June 19th, 2011 at 10:12 AM ^

Sagging is a very normal thing in "urban" (black/white/hispanic/asian basically youth) culture, so someone in a public setting asking him not to sag must have sounded ridiculous to him as it does to me since I'm young and black too. Because of this, his surprised reaction might have looked defiant. Imaging if someone told you to, I dunno, button up a shirt you hadn't buttoned all the way up or something like that. I mean, you would expect that from your teacher or your boss, not a flight attendendant. Besides, even if he was being defiant, I didn't know planes had a dress code different from any other public setting. Are they really authorized to arrest someone if he doesn't take fashion advice? Don't know the full story here, maybe his ass (not boxers) was showing?

coastal blue

June 19th, 2011 at 2:28 PM ^

The pants were below the buttocks, which some people - say you have a little girl on the plane - might consider offensive. 

I'm sure that there is truth to both sides of the issue, but I think this is more an abuse of power than a race issue. 

In my life, I remember walking to the register at Wal-Mart to buy a 12 pack of beer. The cashier tells me that my ID is fake and that she will not serve to a minor who has already been drinking. The ID was real and I hadn't had a drop. I argued with her and she threatened to call the cops. I asked to talk to her manager, who repeated the cashier's line. I argued for another minute or so before storming out. People just dig in when it comes to an argument even if they are wrong and it gets blown out of proportion.

I'm sure that the kid thought it was a ridiculous request and was defiant. Depending on the level of "sag", perhaps he was justified. But that probably set off the airline employees who then felt disrespected and wanted to prove a point and took it too far. 

Could race have been an issue? Maybe. But as in most cases, I think that is just the issue that will make for the most read headlines rather than the actual issue.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:00 PM ^

It would be interesting to see the conversation between him and the flight attendant. Obviously we caught the tail end of the exchange, but from what I see, US Airways may soon have a PR problem on their hands.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:02 PM ^

That's what I think too. It's their plane, and they can kick him off of it, but this video makes them look awfully stupid for doing so. Unless there was a pretty serious issue with the flight attendant before this video was shot that they can tell, this doesn't look good for them.


June 18th, 2011 at 11:13 PM ^

I'm old, I'm caucasian, and think sagging is stupid.  In other words, taking human nature into account, I have every reason to side with the airline on this one.  Everything, that is, except my sense of what is right and what is wrong.

From the video and from any accounts I have heard or read about so far, I fully believe that a young man's civil rights were violated, and I hope he is able to sue for enough money to buy his own airline.  I'm glad there is video, and I hope the ACLU gets involved.  I'm also glad he "sir'd" the security idiots to death during the verbal exchange.  I hope they are already fired.

Solar Bob

June 19th, 2011 at 3:36 AM ^


Get wronged by a guy on the bottom rung of the cooperate ladder and sue for 100,000 times the value of the damages incurred.  I won't say anything good about US Airways though.  Flying with them is a guaranteed 2 hour delay on the connection in Charlotte.



June 19th, 2011 at 10:39 PM ^

Ever hear of punitive damages??

I hope he sues for every dime he possibly can get and wins the suit.  

If that happens, it'll prevent ridiculous crap like this from happening in the future.

As for the "bottom rung of the corporate ladder" comment, the pilot (or whoever threw him off the plane) was in a decision making capacity and made an awful, awful decision.  That's such a blatantly egregious lack of judgment that it demonstrates a serious lapse in the way US Airways selects employees to function in such a capacity, the guidelines they give those employees in their decision making, or both.

The kid could've been flying home to go to a sibling's birthday party.  Or a funeral for a relative.  Or some sort of other family ocassion that he may have missed due to the airlines asinine behavior.  Or, if he wasn't, it may happen to someone who's in a scenario like that in the future, if an example isn't made of the airline. 

Bottom line:  If you're gonna be an asshole, be prepared fo consequences.  


June 18th, 2011 at 10:18 PM ^

Let the man fly. That was unnecessary. How someone dresses has nothing to do with what kind of person they are. The guy was pleading his case, but they weren't having it. From the conversation it doesn't sound like something serious was said to the flight attendant before the video was rolling. If there was a serious issue ... they would have yanked his ass off the flight without the captain there.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:24 PM ^

Was kicked off a plane a few days ago in detroit for saying the 'What's taking so fucking long to close the overhead compartments?', not to the flight attendants however, but to no one in particular. But the flight attendants still made him leave the plane.

It just seems like a strange coincidence that these two stories happened in the same week.  It makes me think that the flight attendants have become some sort of moral police.


June 18th, 2011 at 11:00 PM ^

Ever since 9/11 the flight attendants think they're gestapo agents. I can understand why TSA might be jumpy at times, but the way some flight attendants try to exert their authority is just ridiculous.

One time, I  accidentally sat one row in front of where I was supposed to and had put my ticket inside my carry on. When the dude that was supposed to seat on the chair I was arrived(late) I stood up and tried to sit where I was supposed to. To my bad luck, some little kid had sat in the chair I was supposed to seat.... The flight attendants came running in like a peloton of drill instructors yelling at me to get my ticket. They were threatening me saying that if I didn't find my ticket within 10 seconds they'd kick me off the plane.... worst experience ever.. they made me feel like I was some sort of terrorist.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:32 PM ^

This is a complete overreaction and a HUGE abuse of authority by the flight crew.  It has nothing to do with passenger safety, and once he sat down he was the furthest thing from a delay or distraction.  Unless there were something that hasn't been reported, this isn't defensible.

I'll be That Guy... I call 'selective treatment based on physical characteristics.'


June 18th, 2011 at 10:33 PM ^

Maybe since I am college aged I view that situation as much more rediculous than an older person. But he seems as respectful and calm as someone can possibly be when trying to be escorted off a plane by police. It seems pretty rediculous that he got kicked off.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:55 PM ^

From the youtube comments (don't know how to block quote):

"As a teammate of Marman's, I've seen him sag his pants everyday. Do I agree with how he wears him no, but as a black male, my pants aren't right on my hips either. I have white teammates that sag the same way Marman does on a daily basis no matter what they're wearing. This all was really unnecessary. He's missing summer school and workouts becuase of,PANTS! Pants? Come on we talkin bout pants.Not a bomb, not a gun, not hazardous chemicals. We talkin bout,PANTS!! Hey America!! Grow Up!!!" -405animal

I have to agree with this guy.  Unless it posed a direct threat to the safety of other passengers, which I don't see how it could have, they went overboard. Someone needs to take these people down a notch. Damned rent-a-cops.


June 18th, 2011 at 11:06 PM ^

Did you happen to read some of the other youtube comments?  Unbelievable the things that some ignorant people will say--attacking this kid's character and making assumptions based on a 3:00 clip where he is nothing but respectful and calm.  I am a mid-30s white male and no one can convinve me that these comments were not racially motivated--and you would be hard pressed to convince me that this incident on the plane was not racially motivated also.


June 18th, 2011 at 10:58 PM ^

"Vic Lee, a reporter for television station KGO in San Francisco, filed a report that was aired Thursday night by KOAT-TV in Albuquerque. Lee said Marman told him he wanted to comply with a flight attendant’s request to hitch up his pants as he boarded the US Airways flight.

“I said `Yes ma’am,’” Marman is quoted as saying. “I tried to pull (his pants) up but I couldn’t because I was carrying two big bags and I was in a line of people all moving fast toward the plane.”

Marman said he boarded the aircraft and pulled up his pants, but that a flight attendant told him to get off the plane. Marman refused, he said, saying he’d done nothing wrong.

Marman said he then was told by a plain-clothes police officer that if he agreed to get off the plane his ticket would be refunded. He agreed and left the aircraft, he said, then was rushed by police, handcuffed, and taken to the San Mateo County Jail.""


June 18th, 2011 at 11:18 PM ^

but he MIGHT be able to sue the pilot for violation of his constitutional rights under 42 U.S.C. 1983.  It is usually reserved for public actors, but liability can extend to private actors when they do stuff typically done by state actors (such as security guards).

Regardless of whether he can sue under 1983, he can probably sue under various state provisions, file complaints with the FAA, and generally make this airline regret the day they hired the guy who doesn't care for saggy pants.


June 20th, 2011 at 3:30 PM ^

I don't know.  That's why I asked (and I'm not sure how it qualifies as "flamebaiting)".  Would the NCAA allow student-athletes to receive cash settlements, or would it feel that they would be profitng from the publicity generated by the fact that they are athletes?  In this case, if he weren't an athlete, we probably would have never heard of this story.  


June 18th, 2011 at 11:01 PM ^

He got HANDCUFFED for this too. Obviously the video isn't everything that happened, but Marman was clearly out of control in the video. Who knows what he was gonna do. One second he's calling the stewardess ma'am and the next he'd probably call her his bitch with that infernal rappy music blaring on his ipod. Thank God the authoritities took all reasonable measures to deal with this...problem.

Mitch Cumstein

June 19th, 2011 at 8:30 AM ^

How is blueinlansing being a racist douche?  Or are you talking about the pilot/flight attendant?  Also, after watching the video, I think as much as racism, this could be a case of some assholes that are bitter about how their lives turned out decided to assert what little authority they had on a young person traveling alone to make them feel like they accomplished something with their lives.


June 19th, 2011 at 8:52 AM ^

No one on this board knows what really happened before the video. As a high school teacher, I have often experienced, from white and black guys, comments similar to what Marman says he said, but with a tone similar to "Screw you, I'll do what I want" in response to simple, polite requests. Now he may or may not have done that, but that tone and continuing along business as usual would irk the airline as it would a teacher.

But even everything was exactly as he said, "racist" is totally the wrong card to play here. Just a couple comments up someone was mentioning about a guy getting kicked off a plane for swearing. One can be anal about their job without being racist. And certainly the comment above isn't racist. Most likely they asked him off the plane bc they perceived him being defiant and disrespectful, whether he was or not. Geez guys, we're starting to look like the part of culture I hate here with these comments.
Let's slow down.


June 19th, 2011 at 9:07 AM ^

As much as you may not want to believe it, race is at the center of the "sagging pants" debate.  Yes, white kids do it too, but it was started in inner city culture, and that is what people relate it to.  The objection is not to seeing people's underwear, because you would get the same reaction if you wore gym shorts under your pants.  The objection is to what people believe baggy pants signify in an individual-- the "screw you" attitude you mentioned above. 

You may not consider it a race issue, but that is exactly what it is. The entire argument against sagging pants began because it scared people who were not used to it.  It's not due to sanitary reasons, or fashion reasons, but rather what the fashion trend represents (or started out representing).

The same pattern applies to rap music.  No one is forcing you to listen to it if you don't like it.  Yet people still argue against it, because it scares them. Nobody wants to ban rap because it isn't "music," but rather the culture that it stemmed from and has grown to represent is something foreign and scary to them.


June 19th, 2011 at 9:12 AM ^

On what was communicated, I don't think this is an issue of baggy pants at all. If he expressed disrespect, even defiance, by dismissing them "on his own terms" (the idea that I'll do what I want and address it when I want) which his statement seems to say it was not, may have been what they perceived. At that point the issue has nothing to do with baggy pants or skirts too short, but only with disrespect.
Idk, cuz I've never tested the limits. When the attendant comes up to me and asks me to shut down my phone or put on my seat belt I do it then and say yes ma'am. I don't say I'll get to it or don't worry about it, and go back to typing. It's as much about seat belts and phones as it is about pants, which is to say, not at all.