December 15th, 2009 at 3:26 AM ^

I am not a Tiger defender and would not be surprised to find that he is doing "something", but this one seems like kind of a reach when you read the whole article.
The Doctor is helping athletes through a platelet therapy procedure and it seems like it works for a lot of injured sports figures.

The Doc's 5 day a week HGH use is sensational, but there is really nothing that ties that to Tiger or the other athletes.


December 15th, 2009 at 9:02 AM ^

My wife was 34 weeks pregnant back in August when they found out her platelet count was down to 22,000. Normal ranges on the low scale at 100k-120k. Their method of boosting her platelets were through an IV called IVIG as well as oral steroids. Within a few days her platelets were up to 300k and they were able to induce her labor and deliver our daughter successfully.

I'm not saying my wife could go out there and smash a ball 300 yards smack in the middle of the fairway, but she did have unbelievable amounts of energy for a good 3-4 week period.

I'm not accusing anyone of wrongdoing related to the platelets in the Woods situation, but after witnessing what my wife went through I could see some performance enhancing capabilities.


December 16th, 2009 at 8:53 AM ^

...the reason for the steroid was to help keep the platelets up through the delivery so that my wife did not hemorrhage and doctors be unable to stop it and prevent her from bleeding to death. I didn't want to give all the details and make this board sound like an episode of "The Doctors" but just in case someone is in the situation like my wife or yours, they can at least know all the possible reasons for the steroids and IVIG. Oh, the steroid was Prednesone(sp?).

Hoken's Heroes

December 15th, 2009 at 8:06 AM ^

...that the bigger story is Tiger using PED(s). His body got big and big fast. So many said I was crazy but they obviously don't understand athletes nor have been around people who have used it. Tale tell sign was how thick Tiger got everywhere from being such a skinny guy to begin with. Forearms especially, which are typically difficult to bulk up. And his face which got puffy. And a guy who was that determined to conquer so many women as he did would also be determined to keep his edge by using anything to stay #1. Bottom line is that Tiger is a fraud of a man. Yes, the greatest golfer ever regardless if he was on HGH, but a fraud of a person.


December 15th, 2009 at 9:45 AM ^

My point is if we cared less about how celebrities and athletes lived their livers it would benefit everyone.
To that point, no one should ever judge anybody else, and no one should put a celebrity on a pedestal or idolize them. Everyone is human at the end of the day and more times that not the people we see on TV are nowhere near the people we think or hoped they would be.

Hoken's Heroes

December 15th, 2009 at 10:06 AM ^

My point is if we cared less about how celebrities and athletes lived their livers it would benefit everyone.

I don't care about tiger's liver! :P

Here's where I disagree with you. Tiger and those employed by him to fabricate his image do so to manipulate us into buying his products or products endorsed by him. Had he just played golf and not endorsed anything, I'd be in total agreement. But while he had an invested interest to make us believe in him, we have an invested interest to care what he does. It's a two way street that many fans neglect to think about.


December 15th, 2009 at 10:21 AM ^

you have to assume this going in.

I have never purchased a thing because Tiger, Tom Brady, Emmitt Smith or anyone else endorsed it.
The whole markteting/advertising world is built to simply put out an image that will most efficently help the company sell their goods to the American public.
Your earlier Jordan example is a perfect one, here in Chicago most people know he is not a saint, but that image won't sell a billion dollars of his brand name line. So they craft an image that will.
I hate that this is the case, but it is.


December 15th, 2009 at 8:20 AM ^ judge him so harshly. Especially on the performance enhancing drugs.

Also, fraud of a man? Really? Because he cheated with many women? By that logic, Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Thomas Jefferson and many other historical figures that people celebrate today were frauds. I don't think you can make such sweeping condemnations of people because they were unfaithful sexually. A lot of people who are otherwise great humanitarians have problems in this area. It's easy to just dismiss them because of this one character makes us feel superior to them in some way I guess. But it's simplistic and doesn't take into account their whole life's work.

Tiger may in fact be a fraud of a person. I don't know. But this scandal doesn't define him as such by itself in my view.

Blue in Yarmouth

December 15th, 2009 at 8:37 AM ^

I think you are grossly underestimating the impact an unfaithful husband has on his family.

The fact that many other famous people did too is hardly grounds to say what Tiger did isn't that bad.

Tiger Woods was a father and husband who made promises to remain faithful to his wife. Maybe you don't take your word or that of others seriously, but there are still many around today that do.

The fact that he made such promises and chose to ignore the obligations they carried with them to both his wife and child do show him to be a fraud. I don't know the personal history of the others you mentioned but if they did the same them I would say they are as well.

Just because someone is a great humanitarian doesn't mean they should be able to cheat on their wives and have nobody bat an eyelash, that is just crazy.

Blue in Yarmouth

December 15th, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^

Nice try, but not a very good recap.

His view is simplistic because it ignores what the act of cheating does to the family. Saying he did other good things so this "cheating" shouldn't matter.

If a person robs a bank but goes to church every Sunday are they still a bank robber? If they feed the homeless with the money the steal, like Robin Hood, are they not still a bank robber?

You are seriously arguing that being a good humanitarian gives people the right to cheat on their spouses? Some of the worlds most notorious villians did good things as well. It doesn't give them a free pass to do other things that without reprecussion.

Steve in PA

December 15th, 2009 at 9:48 AM ^

Would his redeeming quality be that he can hit a golfball really far accurately? BFD I say. I may be willing to overlook it happening once, but the man is a serial skinhound. That's OK, when you're not married.

What makes this a story is that we were sold an image that obviously wasn't true. It's a failure of marketing rather than a failure of the person.

Also, I would not have put FDR on that list. The man imprisoned ~130,000 americans for the sole reason of being Japanese decent. This can never be forgiven IMHO and the history books just gloss over it.


December 15th, 2009 at 10:28 AM ^

FDR looked out of place on that list to me as well.

Tiger had an impeccable image completely deconstructed in about a week. Now after hearing what a dog he was to the beautiful woman who bore him 2 children, accusations of HGH/PED use don't seem as outrageous as they would have a few months ago.

Man, how fast is everyone but Nike sprinting away from this guy? Seems like he's losing endorsements hourly.


December 15th, 2009 at 5:44 PM ^

Despite you claiming that I said since "he did other good things so this 'cheating' shouldn't matter," it doesn't make it so. I never said it doesn't matter. I think it is a poor reflection on the man. He is a bad husband and has indirectly hurt his children in the process of breaking his marriage vows. What I am arguing is that you can't deem him a complete fraud based on cheating on his wife. I'm sorry, but that is simplistic. The world isn't black and white like this. Tiger has done a hell of a lot charity work, and that should count for something...just as one example.

As a hypothetical, answer me this: When Tiger was growing up, he was turned away from playing golf courses due to the color of his skin. Lets say that the people that turned him away were all faithful to their wives, despite being racists. Does that make them better than Tiger? I guess it depends on your priorities. I would say no.

I was never giving Tiger a free pass. All I was saying is that people are complex. People have good qualities and flaws. You can't take a person's flaw and use it to make a blanket statement that they are a complete fraud. It's not fair and it is simplistic. We live in the real world, not a world that is black and white.

Tiger is not a notorious villain as far as I know and so such comparisons are not apt. He is a cheat. Yes it is bad. But the only person he hurt was his wife, and indirectly, his children. I will not condemn the man for one serious character flaw.

Oh, and I do take my word very seriously. It's very important to me. But I would hope that if I didn't live up to my values in one area of my life, that people would not discount all the good aspects of my character and dub me a complete fraud. I wouldn't do that to someone else. Sure, it's the easy thing to do, but I just don't think it's right. Good people can do bad's human nature. They succumb to human temptations. I for one am willing to forgive people as long as they admit their mistakes and the hurt it caused and try to better themselves in the future.


December 16th, 2009 at 11:40 AM ^

What parallel universe do you live in where my post argues that Tiger Woods is not a man who cheated on his wife repeatedly, or that doing so was ok?

All I suggested was judging a person's entire character based on one bad trait is simplistic. Arguing that things are more complicated than that is less simplistic. I said this in the context of PEDs and whether he took them.

Good God.

Blue in Yarmouth

December 15th, 2009 at 8:41 AM ^

To be clear, the whole fraud thing is not what I am disagreeing with here. I am questioning the variables you are using to determine with certainty that he has used PEDs.

I am a Dr. so I have knowledge about human A&P and my brother-in-law used PED's so I have a knowledge of what changes the body undergoes when one is using them.

I can't say with absolute certainty that he isn't using them, but the things you are using as evidence that he is can be explained in other ways.

"His body got big and big fast." The human body can do this, and not only in the case of pro athletes. I once lost 30 punds in a three month period and I was not sick during that time. Also, in Uni. I gained about 20 lbs of muscle in a three moonth period without the use of PED;s or any other suppliment. All I did was weights and diet.

"Tale tell sign was how thick Tiger got everywhere from being such a skinny guy to begin with." What you are saying here can easily be attibuted to the fact that Tiger grew up.

When he hit the professional scene he was still a child, a teenager. He is bigger now and better defined muscularly, which is likely the case for most pro athletes. The human body undergoes serious changes between your late teens and early thirties.

Tiger was the size I would expect a teenager to be when he started on the pro tour. He is now the size I would expect a man his age to be given that he takes part in a serious training program.

The whole forearm and face filling out thing fall in the same boat. Him growing into his body is every bit as likely as him taking PED's. My forearms are twice the size they were when I was 18 and I haven't lifted weights in 10 years. My face is puffier too....when people gain weight it goes to different places, with me it's my face and gut.

Again, I am not disputing that Tiger appears to be a fraud of a man here, but I don't think anyone can say with absolute certainty that he is using PEd's. By the same token, I can't say for sure that he isn't, I am just saying the things you mentioned can be explained by other things.

Hoken's Heroes

December 15th, 2009 at 8:51 AM ^

Let me clarify, he got thick and ripped fast. Having been around body building for several decades, I am going to put my money on the fact that Tiger was on something to help him. And let it be known that I think it should be legal for athletes to do this just as long as they publicly state they are doing so. What we saw of Tiger was not Tiger. What we saw is what his marketing team wanted us to see. It's not unlike what Hollywood does with stars to make them marketable. That's why he's a fraud. I think his marriage was arranged to continue to market him as a wholesome family guy. We now know that he wasn't. And the funny thing is that many in Golf knew it too but kept silent. Why out a guy that was making so many other golfers richer? And journalist knew too. Michael Jordan was a huge philanderer but he never was marketed like Tiger. I'd have much more respect for Tiger if he came out and just said, "I am a very competitive guy and I like to conquer everything in front of me. That includes women who I adore. I, like many top athletes, have this drive that we sometimes can not stop. My goal has always been to be the best golfer ever. And that is what I still want to do. I sincerely apologize to every fan who thought I was something I obviously am not. I have had to pick between golf and my family. I love my family and I will take care of them but my life is about golf. That is who I am. Now if you will excuse me, I need to go out and practice so I can continue to compete and win on the golf course."

That is who Tiger is and what he should say. HE doesn't care about his family, that's obvious.


December 15th, 2009 at 5:37 PM ^

You are saying that because he cheated on his wife, he doesn't care about his kids at all? I seriously doubt that.

Tiger obviously didn't care enough about his wife to stop his philandering ways. That I don't disagree with. Does that mean he doesn't care about her at all...not necessarily. I bet he does care for her. Just not to the level that he should have as a husband. And to say that he doesn't care about his family at all because he cheated is way too harsh. It might be true, but you don't know. You can't extrapolate it out like that. I bet he cares about his kids very much.


December 15th, 2009 at 8:38 AM ^

HGH or steroids could be medically indicated for recovering from major knee surgery. And people do get bigger as they get older. The Tiger-bashing bandwagon sure is rolling now, though.

I can't wait for the next story: "Tiger Woods created HIV with his chemistry set when he was one year old." Or, "Tiger Woods responsible for Asian tsunami disaster."

Hoken's Heroes

December 15th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^

And what might have contributed to his knee problem. While muscles get stronger, ligaments don't so excess lifting could have caused the damage. And I don't know if Tiger ever stated how he hurt his knee. Even if he did, we know he is a liar so his word means shit. If you were a business, would you hire him to be your spokes person? Unless you sold condoms or were a bail bondsman, probably not.

Hoken's Heroes

December 15th, 2009 at 9:07 AM ^

they get fat when they get older. WE have gone through this before with the sycophants that claimed that Barry Bonds wasn't on anything either. Some of you have your heads stuck in the sand. So many athletes in so many sports are using PEDS and yet you want to put the blinders on to think that Tiger didn't. Sorry that your adoring perception of Tiger has been destroyed like the Hindenburg crashing down in a fiery blaze, but Tiger was just a made up marketing story. He's destroyed himself by proving what a reckless and immoral idiot he is. His only way to save himself is to get back onto the golf course and dominate. That's where he belongs. He obviously is not a family man and should leave his wife.


December 15th, 2009 at 10:28 AM ^

While I don't disagree with your last point, I do disagree with the rest that you say. Tiger's what, 32? How many NFL athletes are 32 and are in absurd shape. Just because Tiger is a fit athlete in a world traditionally full of overweight men (a world that is changing to more fit men BECAUSE of Tiger) doesn't mean he's using PEDs.


December 15th, 2009 at 8:45 AM ^

Skip the ESPN cliffnotes. That story tells you nothing.

The NY Times piece is very compelling on many different levels. Recommended reading, if only because it takes us a bit behind the scenes with injuries and what different athletes do to recover.

Honestly, and I dont care about Tiger, or Golf for matter, but I didnt read anything in the story at all that made me think he is a PED creation.....but I did find it interesting that his own personal doctors brought in the doctor in question becuase Tiger's knee was not healing right. It was revealing that Tiger was still texting this doctor in July and October because his knee remained a pain.

His knee is not bouncing back, his marriage is a mess and is life is a tabloid open book. Good luck in 2010, pal.

I'd like to hear what the doctors in the house have to say about the NY Times piece.