OT: Talking Cars Tuesday - Best/Worst
Sorry it's late today, but here goes. What was the BEST car you ever owned? What was the WORST? Why? Were they the same car?
(Side note, I don't have tons more topic ideas, if you have a good one, let me know!)
(Side note 2: someone asked why we don't get manual transmission cars anymore in the US, the short version is that it costs Millions to do federal crash tests and the cost/benefit is such that most companies decide not to federalize them. The long version is much longer and a bit of a rant... maybe some other time #SaveTheManuals)
I always figured the market isn't there for manuals anymore because people are too lazy to learn.
So Manuals in the US are expensive to crash test. For maybe 7% of sales. If the car company thinks half those people may buy the car anyway with an auto, they're now at 3.5% of sales. So they don't bring them over. Similarly, they don't spend money on manual transmission development because they don't get the return. So the manuals get worse. The autos get better, the cycle repeats...
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The crash tests are just expensive. So if you're spending $20M (a guess) to crash test your new car, would you spend another $20M to crash test the stick shift version too? for 7% of sales?
Each powertrain option needs to be crash tested - thems the rules. So different engines are $20M (again, a guess) each, on trucks different #s of doors - $20M each.
Now if we (the US, Canada, and Europe) can all just agree on 1 set of safety rules we'd get lots of the fun options they get elsewhere in the world.
So Ford need to test the Fusion with the ecoboost 4 and the 6 seperately?
What about trucks? 6/8 4wd/2wd all need to be tested?
If you think about it, in a front crash test you've got a 200-400lb block of iron that's going to do something - and that something may be different if its 200 vs 400lbs.
So even though the Audi A4 is offered with like 7 engines in Europe it only gets 1 (maybe 2) US options for 2017. I assume the math must say the take rates are small enough that they only need to federalize 1 engine to get 90% of the sales volume they would get if they did more - or something like that.
In general you only get multiple engine options on cars they sell tons of or cars with high margins (like pickups, huge margins. Also sell tons).
Similarly, the "upcharges" can pay for this testing. Does the Diesel Cruze really cost an extra $2,000 to manufacture? Probably not. It will be more expensive, but baked into the price is the cost of the testing too. This is why you'll often see bigger engines on more expensive models only - for example the GMC Yukon gets a 5.3L engine. The Yukon Denali (More $$, more margin) gets the 6.2L.
This has made its way into advertising too - IIRC Ford said that the previous gen F150 was a 5 star crash test, but it was only one body style (4Dr short bed?) - others were bad in crash tests. Ads point stuff like that out now.
if Audi is making like 7 engine choices in Europe, does Europe not make them test all of them? Or is it cheaper there? Or just worth it given the market?
I'd always thought their safety restrictions were more stringent.
And he told me he was working on a double clutch manual. Some development money must be going there.
I've only ever owned three cars, and I can't think of any reason to call any one of them the worst.
So instead I'll bitch about the Corolla I was given by the rental car people. (This was in Burlington, Vermont. Pickin's were slim.) You know how some cars, you can just glide on up to like 85 mph, and never realize it? The Corolla was like that, but the other way around. I got on the freeway, accelerated (slowly) to the speed I'm used to driving (or thought I was), and hit the cruise. Then I looked at the speedo and realized I was doing 58. FFS, Toyota. It's obvious why they're the car company for people who hate cars.
The first car that was ever really mine was a 96 toyota carolla. 4 of the 5 people in my family drove it, starting with father and then both older siblings . It rode smooth as could be 250,000 miles later. People get those cars because they work well.
I liked it so much I bought a second for the wife.
People get those cars because they don't want anything more out of a car than they want out of a washing machine.
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Its weird that you think when spending thousands of dollars on something that people value what works best for the longest more than what feels coolest to drive is a bad thing. Like congrats on the boner you get merging onto the highway but I'd rather not have to spend thousands of dollars every 7 years when I can get a car that lasts for 15. I'll use that saved money to do things way more interesting than drive on a highway with turns quickly.
I didn't say it was a bad thing. I just said you're not really into cars. You want an appliance that performs a function inexpensively and lasts a long time. And you're up front about it. I would only cast a critical eye if you claimed you just love driving and love cars and you do get a woody from fast and fun highway driving, and then bragged about your ancient Corolla with a quarter million miles on it.
The new 8-speed transmissions are supposed to be more fuel efficient that the vast majority of manual drivers.
I will admit, I love listening to my engine roar when using my manual shifter paddles.
My car has a 7-speed and it gets crap mileage. It's fast though.
Your car gets crap milage because it's got a giant V6 in it. Just like mine.
More fuel efficient on the EPA Cycle is probably true. In the real world? Your mileage may vary.
I'm totally in favor of the EPA having a test cycle - you need something to compare across cars. It's not a perfect test, as is doesn't accelerate/coast/etc. at the same speeds as every driver, but OK, let's say you need a test. That's fine.
Here's the problem - automatics all are programmed to do well on that test. When to upshift, etc. are all up to the programming. Manuals on the other hand are all upshifted at 3,000 RPM. Full stop. You're in first gear until 3K, 2nd gear until 3K, etc. Unless I'm having fun I never upshift above 3K, usually 2300RPM or so to get better mileage. Just like you need a test, it helps if you have a point for all manual cars to shift so that you can compare them to each other... however I know no one who upshifts at 3,000RPM every time every shift.
So - the window sticker might be better for the Automatic, but as they say - your mileage may vary.
But I'm afraid they will go the way of the crotch heater vent
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My 2000 BMW was just picked up by the junk yard. Hopefully it will go out to pasture and be picked over for parts before they crush it.
/sad day.
But you know if you went back to her she'd just treat you bad...
didn't know that about the epa/mpg for manuals. interesting.
It seems to always be in the power band. I have always been a manual guy, but the 8 speed has made me question it.
I've got an idea Ben. Simply change your thread from car to ex-girlfriend or ex-wife and restart the whole thing from scratch
- Best/worst ex GF and why
- Fastest GF
- Tell me about the one that got away - the GF you wish you still had
- Which country makes the best GF's and why
- Tell me about your near-miss experiences with GF accidents
I'm telling you Ben just make that one change and you're got a lot of interesting OT thread ideas that would keep the board busy.
Gotta stick with cars in order to keep the topic relatively inexpensive.
A suggestion for a future topic, having to do with worst time or place you've ever broken down, runout of gas, or had a flat tire.
It wasn't the worst place, but it was an interesting experience - one time many storms ago, we were patrolling (I was not driving) a circuit and got a flat at about Grand River and Greenfield, which isn't really a superb area to do lengthy on-the-spot auto repair. However, if you're in official gear and hard hats, people do tend to leave you alone - even got some help, as a matter of fact, from a guy who also wanted $20 for some White Castle (so he said, but whatever, small price to pay for a hand).
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Buffets
Concerts
Farts
Injuries
Sweaters
Things you've stolen
Books
TV Dinners
People you've killed
"Everybody ...kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me."
Best Buffet: Warren
Worst Buffet: Jimmy
Remember to tip your waitstaff. I'll be here all week and I be at the Chucklehut next week.
"Talking Women Wednesday."
I like it.
of their favorite, uhm, cars? big trouble if someone wants to post one of a convertible....
Best I've owned was a 97 Chevy Tahoe that I sold to my brother-in-law 5 years ago and is still going strong. Worst I've owned was a 95 Chevy Monte Carlo. Favorite of all time though was a 1983 Oldsmobile 98 that was at least 63 feet long and could transport a herd of cattle in the trunk!
I know. That trunk was bigger than the interior of most cars today!
With emphasis on the dead part.
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Since I've had love / hate relationships with most of my cars, especially the ones I really loved at the beginning and then grew to hate and resent, much like a spouse.
My most reliable car was a 1990 Audi 90. It had an inline 5 and a manual. That car was like a little tank. I got it about 15 years into its life with over 200k miles on it and I gave it away a few years later with almost 300k. Almost everything, including the heated seats and mirrors, still worked on that car and there was almost no rust (Audi used to use galvanized steel).
galvanized BLUE STEEL
Best: Audi S4 2015
Nicest car i have ever driven by far. Love the mix of subtle sport and luxury. Classy as fuck, but can still walk away from a mustang gt in 5th gear. God i miss that car. Drunk driver cross faced me. owned it for 3 months, lost a bunch of money because michigan insurance is a joke. At least he is in jail for manslaughter of his passenger and fleeing the scene of my totaled S4.
Edit: Manual trans
Worst: Oldsmobile Achieva
We all have to start somewhere. My first car, bought for $1000 from my parents. Its 4banger quickly exploded. I dont even remember much about it. Terrible car though.
but there's nothing different about 'michigan insurance', it's simply that all insurance companies are the spawn of satan, particularly the ones with 'farm' in their name.
2000-ish Grand Prix. If I ever find out what junk yard it is inevitably in I'm going to bury it upside down and piss on its grave. The bastard gave me on last eff you when I traded it in for the 2nd biggest pos I've owned (both were wife's cars, but still) which was a Montana minivan.
So stay away from Pontiacs?
of the reason GM folded that line.