OT: US Soccer, Highway Robbery
I know there's an open thread, but, this was such an outrage it deserves it's own thread so everyone can bitch about this horrible atrocity.
Seriously, what the hell was that!?
They took a perfectly legitimate goal, and for no reason whatsoever said, "Nope, doesn't count." Completely ridiculous. Not only did the US not commit a foul, but, there were at least 2 Slovenian players holding ours.
Not only was this an affront to sport, but, will probably once again set back the popularity of soccer in the US. I finally actually started to care about US soccer, but, now I'm like damn, what's the point of even becoming invested in a sport where the result of a game can hinge on something like *that* rather than the performance of the players on the field?
Jim Joyce has a new friend.
Unless this guy comes out with a public apology and says he "kicked the shit out of this call," he doesn't deserve to shine Joyce's shoes.
Jim Joyce? More like Tim Donaghy.
"Gotta get that paper, paper, paper...." Bone Thugz style....
this reminds me of michigan getting robbed from the frozen four.
I don't get why all the refs in every sport are literally destroying all the teams I am rooting for this year. I'm never seen such a stretch of bad reffing across sports in my life.
there's a pattern developing here isn't there.
You know it's bad when broadcasters on multiple continents are calling this dude out., which was just said on World Cup Live.
FIFA does not make its refs available for comment nor are they held responsible for errors in judgements (at least not publically vs. MLB). Additionally, in the match report the ref doesn't have to detail who that last call was on.
Two different sports, I know, but compare two different ref reactions and how things were handled between Jim Joyce and this clown - night and day (now I can understand anybody saying yes, but soccer is way more intense from a fan perspective). Donovan said he wasn't sure how much English he spoke, because when asked non-confrontationally, he refused to explain who the penalty was on.
the more I hear statements and comments from Donovan regarding the incident the more I respect him as great representative of the US at the World Cup. Class act all around.
But we were robbed. In fact, there should have been a penalty shot just for the hold on Bradley if nothing else.
They called that a FOUL on the US? I thought (I don't have audio) that they had erroneously called an offsides! Are you effin' kidding me?!
And how in God's name does no one from Slovenia get a red card in that match? That take down on Cherundolo at around the 65th minute was a blatant hack and was nowhere near the ball.
I thought they called offsides, but the announcers weren't sure what was called, and Bradley wasn't sure either when he was interviewed after the game. That ref was absolutely terrible. I also enjoyed the hand ball and yellow card called on Findley in the 1st half when the ball clearly went straight off his head. That was an awesome comeback by the U.S., but crap like that shouldn't fly. We deserved 3 points.
Not only was that a bullshit yellow, but I think we score there if the ref doesn't blow the whistle. We essentially won 4-2 but the ref took away two of our goals.
Unfortunately, I had to miss the end of this one. Do we know for certain that a foul was called on an American player? From the replays I've seen, it looks as though the ref goes to blow the whistle before the free kick is taken. If this is the case, he probably did so in order to warn the Slovenian players about their holding.
I still think it's a shockingly bad call, but it does explain why the goal was disallowed. If it came after the whistle, it can't stand.
EDIT: Never mind. If this theory is correct, the referee should have at least allowed the free kick to be retaken. However, the fact that the referee is a moron has been well established.
I don't think they called a foul on the US. He didn't call *anything* on anyone which is even more mistifying as to why that goal wasn't counted. But, if he disallowed the goal, it seems like it would have been the case the US did something wrong....yet, it didn't look like it at all....and in fact, if anything, it looked like Slovenia was fouling by holding our players (I don't know much about soccer rules though so I don't know if what Slovenia did there was technically a foul. It looked like it though.) Anyhow, the bottom line is, the goal was disallowed, and no call was made, and if any call should have been made there it should have been against Slovenia, not us, so the whole thing is just completely outrageous.
But on free kicks there usually is a lot of extra curricular going on that isn't called. Somewhat like when people say you could call holding on every play of a football game. If it doesn't effect the play, they usually let it go.
between extra curricular activity and a bear hug. That was a fucking bear hug! If this were any other country, that ref would not be able to come on our soil for fear of his life. As the OP pointed out, this is yet another reason for Americans to hate soccer - the refs have too much control over the outcome of the match. Fucking shame.
For the record, he was alomost as bad for Slovenians as well. he missed a shit ton of calls on them but seemed to try and make up for it by handing out a couple of flakey yellow cards in the second half.
Douchebag. Hope he gets cracked in the head with a vuvu. No. Check that - he might be able to continue reffing after that. Aim for the knees instead.
The shit that was done on that play happens on every free kick in every soccer game. You've clearly never played a game in your life.
No referee in his right mind would call that a penalty in the box in stoppage time on something that is that pussy. If you want an analogy that's like:
1. Calling a foul on a tip in on a last second play to win a game (UM-MSU)
2. Calling a 5m boarding penalty in the last five minutes of a hockey game on a very light board when the player isn't even hurt.
3. Calling a penalty shot in hockey on an iffy iffy penalty
4. Calling Pass Interference in the end zone on a hail mary from behind the 50.
For all of these penalties to occur the calls have to be so egregious that the call would have to be made. If you want to make the argument that no call should have been called I will agree with you, but in that situation you most certainly air on the side of the defense.
That it shouldn't have been a penalty. But that reinforces even further the blantant level of bullshit behind the 'foul' called on the U.S.
Are you kidding me?! I apologize for being a little perturbed you would think this way, maybe it's still too close to the worst call in the Cup.
Sure, excessive pushing and shoving within the last 2 minutes of play is going to happen. Literally BEAR HUGGING someone is completely uncalled for and should always be called as a foul no matter the time, even stoppage time. Dumb. Just dumb. Yes, this is a physical sport. But there is a rule called "obstruction" for a reason. (For those of you playing the home game; Obstruction-Impeding the Progress of an Opponent) Bear hugging to me is blatant obstruction, and yet, our Yanks STILL managed to get a goal. So "The shit that was done on that play happens on every free kick in every soccer game. You've clearly never played a game in your life. " is ridiculous to say. BEar hugging is NOT done on every soccer play. You clearly don't wach enough football. But maybe you do since refs should "err on the side of the defense". Don't worry, the ref did. He sided with the defense SO much he disallowed a goal.
Just heartbreaking.
But I'm going to choose to look at the glass half full. We were down 2-0 at half. We were picking it up at the end of the first and then let in a goal. We could have packed it up then. We didn't, we came back at got a point.
The ref was bad, but I'm going to try to look at it as a great comeback for a draw.
its better to take the draw as it is. going into halftime it looked like all was lost, but hey we came back. and refereeing is part of the game just like any game. yes it was unlucky but its better than a loss
if the United States would have played like that in the first half, then the game would not have come down to that call because they would have destroyed slovenia. The US was robbed, but they have to stop needing 30-50 minutes of game time to wake up and play their game...
I have never really bought into this line of reasoning. What happened did happen and what "should have" happened didn't. On the margin, the bad call was costly, in the realm of reality and not fantasy.
In the realm of reality, their shitty first half cost them by putting them down 2 and having to fight back. That was more costly than the bad call in the 87th minute IMO.
No.
Just no, plain and simple.
"In the realm of reality", as you say, the US scored 3 goals, and Slovenia 2.
One of our goals was not counted by the official for - literally - no apparent reason. The outcome of what actually happened in the game (as opposed to hypotheticals like "if we had played better in the first half) was directly changed as a result of horrible officiating. That's the bottom line, I don't know how you can brush that aside with somethig like, "Oh, well, if we would have played better." The fact is we DID play better. (We scored more goals than they did)
How you can say that the shitty first half was more costly than a goal we actually scored not being counted is really baffling.
I don't buy then theory that the U.S. should have played a perfect game and therefore not needed the last goal to win. That's BS. At this level, every game is a challenge and you play as well as you can and make adjustments and sometimes it takes a sub or two to find the right mix. These games are typically decided by a single goal, so expecting them to play at a level where they should have a 2+ goal lead is completely unrealistic.
At any rate, the U.S. played well enough to win by 1 goal and that goal was taken away...I'm still not exactly sure why. Did they ever officially state the reason?
In the press conferecne and interviews after the game both Bob Bradley and Landon Donovan said that the ref refused to tell them the call both after he made it, and after the game.
My favorite part of the whole thing was when the British commentator said that he as a neutral observer that the ref was a nightmare. Alexi Lalas also had a good quote at the end when he said the guy was a total disgrace
I understand your point but you are essentially saying that teams need to dominate so reffing is not an issue. If they don't play at the top of their game the entire game, they cannot complain about whatever happens. I understand as a competitor you want that perspective but realistically, that just a bad excuse for terrible officiating.
In most sports, I'll buy that argument to a degree. But not in soccer where a bad call can put a goal directly on the board or take one off in a game that sees minimal scoring to begin with, or put a team up a man for over an hour.
what's the point of even becoming invested in a sport where the result of a game can hinge on something like *that* rather than the performance of the players on the field?
I've been asking myself this question a lot recently ... mainly since March 28th. Quite honestly, I haven't found a good answer yet.
Bad calls happen in every sport.
They rarely have such an impact on the final outcome of the game. you here it all the time in other sports, especially basketball, that the refs don't want to decide the game. This was an occurence of a referee deciding the outcome to the game.
an extra second being held on the game clock to allow the home team to score a winning touchdown?
Or a perfect game pitched up until the last out when a ref completely blows a call and spoils it?
These kind of things don't just happen in soccer...
I agree. I never said "these kind of things" only happen in soccer. My "March 28th" reference was to a hockey game.
The reason I quoted the OP was because what he said could be said about any sport. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't know why the hell I bother to watch any sports anymore. Being a sports fan has brought me a hell of a lot more grief than happiness lately ... and this is just another log on that fire.
more than to you specifically.
It does kind of seem like refs are blowing more important calls these days, it isn't going to make me stop watching, but it definitely raises my blood pressure.
Wow, that was a terrible call. Who cares about a glass half full and that we came back. You play the full 90 minutes. That should've been a win and the ref blew it.
should care that we got the tie. The whole point of the first round is to advance and a tie makes it very likely that is what will happen. I agree that goal should have counted. I also think we would have scored if the ref didn't blow his whistle on Findley for the (incorrect) hand ball. That sucks, but a tie is still enough to advance, so the comeback was excellent.
They are the weakest team in the group. If we beat them by two, we advance pretty much whatever happens in England's last two games. If we beat them by one we advance if Slovenia or England wins when they play each other. If we beat Algeria by one and England and Slovenia tie, I am not sure what the next tie breaker is.
in that case we would need to beat Algeria by more than whoever wins the England/Slovenia beat the loser by, or at least by the same, not sure what the tiebreaker would be in that case....overall number of goals?
Yes, total goals. We root for anyone to win the England/Slovenia match (either one winning is fine for the US's advancement), and if there is a draw, the lower scoring the better for us. A 0-0 draw means any US win over Algeria puts them through.
Basically the US needs to score at least two against Algeria to feel good. A 2-0 win puts the US through no matter what. A 2-1 win puts the US through unless England and Slovenia draw at 2 goals or more.
If the US and Slovenia end up tied for the second qualifying spot and they score an equal number of goals in their next match, it will go to the drawing of lots. We can't leave it to chance like that.
Root for a low-scoring England/Algeria game. A 1-0 England win today still means England will need to beat Slovenia to guarantee qualification -- they would be behind on total goals, and a draw with Slovenia coupled with a US win over Algeria could see England out on the total goals tiebreaker. And we want England playing hard in that last game.
They just played England to a 1-1 tie.
We could easily lose or tie if we give away a half the way we did today.
I agree that the comeback was excellent. I just don't think we should be satisfied with it. We came in as the favorites, and though we didn't play well in the first half, we made the proper adjustments and did exactly what we needed to do win the game. Yeah, we can still get out of the group but, damn, a win today would've made life a lot less complicated.
Either way, let's just pray that we beat Algeria decidedly. We need to get out of the group.
I may have overeacted to the "who cares" but I totally agree with you here. The US needs to play the way they did in the middle of the first half and the whole second half for the rest of the tournament. And as much as I like Onyewu, I think he has to sit. He is just not able to run like he used to. I think by seeing the subs play in the second half we have gotten a better sense of our best 11, so that's good.
....by that ridiculous call. I don't know who he focused on, but that was as the Brits say, shambolic.
OTOH, who can say they've never seen an instance of poor officiating determine the outcome of a football, baseball, basketball, or hockey game?
Hello, Michigan's loss to Miami in the hockey regionals comes to mind right off the top of my head.
How about non-soccer fans just realize that like in all sports, soccer officials are fallable and their competency is often called into question by fans and players alike. Seems to me that's some common ground to build off of.
Robbed doesn't come to mind...
Raped does.
Damn.
I agree that we were robbed on what should have been a goal. At the same time, I didn't feel like the refs were calling the game too unfairly. It just sucks that a bad call happened when it did.
Hoepfully it doesn't temper your or anyone else's excitement for US soccer. Bad calls impacting games happen all the time in sports (Galaraga's perfect game, granted the Tigers still won; the Crable call in 2006; etc.). It's part of what lets us get so excited about the game.
Donovan just said it was the referee's first World Cup match...
Hopefully it's his last as well.