OT: US News Grad School Rankings

Submitted by BlueCE on March 11th, 2014 at 6:02 PM

UM did very well in all the rankings:

MBA: #11 (Wharton, Harvard and Stanford tied for #1)

Education: #8 (John Hopkins #1)

Engineering: #8 (MIT #1)

Law: #10 (Yale #1)

Medicine (Research): #12 (Harvard #1)

Medicine (Primary Care): #8 (Washington #1)

Well done by Michigan, very few schools are ranked in the top across all categories.



March 11th, 2014 at 8:13 PM ^

Big Firm %, Class of 2012

UPenn: 66.7%

Columbia: 64.2%

NYU: 59.5%

Cornell: 57.9%

UChicago: 56.3%

UCBerkeley: 53.8%

Harvard: 53.6%

Duke: 51.1%

Northwestern: 49.2%

Virginia: 47.8% 

Stanford: 47%

University of Michigan: 43.3%

Georgetown: 31.1%

Yale: 32%


Anyone wondering why Harvard, Stanford, and Yale do less well than expected should know that many of their students (especially at Yale) do equally prestigious Federal Clerkships/Legal Academia/other awesome things.

Michigan really only places better than Georgetown out of the T14


March 11th, 2014 at 10:07 PM ^

Stats are kind of screwy to be honest.  Doesn't Michigan have a lot of kids go to fed clerkships?  Why is that not explained in your disclaimer?  If I clerk, then work at a big law job in year 2 or 3, then am I added back to the percentage (or am I still discounted because I had the good fortune to land a fed clerkship)?

Michigan, in my mind, is a 5-10 law school, year after year. 


March 11th, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^

(Fed Clerkships using 2012 data)

Yale: 34.7%

Stanford: 28.2%

Harvard: 17.8%

UChicago: 14.4%

Virgina: 14.3%

Duke: 12.9%

Upenn: 10.3%

Michigan: 8.5%

Columbia: 7.9%

UCberkeley: 6.7%

Northwestern: 64.4%

Cornell: 6.3%

NYU: 5.6%

Georgetown 3.7%



Between this data set and the big law data set, the biggest takeaway is lol Gerogetown


Clarence Beeks

March 11th, 2014 at 9:07 PM ^

"they collectively graduate 50k students per year when there are only around 25k legal job openings each year"

It's not particularly accurate to say this from a practical standpoint. Even if it's true in the aggregate, the VAST majority of law hiring trends are state (and even more accurately market) specific. There are a number of markets that are absolutely tearing it up right now. The problem is, generally, that you need to have gone to school in one of those states/markets to take advantage (plus, people generally don't move too much after they finish law school).


March 11th, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^

And I don't think either one of us would say going to a top school in those regions (or a top X school with national reach) is a bad move, particularly with a scholarship

It's all the other schools that are the problem. Florida doesn't need 12 schools. Every school in Michigan except U of M (and maybe Wayne) does a horrendous job of getting their grads any kind of job, let alone a legal one. 

Clarence Beeks

March 11th, 2014 at 11:09 PM ^

From a perception standpoint, I agree about the 12 schools in Florida, but the fact is, law is a demand profession in Florida. That's with 12 ABA accredited schools and almost 4,000 new Bar admittees each year. That said, I would expect several of those 12 schools to not exist, or exist in a significantly different format, in a few years. Only 5 of those 12 schools made the US News top 100 (FSU, UF, Miami, Stetson, and FIU).


March 11th, 2014 at 7:52 PM ^

There are 50 schools that are in the "Top 50 (technically 49, I guess). If two schools are tied at 22, then the next school will be ranked 24. That's how ties work in school rankings.


But these rankings mean next to nothing. It's the top 14 + regionals. Ultimately, you go where you have connections. If you've got connections in Washington, then you should go to Washington, not some random higher-ranked school like GW or Emory. 


As for Michigan's ranking, I'm surprised they didn't fall a tad more. 


March 11th, 2014 at 6:47 PM ^

can someone please explain to me what on earth is the difference between med school (research) and med school (primary care)?  if i wanted to be a doctor (it's probably a little late now, but bear with me), which ranking would i look to?


March 11th, 2014 at 7:04 PM ^

Research rankings are more or less based on the amount of grant money schools get from the National Institute of Health.  More "important" research = more prestige --> more money, which is why the list is topped by schools like Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc.  The primary care rankings measure how good of a job schools do at preparing students for specialties like Family Medicine and Pediatrics, so they're more service-oriented.


March 12th, 2014 at 1:27 AM ^

was't true when i graduated and i doubt it is true now. i live in the SF bay region and came from UM class of 83, never left. Got into a good residency and fellowship in cardiology, both because i graduated from UM. Not many MSU grads here ( don' t know a single one out here)  but lotsa top 10 or 20 med school grads. You want to get into a program where you want to live and where people want to live the competition is brutal. No way would i be living out here from MSU or WSU or OSU  ( did know a OSU grad but he was older and retired out here after many years in the military. He paid his dues before landing here ) I'm sure you could get into a good training program from MSU med school but it would be very hard and you would have to be very special. People would then ask why you wasted your time there when you could have done better


March 12th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^

I think you meant to agree with him.  He was saying that going to a prestigious Medical School was as good, if not better, then going to a highly-ranked PCP school.  You seem to be saying the same thing.


March 12th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^

It is certainly easier to get into a top residency from UM than MSU. That being said I know first hand of several Derm, Orthopods, and Rad Onc docs from msu chm who subsequently matched at elite residencies in these pretty elite sub specialties. They all had very high board scores, aoa, etc. Several are in Cali, NYC, etc.


March 11th, 2014 at 9:03 PM ^

Medicine is different than many other fields. Prestige still means something, so it's not completely irrelevant...but as compared to business or law, you can be a highly desirable candidate for any residency program/job coming out of any med school in the country based off of board scores, rotation grades, and interviews.


March 11th, 2014 at 9:29 PM ^

Physics: #11

Not bad, although probably a tad overrated because of Gordon "I Predicted the Higgs Mass, really, I promise I did" Kane still garnering WAY more prestige than he deserves. We're #2 in the B1G behind the Illini at #9, which strikes me as about right. They're legit.


March 13th, 2014 at 9:59 PM ^

Now there is an interesting idea….a master’s program in General Studies. We have a fair number of student-athletes at Michigan that graduate before their playing eligibility is expired. It seems they are clustering in Master’s program in Social Work. Why not create a Master’s degree in General Studies so they can have the freedom to choose the classes that would best suit their personal needs?

Space Coyote

March 11th, 2014 at 7:40 PM ^

It's a high enough ranking to have some confidence, but not over-confidence. I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder rather than feeling entitled, and that bodes well for the upcoming season.

Now let's go out there and engineer some things!


March 11th, 2014 at 8:01 PM ^

The problem is not that people look to stay in Michigan.  That is a small portion that generally does well on the employment front.  The problem (at least in regard to statistics) is that the law school self selects a higher proportion of public interest / government leaning people.  This leads to 1) poor employment given government budget issues and 2) a higher proportion of anti-social holier than thou fartsniffers that can't tuck in their shirt and shine in an interview.


MLaw Grad in Big Law

Clarence Beeks

March 11th, 2014 at 11:02 PM ^

With how competitive the recruitment environment is, it absolutely makes a difference on the employer side, which effectively reduces opportunities for subsequent classes. If an employer experiences a school as not interested in placing it's graduates in their type of employment, there are more than enough other schools who are glad to have them on campus.


March 11th, 2014 at 10:00 PM ^

I disagree.  I barely remember any hippies in the law school.  It's a pretty straight edge place.  Most of the kids worked hard to get good grades to get good jobs, etc.  It's also a very affluent student body (and I'm a believer that wealth begets wealth; one way or another).


March 11th, 2014 at 9:04 PM ^

#4 in Political Science. We're slipping. 

20 years of consulting with Federal agencies, almost everywhere I go, there is a Rackham social science grad somewhere at the table (besides me). Last week I was at DHS, of the nine parties, four had ties to Michigan. The one MSU economist said "goddammit, I hate blue and gold!" To which I replied, "it's maize, and we're equally fond of green, the color of envy and of that team we beat twice this season." 


March 11th, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^

I have a good friend from college who coined an inimitable phrase that applies strongly to this thread.

Congratulations all! You are members of the "Michigan Self-Dick Sucking Club." This affliction affects students at every fancy pants university.

Apropos to nothing, the same buddy gave me his ID and allowed to party at Rick's from age 19. I've never recovered.