OT: US News Grad School Rankings
UM did very well in all the rankings:
MBA: #11 (Wharton, Harvard and Stanford tied for #1)
Education: #8 (John Hopkins #1)
Engineering: #8 (MIT #1)
Law: #10 (Yale #1)
Medicine (Research): #12 (Harvard #1)
Medicine (Primary Care): #8 (Washington #1)
Well done by Michigan, very few schools are ranked in the top across all categories.
Big Firm %, Class of 2012
UPenn: 66.7%
Columbia: 64.2%
NYU: 59.5%
Cornell: 57.9%
UChicago: 56.3%
UCBerkeley: 53.8%
Harvard: 53.6%
Duke: 51.1%
Northwestern: 49.2%
Virginia: 47.8%
Stanford: 47%
University of Michigan: 43.3%
Georgetown: 31.1%
Yale: 32%
Anyone wondering why Harvard, Stanford, and Yale do less well than expected should know that many of their students (especially at Yale) do equally prestigious Federal Clerkships/Legal Academia/other awesome things.
Michigan really only places better than Georgetown out of the T14
Michigan has a really high number of people who are looking to do things other than big law.
March 11th, 2014 at 10:07 PM ^
Stats are kind of screwy to be honest. Doesn't Michigan have a lot of kids go to fed clerkships? Why is that not explained in your disclaimer? If I clerk, then work at a big law job in year 2 or 3, then am I added back to the percentage (or am I still discounted because I had the good fortune to land a fed clerkship)?
Michigan, in my mind, is a 5-10 law school, year after year.
March 11th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^
(Fed Clerkships using 2012 data)
Yale: 34.7%
Stanford: 28.2%
Harvard: 17.8%
UChicago: 14.4%
Virgina: 14.3%
Duke: 12.9%
Upenn: 10.3%
Michigan: 8.5%
Columbia: 7.9%
UCberkeley: 6.7%
Northwestern: 64.4%
Cornell: 6.3%
NYU: 5.6%
Georgetown 3.7%
(http://www.lstscorereports.com/)
Between this data set and the big law data set, the biggest takeaway is lol Gerogetown
March 11th, 2014 at 10:53 PM ^
I would also be curious as to actual #'s. As you may know, Michigan is a large law school, so it's probably harder to pull the same %'s given the fixed number of fed clerkship spots.
March 11th, 2014 at 11:42 PM ^
March 11th, 2014 at 11:53 PM ^
I'm not that curious! : )
It's not particularly accurate to say this from a practical standpoint. Even if it's true in the aggregate, the VAST majority of law hiring trends are state (and even more accurately market) specific. There are a number of markets that are absolutely tearing it up right now. The problem is, generally, that you need to have gone to school in one of those states/markets to take advantage (plus, people generally don't move too much after they finish law school).
March 11th, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^
And I don't think either one of us would say going to a top school in those regions (or a top X school with national reach) is a bad move, particularly with a scholarship
It's all the other schools that are the problem. Florida doesn't need 12 schools. Every school in Michigan except U of M (and maybe Wayne) does a horrendous job of getting their grads any kind of job, let alone a legal one.
March 11th, 2014 at 11:09 PM ^
Michigan Law is the best law school ever. End of conversation. Thanks. Have a good night.
Sincerely,
UMLS '05, smartest choice I've ever made in my life.
There are 50 schools that are in the "Top 50 (technically 49, I guess). If two schools are tied at 22, then the next school will be ranked 24. That's how ties work in school rankings.
But these rankings mean next to nothing. It's the top 14 + regionals. Ultimately, you go where you have connections. If you've got connections in Washington, then you should go to Washington, not some random higher-ranked school like GW or Emory.
As for Michigan's ranking, I'm surprised they didn't fall a tad more.
March 11th, 2014 at 10:17 PM ^
If you make an objective analysis based on subjective criteria, then it often leads to ties.
can someone please explain to me what on earth is the difference between med school (research) and med school (primary care)? if i wanted to be a doctor (it's probably a little late now, but bear with me), which ranking would i look to?
Are you looking to cure cancer, or are you looking to provide care to patients?
Research rankings are more or less based on the amount of grant money schools get from the National Institute of Health. More "important" research = more prestige --> more money, which is why the list is topped by schools like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc. The primary care rankings measure how good of a job schools do at preparing students for specialties like Family Medicine and Pediatrics, so they're more service-oriented.
thanks. but if you go to med school at harvard and then decide to become a PCP, it's unlikely that you'll be received less favorably than a candidate from the university of washington, the #1 ranked primary care school, right?
You wouldn't be received less favorably. You can get into any specialty and do well from any US medical school. And, you know, Harvard is Harvard.
was't true when i graduated and i doubt it is true now. i live in the SF bay region and came from UM class of 83, never left. Got into a good residency and fellowship in cardiology, both because i graduated from UM. Not many MSU grads here ( don' t know a single one out here) but lotsa top 10 or 20 med school grads. You want to get into a program where you want to live and where people want to live the competition is brutal. No way would i be living out here from MSU or WSU or OSU ( did know a OSU grad but he was older and retired out here after many years in the military. He paid his dues before landing here ) I'm sure you could get into a good training program from MSU med school but it would be very hard and you would have to be very special. People would then ask why you wasted your time there when you could have done better
March 12th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
I think you meant to agree with him. He was saying that going to a prestigious Medical School was as good, if not better, then going to a highly-ranked PCP school. You seem to be saying the same thing.
Other UM Grad program rankings.
Nursing #6 - LINK
Chemistry #15 - LINK
Internal Medicine #8 - LINK
Pharmacy #7 - LINK
Psychology #4 - LINK
Math #13 - LINK
Public Health #4 - LINK
Library Programs #4 - LINK
Social Work #1 - LINK
Statistics #12 - LINK
Economics #13 - LINK
Education #8 - LINK
Computer Science #13 - LINK
Health Care Management #1 - LINK
#LeadersAndBest
Political Science #4 - LINK
Physics: #11
Not bad, although probably a tad overrated because of Gordon "I Predicted the Higgs Mass, really, I promise I did" Kane still garnering WAY more prestige than he deserves. We're #2 in the B1G behind the Illini at #9, which strikes me as about right. They're legit.
March 11th, 2014 at 11:44 PM ^
Oh, so that's the rivalry Illinios keeps talking about.
You're right; it must be. And to think it was sitting there right in front of me this whole time.
The daily circle jerk thread
general studies tho??
#1 in general studies. Everyone knows that. We invented the field.
Now there is an interesting idea….a master’s program in General Studies. We have a fair number of student-athletes at Michigan that graduate before their playing eligibility is expired. It seems they are clustering in Master’s program in Social Work. Why not create a Master’s degree in General Studies so they can have the freedom to choose the classes that would best suit their personal needs?
It's a high enough ranking to have some confidence, but not over-confidence. I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder rather than feeling entitled, and that bodes well for the upcoming season.
Now let's go out there and engineer some things!
The problem is not that people look to stay in Michigan. That is a small portion that generally does well on the employment front. The problem (at least in regard to statistics) is that the law school self selects a higher proportion of public interest / government leaning people. This leads to 1) poor employment given government budget issues and 2) a higher proportion of anti-social holier than thou fartsniffers that can't tuck in their shirt and shine in an interview.
Signed,
MLaw Grad in Big Law
However, I've met my share of big types who are equally anti-social. Sometimes more so. I don't think PI or big law people have a higher percentage of these types.
March 11th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
is, to what degree is Michigan Law's slightly worse placement due to less effective placement/reputation, or to self-selection into the less sexy PI jobs?
March 11th, 2014 at 11:02 PM ^
March 11th, 2014 at 10:00 PM ^
I disagree. I barely remember any hippies in the law school. It's a pretty straight edge place. Most of the kids worked hard to get good grades to get good jobs, etc. It's also a very affluent student body (and I'm a believer that wealth begets wealth; one way or another).
if it isnt ARWU, QS or Times Higher it doesn't matter
#4 in Political Science. We're slipping.
20 years of consulting with Federal agencies, almost everywhere I go, there is a Rackham social science grad somewhere at the table (besides me). Last week I was at DHS, of the nine parties, four had ties to Michigan. The one MSU economist said "goddammit, I hate blue and gold!" To which I replied, "it's maize, and we're equally fond of green, the color of envy and of that team we beat twice this season."
March 11th, 2014 at 10:12 PM ^
How did we do in the other grad programs like Pharmacy, dental, etc?
March 11th, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^
I have a good friend from college who coined an inimitable phrase that applies strongly to this thread.
Congratulations all! You are members of the "Michigan Self-Dick Sucking Club." This affliction affects students at every fancy pants university.
Apropos to nothing, the same buddy gave me his ID and allowed to party at Rick's from age 19. I've never recovered.
That means we are also likely #1 in length and #1 in flexibility...at least top 10 in each.
#FancyPantsAtAnkles
#LeadersAndBest
Did he also show you how to copy text directly from a Word file and add some fancy highlighter action?