OT: UMass Basketball Player becomes first openly Gay D1 player
Massachusetts starting sophomore Derrick Gordon just came out publicly, he becomes the first openly gay athlete in D1 Mens Basketball:
"I just didn't want to hide anymore, in any way," Gordon told ESPN. "I didn't want to have to lie or sneak. I've been waiting and watching for the last few months, wondering when a Division I player would come out, and finally I just said, 'Why not me?'"
[Ed-S: I'm going to try allowing discussion, though this has a lot of potential for politics. Remain civil and respectful of others' and their opinions.]
Take a nice walk through certain areas of Chicago or Detroit and see how much of your white privilege you make it out with and then get back to me.
I assure you there are plenty of people who are killed each year in this country due to their race, religion and ethnicity by all types of people and in a variety of different areas. If your point is you are unlikely to be attacked for being straight, you are probably correct. But every person runs the risk of being attacked or killed for who they are and that risk can rise or fall depending on where you are.
Homophobic attacks get blown up because that is a Big Issue right now. Thus the homophobia seems far worse than it is. The actual amount of gay people being attacked or killed for being gay is incredibly small.
In Michigan, for example, it's still legal to fire someone for being gay.
And that's a fair point. EiD's point about violence is just him jumping on a cause and making some victims more special than others because of who they prefer sexually.
But neither is really about the topic at hand, which is whether or not its actually newsworthy for an athlete to talk to a reporter and announce he's gay. I don't believe that this is A. Necessary or B. Particularly helpful, unless you're a member of the media.
Gay people and athletes would be much better served to simply live their lives and be themselves. "Come out" (for lack of a better term), by bringing your date to the ESPY's, don't be invited there just because you're gay. Come out by holding his/her hand in public, not by wearing a #IMGAY!!!! T-shirt. Come out by having your boyfriend/husband/wife in the locker room with you after you win a championship. Be a part of things while being yourself, don't make yourself a story just for your sexual preference.
Actor Matt Bomer lived his life as a gay man and never "came out". He just thanked his husband and his kids at an awards show one time. That's how its done. That's real progress. That's normalizing gay within in a society that hasn't - as Seth points out - hasn't 100% accepted gay people as part of society.
But its easier (more lucrative? and receive more attention?) to just say "I'm Gay!!" and receive 90% approval from the media while facing only a lukewarm backlash from the opposition (and knowing any backlash you do receive will be blown up 10x what it actually is to paint you as a victim and lend you even more support for your "bravery").
But the acting industry is a little more gay-friendly than professional sports.
There is also an extent to which "coming out" provides some protection; if Michael Sam privately told all of the teams, "I'm gay," they can blackball him without any public cost. By coming out, he protects himself somewhat from the 'old straight boys club.'
But you're only saying that because by and large the media has painted the professional sports world as a homophobic place.
As I replied to Seth below, we've seen gay athletes play sports in this country with hardly any backlash. We know that in the past, there were plenty of players whose teammates knew they were gay and simply did not care. For the most part, former players who have spoken out on this issue have said "Yeah, we know X Player was gay and no one gave a damn". Its already happened. The moment is already over.
1. "The Media" is a pretty big place, and we don't really all talk to each other about how to portray things. Right or wrong, what's covered by "the media" is a reflection of peoples' interests, not some great collusion. Newsflash: people like to read about sex. A lot!
2. My experience talking with big-time athletes has led me to believe--with the caveat that each place is different--that a football or basketball or hockey locker room is generally way more homophobic than most places. College locker rooms especially. They're also notorious places for raunchy sexual details concerning women, and all other manner of talk that isn't considered appropriate in most places. The military too. Comraderie and mutual trust has an effect of loosening the tongue, and all sorts of attitudes that aren't allowed in polished public society creep out. Also Newsflash: young men like to talk about sex. A lot!
3. We've seen one NBA player and one NCAA football player come out before the NFL draft. I'm not saying every athlete in a new sport who comes out should get a day named for him, but to think it doesn't even warrant mention in the national press that the first D-I basketball player is gay. I mean, we discuss a lot less interesting shit than that on the front page, like Michigan's spring game for example.
I bet you $1.35 that the next 15 male athletes that come out in the major U.S. sports (including D-1 college football and basketball) make the front page of the Huffington Post. I'll bet you a further $1.35 that at least 12 of them make the discussion on this board.
Its not that I don't think it warrants mention, its that I think the person doing it is laughably over-praised and that the idea of saying "I'm Gay!!!" for attention, career advancement, etc. is somehow a big deal when it comes to gay progress is kind of silly.
Your argument comes pretty close to arguing that gay people should stay closeted. I realize you're not quite saying that, but again, you're coming close. Any why? Why bother to comment at all? It's not hard to guess. It's very similar to the "I don't see color" argument (that in fact preserves racism) in which people say we shouldn't talk about race b/c that makes racism exist.
The straight white male who says that he is equally likely to be a victim of bigotry - and violence rooted in bigotry - is a unique type of factually-challenged wimp in our era. The beauty of the argument is that it makes those delivering it seem so very small.
Ah yes, accuse me of homophobia because you've lost the argument. Well done.
There's a lot more to say here, but since you're veering off into whatever it is you learned over at Gawker today, I'm gonna bow out. I'll let you get back to licking Lindy West's feet, my guilt-ridden beta male friend.
We're talking in circles (and you basically just re-emphasized the poor point you made earlier, while your Greenberg example falls more in line with my Bomer example), so there's nothing more to say.
Also, its pretty damn homophobic to say that males who style hair aren't normal dudes. Who are you to decide what's normal dude behavior, you heterosexual white male? How dare you try and place gender roles from your seat of power? You reek of privilege. If you have any sense of decency, you'll bolivian yourself.
"EiD's point about violence is just him jumping on a cause and making some victims more special than others because of who they prefer sexually."
I don't even know where to begin. Find me a single link to an article about a person being attacked for being straight. Do you really not see how ridiculous it is to equate being straight and gay in the US? It's hard to tell. Yes, all people face violence. But, when it comes to sexual orientation, only gays face it because of their sexual orientation.
Find me an article like this about straight people: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/gay-bashing-attacks-rise-city-article-1.1430370 It's an article about gay-bashing in 2013 - in New York City. The NYPD investigated 68 gay-bashing incidents in 2013 between January and August alone. A guy was shot to death in May of this year for being gay in Greenwich Village (not exactly a white-guy-goes-to-a-ghetto story). http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/gay-bashing-victim-mark-carson-laid-rest-article-1.1357786
Show me any group of people singled out those in the above links for sexuality, race, gender, religious reasons. If you can, I will almost certainly agree that a person from that group making it to D1 college basketball is a big deal.
“I didn’t hear anything racial, but it’s hard to tell everything that was being said because people were all yelling at the same time. I know some people were screaming, ‘You hit my cousin,’ and ‘You hit my nephew,’ but I didn’t hear anyone say ‘You white so-and-so’ or anything like that.”
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140408/METRO01/304080026#ixzz2yPTXx5GU
The police are investigating if this is a hate crime for a reason...
...the white man really has it tough. I sure hope mean ol' Mr. Scrooge won't make us work on Christmas.
Look, I'm sorry my article contradicts your whatever insulated view of the world you have (you live in Ohio after all, so I guess I can't blame you). I have lived in several countries and have traveled to more places than most, and I can't even count the amount of times I have been threatened because of my race (I'm white BTW), my nationality, or my religion. I even got harassed for being straight while hanging out in boystown in Chicago (although this only happened once). It's unfortunate that you haven't ventured out to experience these things to provide you with more informed and true perspective of bigotry - because I assure you it's everywhere. Instead you like reply like child, "ooh, I guess it sucks to be white". It doesn't suck to be white, nor black, nor gay. It does suck to be harassed for these things regardless of historical context. It seems to me that you believe (and I could be wrong) that being harassed for being white is somehow ok and not a big deal. I disagree. I was raised to treat everyone equally and treat each harassment as such.
A lot of people have questioned why it's a big deal, a question that's increasingly relevent the more barriers are broken down.
To deny it any consequence is to deny either the prevalence of anti-gay sentiment in American culture, or deny the prevalence of gay people in America. To the former, note that EVERY state and U.S. territory has had either a statute or a constitutional amendment concerning gay marriage (for or against) on a ballot in the last 4 years except Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Mariana Islands. Nationally, 34% of Americans oppose allowing gay or lesbian couples to adopt a child (another 9% are "unsure"). Sixteen percent think businesses should be allowed to refuse service to gays and lesbians.
To the latter, 3.5% of Americans currently identify as homosexual, 8.2% say they've tried it, and 11% have admitted some same-sex attraction. If homosexuality is random, it is highly likely on a team of 115 players that someone is gay. Given these odds, and the number of people who have actually come out among thousands of Division I athletes, it is an almost certainty that there are gay players who remain in the closet, and that they're doing so because they have a reasonable expectation of being ostracised for it, because over a third of Americans apparently would ostracise them for it.
When there's a first for a sport, that's still big news. Before Larry Doby and Roy Campanella and Willie Mays can be baseball players, someone has to be Jackie Robinson. Derrick Gordon is now and shall be for the rest of his career known as the gay guy who plays basketball. The next guy will be a basketball player who happens to be gay.
In basketball terms, social acceptance of homosexuality may have built a 15-point cushion, but there's still a lot of time on the clock, and every score still remains relevant to the outcome, whether it's a layup or a dagger three.
It's not just some people, and--this is important--it's not just bad people.
Over the last few years I've been in contact with more and more high-level athletes, and occassionally discussed their feelings on gay teammates, or gay opponents. None of those I've brought it up to personally give a damn, but they all admitted they have a lot of teammates who have very strong anti-gay feelings. Specifically, there are lots of athletes who used Christianity as their ladder out of terrible situations, because there is no institution in the country that does more good in the terrible places in America. As a consequence, there are lots of athletes who carry very orthodox Christian beliefs with regard to their definition of sexual morality. That orthodoxy was for many years essentially unopposed within major sports, but now it is being heavily challenged by society's growing sensitivity toward oppression within its ranks. In every locker room--and I guarantee you Michigan's is included--this is a thing.
Regardless of how you feel about it, the more players in more heavily-watched sports who are openly gay, the less of a target any openly gay player in any revenue sport will be, and the easier it will be for other gay athletes to come out. Whether you're for this or against this is up to your political feelings. The fact of this social shift and how it interacts with sports is undeniably a big deal.
My point is that even the people who are against the idea of a gay athlete or homosexuality in general aren't going to do anything about it. They may voice some concerns, but that is all.
Jason Collins is playing in the NBA. He says he suffered a few comments and nothing more. No one cares months later. Micheal Sam played an entire season at Missouri where I'm sure players on the other team knew something of it and there were no incidents. Robbie Rogers has been playing soccer without incident in the MLS. The fear of the backlash is completely overblown, especially when you have 90% of the media on your side. For the most part, the people who may disagree with a player's sexual orientation do not care enough to instigate any kind of trouble.
Beyond this, players who may not have been out to the media have been playing sports and been open with their teammates for years.
Again, this is only a big deal to the media who get to gush about bravery. I will point out, you are part of the media.
Yep, actually I saw the same weakness in my argument and was editing my response to cover it when you responded. Apologies for altering the original--go read the 2nd paragraph through the basketball analogy.
Or just read the basketball analogy.
In all seriousness, I'm happy for this player and all future openly gay athletes. I look forward to a day when it doesn't take courage to be who you are. People can debate if who we are is a good or bad thing, but that doesn't take away our right to be us.
but this isn't really true: [Ed-S: I'm going to try allowing discussion, though this has a lot of potential for politics. Remain civil and respectful of others' and their opinions.]
I'm pretty sure if someone got on here and espoused their beliefs/opinions that being gay is a sin etc etc he/she'd get the ban hammer (or maybe just get his/her comment deleted) so that's not really being respectful of their opinions but it is what it is. Let's just call a spade a spade and say that if you don't agree with the mods then prepare to get your comment deleted or banned.
There are two things that don't get tolerated. One is statements that are racist/sexist/homophobic/immature /inappropriate/offensive/whatever. The other is statements that will inevitably start off-topic fights. Regardless of whether a statement is part of the former, if it is part of the latter it's gone.
There's also a HUGE difference between respecting someone's opinion and having to provide the forum to espouse/debate those beliefs. This here be a sports blog.
FWIW, I deleted comments about gays being bad, AND comments about Christians being bad. Again. Sports blog.
I have my personal veiws about this but I will refrain from them and say if he is happy and this is what the young man has chosen then more power to him. I dont agree with how the media sometimes over does it and borderline pushes a "gay agenda". But the young man is entitled to live how he choses without discrimination or threat so I wish him the best of luck.
but at least you refrained (as promised) from sharing your personal views. s/
You know, I was going to say something about this "gay agenda" crap, but I'm going to leave it alone.
Happy the kid was comfortable enough to come out, and maybe one day people everywhere won't have to tell others their sexuality because they won't have to fear persecution.
I realize I'm bordering on politics here, but I look forward to the day where news like this isn't newsworthy. But really, I'm happy for him, and wish him best of luck.
Did you guys finally fix that bug where caved threads stayed up on the moble ap? I used to love re-reading the unedited version of crazy threads like these to see what people actually said to get wacked but it seems like they match now.
If so that makes me sad. No more "unrated" versions of this movie.
But that just works with caved users. Deleted comments get deleted everywhere.
WHAT ABOUT THE SHOWERS?!?!?!
Can I go hang out in the women's showers? I promise I'm not sexually attracted to every single one of them in there.
I get it. Clever analogy. s/
I promise if you are dropped in the middle of a full womens shower you will be so uncomfortable and embarassed you will want to leave immediately. As much as guys are "hur hur hur i'd do em all" there is no way that is a comfortable and exciting environment.
Any words on this topic from UM Athletic Dept and coaches?
So they can be bashed and ripped for not responding to one side's liking? They're very smart in keeping mum till it hits closer to home.
I think every athlete should just come out saying they are gay and put this matter behind us. I really don't give a damn about the sexuality of the athletes I watch. I just want them to watch them perform their sport. But, I would like to see an athlete not only thank GOD but also thank god for making him/her gay and see how that goes down in the media.
Point is, stop focusing on sexual preferences. It has no place being discussed in sports. People should be judge by their ability, not their sexuality.
It would be great if people were just based on their ability, but as long as fans and other players still call players homosexual terms and there are protests against aspects of human sexuality, this will sadly still be an issue.
It does feel like some day soon players won't need to announce to the media their sexual preference because nobody will bat an eye either way.
Glad to see he felt comfortable enough to make it public. Also, nice to see the community here can keep the discussion largely civil.
...I just hate that it's BIGGER news because of the media.
I see why it's a story, but at the same time...for someone like myself that has NO issues with it - it's like, okay, now let's just go play ball.
Then you have all these questions once it's given all this attention...Are we going to do this for every sport? Is there a line? Who makes that line? When is it not news anymore? Is someone keeping a tally? At this point should I care if I have no issues or opinions with it?
If people want to discuss...by all means, discuss. But for those who've discussed enough, are they now "bigots" or "ignorant" because it's no longer a big deal or any deal to them?
I guess that's where I am, I applaud the young man...all he did was tweet about it. He didn't ask for anything else. But now do we have to go through the pioneering storyline yet again?
For me, that's what bothers me. It's like rather than REAL discussion (like on here)...it's ESPN making it breaking news all day for 2 days. Then they'll recap the breaking news and compare it to the others who've done the same thing. Then they'll give the hisotrical perspective on OTL during the weekend. And then just when you think it's over...they'll ask LeBron James what he thinks about the situation.
At that point I'm like, OKAY, ENOUGH! I didn't feel any kind of way from the beginning, now I'm pissed just because I have to watch this shit for a week. Now you've brought all of these opinions out and someone has said something ignorant because they too are pissed about all of the coverage and didn't know how to handle it and now we have another uprising when everyone was cool at the beginning.
Reminds me of the Will Farrell/Old School scene "OKAY! EVERYONE! WE HAVE TO STAY CALM! NO ONE FREAK OUT! WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR COMPOSURE!!" and ESPN is Will Farrell and we are everyone else in the locker room, like "dude, okay, chill...we weren't all that hyped up to begin with."
So, to sum it up:
"Good for him" = approval
"Why is this a story?" = someone tiptoeing the lines of policial correctness to state they disapprove of gay people.
Luckily, I think most people fit into the first camp.
Yes, discourse always works better when you assume that when someone says something you disagree with, it means whatever you want it to mean.
Congratulations