OT: Sony trolled Microsoft HARD last night(video)

Submitted by ClearEyesFullHart on June 11th, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Background: Much has been made about Xbox One's restrictive game DRM(Digital Rights Management) wherein games can be shared with exactly one friend(by code or login? I'm not sure), can only be resold through licensed retailers, and perhaps most offensively if you do not authenticate your XBOX online every 24 hours it becomes one ugly paper weight(till you log in again). Xbox fans are desperately clinging to the idea that their launch exclusives are better...

While Sony's own exclusives dont look too shabby...

 

Making this argument both premature and subjective. It's always been this way. Gears of War/Halo vs God of War/Uncharted. So what do we KNOW? Playstation 4 will have faster DDR5 RAM. Playstation 4 will have a better graphics card. http://reviews.cnet.com/ps4/

Xbox One will have Kinect. http://reviews.cnet.com/microsoft-xbox-one/

Playstation 4 has a gamepad with a motion element and a touchpad. I'm guessing controller two isn't going to be cheap. Xbox will have a broadcast cable passthrough(why?) but no DVR funcionality. Playstation 4 will have no restrictive DRM, and will be playable with or without an internet connection. Xbox One will cost $499. Playstation 4 will cost $399. I already preordered mine. What say you all?

Comments

ClearEyesFullHart

June 11th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

I'd always thought picture in picture would be really cool...till I got it. It sounds great in theory, but in practice it's just kind of annoying. Did someone forget to tell Microsoft we've already got an input/source button on our remote control? How many people who are going to buy a $500 machine are going to need a new box to give them picture in picture? How many are going to care about using one more hdmi input?

SchrodingersCat

June 11th, 2013 at 4:13 PM ^

The sad part is that it isn't even used correctly 99% of the time. Trolling used to be the act of dropping a few obviously contentious statements into a message board and watching people bitterly argue with no gain. The troller was acting like the fisherman sitting in his boat. Simply casting a statement overboard in many different places and letting people fight over it with minimal effort. Now people are "losing the game" by spending more effort trying to "troll" people than the effort people but into their arguments after being trolled. Get off my internet lawn you kids!

joeyb

June 11th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

GDDR5, not DDR5. GDDR5 will be faster for graphics. DDR3 will be faster for general usage. Considering that Microsoft sold out on the idea of a media center, you're pretty much comparing apples and oranges.

CooperLily21

June 11th, 2013 at 2:12 PM ^

That funny you say that because a lot of the games coming out this fall are going to be prepped for release on both PS3 and PS4.  In the case of Battlefield 4, its going to be very interesting to see how that works.  PS4 is going to support 64-man servers for BF4 but PS3 only supports 24-man servers.  Its a drastically different gaming experience between the two but of course they have to make the game for both to maximize profit.

CooperLily21

June 11th, 2013 at 2:29 PM ^

I think the TDM maps are extended on PC (think SqDM on PS3) but the real difference is seen in Conquest rounds.  On PS3 you can run around for 20 minutes and not see anyone!  That doesn't happen on PC.  Many (most?) of the maps weren't made for only 24 players.  I can't believe that the guys/gals at DICE feel that their design is being fully appreciated on console.  But we at least got all the DLCs before everyone else on PS3, so that's something.

If you're interested in seeing some PC footage, check out rivaLxfactor or LevelCapGaming on Youtube.  They have great educational stuff.

xxxxNateDaGreat

June 11th, 2013 at 2:19 PM ^

I know it is really douchey to say it, but I'm probably going PC for a few years. If you are resourceful, you can get one for the same price as an Xbox one and you can get games on the cheap from Steam.

That said, of I'm going console, I would probably choose PS4. I agree that piracy and used games are a real problem, but putting that burden on the consumers is not a good solution. Companies should be working on taking percentages from gamestop's used game sales, not charging consumers full MSRP or shutting down the system if the account has not been verified in 24 hours. And while always online would not be a problem for ME 95% of the time, I imagine that 5% would leave me pretty pissed off.

Business Time

June 11th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

They changed the processor architecture they use on the PS4 so true backwards compatibility won't be possible as far as popping your old PS3 discs in. However, Sony has recently announced that they plan to make some PS3 games available via streaming so all is not lost (http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-gamers-can-stream-ps3…).

Follow Thy Fullback

June 11th, 2013 at 3:04 PM ^

In my eyes the 360 killed the PS3...I haven't even been paying attention about the new consoles. I have an original 360 Elite never red ringed on me or anything put a month alone on MW2 online still runs great picked up a PS3 for Xmas and was happy with it the downside is there's no party chat so you can't communicate with your friends unless your playin the same game in the same lobby. From this thread/friends/E3 nerds all sayin the PS4 is better my question is are they addressing this at all so you can have a party chat or some shit?

elaydin

June 11th, 2013 at 5:29 PM ^

Emulating the Cell processor would be very difficult/annoying/expensive to do.  PS2 is feasible, but people will pay to buy the IP again, so it's not worth the headache.

Internal to these companies, people realize that backward compatibility a lot of work with diminishing payoffs over the life of a console.

Gamers will bitch about it, but it isn't a good investment.

gwkrlghl

June 11th, 2013 at 5:46 PM ^

Even if Microsoft corrects the two obvious blunders (constant internet connection needed; almost impossible to share games) and the fact Sony just publicly took them to town, the PS4 has probably gained thousands and thousands of buyers from Microsoft who are in the casual gamer category

duffman355

June 11th, 2013 at 6:28 PM ^

I'm not saying years down the road that I won't buy a PS4 or an xbox 1, but what can the new consoles do that a high quality gaming PC can't already do?  High end gaming pc can already plam games at 1080P 3D, etc. 

 

Consoles are cheaper than gaming pc, but games are a hell of alot cheaper on Steam.  I have a Steam backlog right now, and I basically never spend more than $25 on a game I want unless I have to have it at launch.    For the record, I have a PS3 which I mainly play sports games on, and an Xbox 360 which I literally only play Forza on.  The only reason I bought a 360 was becasue I found a hell of a deal on a used elite still under warranty and I had won a shit ton of money playing keno the night before at the bar.  I haven't played keno since then becasue I figure I'll never win that much again, lol.

turtleboy

June 11th, 2013 at 6:44 PM ^

I like xbox, but all the different ways they want to force you to spend more just for the privilege of using their system pisses me the fuck off. I love Dead Space and I was so mad jumping through all the hoops to play pay-for-online-only multiplayer. I had to sign up with 6 different websites with 6 different passwords to play 2 player coop online even though i was sitting in the fucking room with the my 2nd player, and my email got spammed so hard after that. Now they want to dictate to all gamers how they should be allowed to play at all. Fuck you Microsoft, I'm the fucking consumer, I tell you what I want, you cater to me, not the other way around. You don't get my money anymore.

Danwillhor

June 11th, 2013 at 6:58 PM ^

Yet, I keep up on the details and tech. Simply put, Sony is curbstomping Microsoft in the early shots of this generation. First, MS assumes Sony will go their usual route and use less RAM in their system but assume it will be GDDR5 at a total of 4GB (remember, that is to run thr OS and games). So, MS uses the same RAM they used in their almost decade old console at 8GB knowing it will keep down costs AND keep the systems roughly equal in strength if not in their favor. 

Sony then announces the PS4 with 8GB of GDDR5 ram. MS shit themselves and pushed back the showing/announcement of their new console an entire month to plan for the unexpected showing by Sony. That was the first "ace in Sony's hole". MS comes back a month after their original announcement date and shows a system that has to use ESRM bridging to even get their old RAM to run anywhere close to Sony's outright 8GB of GDDR5 AND PS4s APU is just outright more powerful than XB1 as MS is even planning to underclock their chips to create more yield. That isn't too much of an issue as it will only cause what happened this current gen in that multiplatform games will now run better on the PS4 as opposed to the XB1 but the difference wont be huge. As a PS3 owner, it didn't bother me too much when most multiplat had slightly better textures and such on the 360. Yet, due to it being harder to code for, you will see some games look very bad on the MS machine early on as the PS3 did when it comes to muliplats (bayonetta, etc) (and some companies won't waste their time making the game for the XB1 out of saving money for porting, like early in the PS3s lifecycle).

Then, as if they want out of the gaming industry, MS comes to their announcment and doesn't really show any amazing exclusive games but tells of all of the negative aspects of their console directly or by gist (and later admitted at E3). The online check-in every 24 hours, no game lending without losing the game yourself, DRM, anti-used games, kinect always on/plugged in, etc. This alone was enough to make even the staunchest Xbox fanboy worried as I know, saw and read from many.

So, to recover, at E3 MS pays mega developers (who's games will be multiplatform and look better on PS3/4 anyway *Kojima/MGS5*) a BOAT LOAD of momey to simply make their E3 conference not a complete joke. They show some exclusives but Sony is the king in that department and was even when the PS3 hadn't gained it's footing yet. Finally, they announce a $500 price for the console. Not bad but not great as Sony was given shit for the top end PS3 being $600 and the PS3 was almost as much of the entertainment machine the XB1 is at launch. Basically, the XB1 is a glorified cable box that plays games if you check in online every 24 hours or you cannot play the console and games you already bought. Also, it's universally known to be weaker than the PS4 already.

Sony then takes the stage and while they could have delivered a bigger ass kicking they kind of didn't. They did the usual droning on and on as they usually do and this was their time to really put the knife in MS and twist. An hour goes past and they barely show the console's look, show a few games that were mostly shown months prior and until theend they had a pretty mediocre showing due to MS dumping cash on devs to NOT Show their games at the Sony event. Then, at the last moment, they announce what officially curb stomped MS this gen: No issue with used games, no online required for single player games (how crazy is the notion of that by MS?), multiplayer may take an ultra cheap and heavy incentive laden PS+ to use but they had to recover some cash somehow and they are giving away disc based PS4 games at launch (!) and finally the price. $399. That did it. Forget the games shown and not shown. Forget everything else. In the PS4 you get a better machine with surging indie and mega studio support, no BS as far as DRM and you're getting it $100 cheaper. 

As an ex-gamer. I'm no fanboy but MS is getting curb stomped. Anyone who still buys an XB1 over the PS4 (or even WiiU) is insane at this point. It's as is MS wants out of the gaming market, lol. The level of bad publicity forthe XB1 is magnitudes greater than the PS3 took. The XB1 may truly be the next Sega Saturn or the next Virtual Boy. As of today (unless MS completely redevelopes their console and dev kits which would be suicide) the XB1 is dead. The only thing that could likely bring them back like the PS3 did was if they dropped all that BS "big brother" stuff. I wouldn't be shocked if they did because Sony put their teeth on the curb last night with just an average E3 showing.

Stronger console, easier to develop for, indie devs LOVE Sony, no BS DRM or always online, etc and all for $100 less. You'd be insane to buy the XB1 at launch. Again, I'm not a fanboy (I owed my gaming allegiance to no company) but I know a curb stomping when I see one in the tech world.

Schembo

June 11th, 2013 at 9:56 PM ^

I wonder how much cheaper the PS4 will really be?  I bet, in the end, the prices will probably equal out somewhat.  Sony will probably charge more than MS for online features and extra controllers, etc.  But it's a brilliant strategy nonethless.  This will be fascinating to watch as MS will probably have to change some things on the fly here to stay competitive.  I like your Sega Saturn analogy.

Danwillhor

June 11th, 2013 at 10:29 PM ^

From what I know, the console so far is one SKU and it's a 500GB PS4 for $399. It comes with a controller, HDMI cable ONLY (no SD TVs without a 3rd party adapter, I'm sure) and the usuals. Now, the controllers by themselves are now $10 more expensive. I'm sure that is due to the touch pad, more features, etc but it is now $60 for an extra controller. 

 

Also, unlike XB1 the single play games are free but Sony is switching to a pay for online format using their current PS+ system. PS+ is cool in itself and while I wish they stuck with bare bones free multiplayer they have to pay off servers somehow and a year subscription is $50. With PS+ you get online play (all other online options are free) but you also get the perks of PS+ such as weekly free games, exclusive betas, etc. When gaming and had PS+, it literally payed for itself with the games the ygave away in 2 weeks as they gave away 2 games that were $60 a piece and do that often. Plus, you get discounts on games with it, etc. So, if Sony had to go "pay to play online", they couldn't have done it any better than with PS+ but I'm still a little surprised they didn't go for the kill and announce online gaming was still 100% free if you chose not to get PS+.
 Also, on lauch day, people that buy a subscription or have one on their PS3/Vita (it carries over) will get the launch title Drive Club (I think that is what it is called) so there is your yearly subscription price right there.

The HD is still replaceable as I'm sure the new gen consoles (both) will find that 500GB is not enough if both plan to use the amount of digital downloads they say. XBA went with a non-replaceable but you can add an external while Sony stuck with the external or just flat out replace the internal Hard Drive. 

So, we'll see. I do know the Sony Eye Camerca is not inclded so that could be a thing that adds to cost but I last bought a console 4 years ago and it was a PS3 Move Bundle and I never play Move games, it was just a better PS3 for less money. HAHA.

My concern for gamers is whether the games themselves will go up as the yhave each gen. With Sony going back to it's PS1 "basically a PC" hardware style for ease of coding, will that keep games at $60 or will we see $70 games now? That would really stink for a gamer that simply wants to play NCAA and would have to shell out $5-600 just to play it depending on console, ya know?

Danwillhor

June 12th, 2013 at 2:15 AM ^

I didn't say the same amount (if I did it was written in haste). I meant to say that they are using RAM that is virtually the same as that in the 360, just more of it (8GB). 

GDDR5 ram runs about 5x faster (more in some cases and builds) than the RAM the XB1 is using and both are using 8GB of it. When Sony announced this shocker (it shocked even myself) Microsoft postponed their announcement in April a full month into May to figure out a way to make their machine even come close in RAM performance. What they did was add a 32MB ESRM bridge to their APU/RAM to help boost the speed of the outdated RAM and yet that still has it lagging behind. Worse yet, it makes the console harder to code for as devs will constantly have to work around that considering that (for both consoles) the total RAM is used for the OS and games.

Sorry for any confusion and, again, I'm not a fanboy. Just stating what I've read in tech journals and avoid rumors. MS has absolutely admitted this and I could give links but am too lazy at 2am. lol 

Sorry for any confusion.

Danwillhor

June 12th, 2013 at 2:21 AM ^

I also moderated your post as "informative" should I have confused anyone and further show I could care less about what company "wins" and am really just a tech enthusiast since I can no longer play them. /sadface  lol

JamieH

June 12th, 2013 at 10:58 AM ^

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying.. 

 

Yeah, it is possible that it is the same type of memory.  That honestly isn't necessarily a terrible thing.  There is so much more involved in the speed of these things then in just the exact speed of the memory, like bus speeds & caching, plus I know the XBOX has some high-speed SDRAM directly on the GPU that supposedly will factor into the overall equation as well. 

 

So in the end, you really can't tell what the overall perf of the box is until you start pushing it with games and see what happens. But you're right--on paper the Sony memory is faster.

 

Here's an article on the specs:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare

 

Danwillhor

June 12th, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^

No problem. Yeah, the two types of memory don't even compare head to head but MS rigged it up with a bridge that will still be slower but push their RAM to speeds close to the outright open GDDR5 Sony has. The real issue will be coding around what MS has done to get the older RAM up to speed with said bridge. This gen will be like last gen but in reverse and slightly worse, IMO. Sony multiplats will looks slightly better and run slightly smoother but not so much to make people that buy an XB1 really care. Whay may make them care is the non technical stuff like the DRM, online check-in to avoid having a daily paperweight even for single player, anti-used gamed, anti-borrowed games, etc. That and price is what I think will really hurt the XB1.

jonvalk

June 11th, 2013 at 7:27 PM ^

I'm still just going to stick with my PC for most of my gaming (mods, better graphics, etc) and just use my 360 for sports games.  I have no first-hand experience with Sony's online play (been told by friends that it's horrid and lonely), but I can definitively say I'm always impressed with Xbox Live's ease of use.  I get the DRM stuff (and that "borrowing games" video from Sony was LOL), but it's no different from what I experience now with Steam, really.  I just wouldn't want to pay $60 for the game AND have the DRM issues.

As for me, I just recently rebuilt my system.  I harvested the existing case, PSU, blu-ray drive and only upgraded MB, CPU, RAM and GPU.  My system was 6 years old before the upgrade and still ran Skyrim and Far Cry 3 on the same settings graphically as the Xbox 360/PS3.  Now I get Ultra on everygame but Metro: Last Light for less than $500.  Oh, and I forgot to mention that when upgrading, I got Steam game codes from AMD.  So I got (before their release) Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite, Hitman: Absolution and Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon for free with my purchase.  So take $200 off the price there just in games.  Oh, and the MicroCenter I purchased them from added a code for Assassin's Creed III because I chose them for my purchases over Newegg or Amazon.

I have the PC hooked up to my 60" TV, so it's just like using a console anyway (and almost every game supports the use of Microsoft's 360 wireless controller with a $20 dongle), except that I can also do ANYTHING else (including watching TV/movies via MediaCenter) on it.  All of the wallpapers I produce for the blog are done on the same machine that I game on.

Anyway, just my two cents.  I know a lot of console gamers are timid when it comes to switching to PC, but my 360 hasn't been on since I rebuilt my PC. I'd at least look into it when the time comes to choose.  If the title is going to be released on PC, you can bet that hardware companies will be putting more packages together that include them as a bonus for buying their component.

Danwillhor

June 11th, 2013 at 10:11 PM ^

They were all pretty bad (from EA) this gen but, for reasons stated above, if you want the best experience there is no reason to get an XB1. I swear to all I am no console fanboy! Microsoft just could not have botched their new console any worse than they have and it hasn't even released yet. 

Like the reverse last gen (but this gen will be to a larger degree) ,when a developer has two consoles to develop for and one is very simple and cost effective and the other is hard to code for and costs more to make for that console, they will either skip the harder console completely, or in EA's case, really not put too much effort into the harder console resulting in worse effects, frame rates, etc.

The kick here being that this gen it was the PS3 that had that issue until developers really learned how to code for it just a couple years ago. That is when devs started to make equal multiplatform games (like sports games) and even lead program on the PS3 because the PS3 WAS the stronger machine. Yet, it wasn't to such a degree that you could brute force code through and it be even with the 360.

This new gen, not only is the PS4 essentially a PC (like the 360 & XB1 are) to make coding easier but they have a console that is out of the gate and to the end of each consolses cycle stronger. What Microsoft had to rig up to make their machine even close to the PS4 in raw power and ease of code will gimp it for years and almost certainly it's entire life cycle as far as multiplats (EA, 2K sports games) go. 

It's essentially this gen in reverse but worse for Microsoft. Like the PS3 did, exclusive games where a dev can really use all the tricks of the console and only work on that console will have the Xb1 produce games that look good. The PS3 only really could show that it was stronger than the 360 with 1st party exclusives like Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, etc as those devs knew how to code for it as it was the only machine they had to worry about. So, Xb1 isn't a pile of crap technically but they had to really rig it up to even compete with the PS4 technically once Sony announced it's specs and it's 2 generation lesson of avoiding making their own proprietary parts that are hard to code for.

As a game lover who, sadly, cannot game anymore.....buying an XB1 will be a waste of $500 unless you REALLY need Halo as even Cliff B is on record as saying he is done with Gears of War and if it ever comes back it will likely be multiplat. Guy hated the PS3 when it first came out but since each new console showing has done nothing but dog MS for their system and terrible relationship with devs. So, if Halo is worth $500 to anyone, have a blast! Yet, if you are a sports gamer (you) or just want the best experience and more money in your wallet, the PS4 is a no brainer here. I mean, when MS employees are giving praise to Sony (for The last of Us and the PS4) and MS loving websites are calling the new console "The worst console announcement ever"...........writing is on the wall. I'm not even counting the gaming community that is just ripping the console apart (it has taken on the meme "XBone", for pete's sake). It could genuinely end up as the next Sega Saturn.

Not a fanboy. Your money. Yet, as a tech lover and someone who knows what all that tech talk means: PS4 and not even close. I won't be getting one but only because I cannot really game anymore due to health reasons.

ClearEyesFullHart

June 12th, 2013 at 11:08 AM ^

Microsoft addressed people in the armed forces without internet that they should just keep their 360's.  This leads me to believe that they will release Halo 5 and Gears of War 5 on the 360 as well.  EIther that or they were just being total condescending douchebags to people defending our country.  Hard to say.

Michigan Arrogance

June 11th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^

It seems to be that Nintendo is dead in the water as well. The WiiU seems to be a flop and there just aren't many games with a WOW factor for that system anymore. Where is the next SMB? Zelda? Metroid? MarioKart?

I'd love to get a PS4, but there just aren't enough kids friendly games for my kids to play. and the WiiMotes are really simple for the kids to pick up and learn to use.

In a perfect world, Nintendo would get rights to NCAA, Star Wars and Batman games. That way my kids could play and I could as well, without having 2-3 consoles under the TV.

Danwillhor

June 12th, 2013 at 2:20 AM ^

You would think so and you make some great points but the WiiU actually had sales soar almost 300% when the XB1 was announced! Now, THAT is a shocker considering that the 360/PS3 are still stronger than the WiiU and they are 7-8 years old. 

Nintendo might unseat the XB1 if they can stick to what they said they would do and reach out to devs for more mature and different games than 100 mario titles, etc.