OT: Socialize Your Dogs!
Okay so this a rant / public service announcement. Your call on how much of this post is each of the aforementioned options.
Socialize your dogs people and when someone has a mean dog, report it.
So in my neighborhood we have, well had, this vicious Akita, beautiful dog but it had the habit of getting loose and attacking other dogs. Roughed up a lab and did about $2,000 in vet bills to a border collie. The owners of the Akita paid the other dogs’ vet bills both times and said they were going to build a better fence, so the none of us reported these attacks to the cops or animal control, because we didn’t want to see a dog put down just because she had crappy owners.
Yesterday afternoon the Akita got loose and attacked my next door neighbor’s toddler. The toddler and his mother were outside playing when the Akita came streaking into the yard and went right for the kid. The Akita got a few bites in, then the mother grabbed the toddler. She was holding him in one hand, trying to fend off the dog with the other hand and screaming.
My two Malamutes heard this going down and got worked enough that Corin, the male, launched himself through my living room window, and Theodora the female followed. The Akita never heard or saw the Malamutes coming, which was the end of the Akita when Corin got his jaws on it.
The toddler and the mother both needed stitches at the ER, but they were discharged on the same day and will ultimately be fine. Corin has some scratches on his face from head butting a window and a cut on his paw. Theodora has a few scratches, but for the most part their heavy fur protected them when they went through the glass. Right now they’re wrestling each other. When my girlfriend is around though, Corin picks up his bandaged paw, limps around on three legs and makes the most pitiful little whimpering sounds you ever heard while looking at her with such sad eyes. He cashed in big time last night, she went to the store, bought him fresh salmon and fed it to while making a big fuss over what a brave dog he is. Then she leaves and he’s back down on 4 paws and running around.
So of course we all feel like morons for not reporting the Akita back when it attacked the lab, or even the second time after it got the collie. The best part is, the owners of the Akita are filing a report against me for having “vicious dogs”. The Akita was pretty much killed instantly, Corin got his jaws on its throat, threw it a good ten feet into the air and when it came down he and Theodora literally ripped it apart. Both Corin and Theodora are working dogs. Corin can pull 2,700 lbs by himself and Dora, who is a bit smaller can pull 2,300. The cops pretty much laughed off the claim my Malamutes are vicious, but I’ve already had animal control by today.
At the end of the day, if you’re a pet owner, socialize your dogs and train them!
If I don't see pictures of the situation I can't make a good judgment about whether the story is being exaggerated or not, but in my mind your dogs are several meters tall and breathe fire.
Sounds like those other people are asshats though.
but they have nothing on Barwis' wolves.
most states, maybe even yours, have dog bite statutes which provide statutory liability in such cases. this makes it easy to legally take it to people who cant control their pets.
ALSO, regarding pet wolves (or Chimps - as we recently saw in Connecticut) there is often strict liability for the owners of a wild animal that injures someone.
Long story short, it sounds like your neighbor needs Cesar!
Good news that the toddler is ok. I was watching animal planet for advice on how to handle our beagle puppy last night and they were talking about how important it was to socialize your dogs. It's sad that people get dogs and put no work in to train it.
Beagle puppies are absurdly cute evil animals. You need three things: time, fragrant treats, and endless patience.
Beagles have extreme ADD, especially when young. Any scent they pick up will divert their attention. The first several months have to be incredibly strict, and all about training. I'm serious. If the puppy is out of its crate, you need to be training it. The only way to keep the thing's attention will be with treats or a toy the beagle wants.
Set up boundaries immediately. If there are areas you don't want a sniffing dog getting into, separate the dog from them with fencing, enforce it with yelling "no", and punish by putting the dog in its crate for 15-20 minutes to reinforce the warning. You have to be strict as hell with a beagle or you'll have the most annoying dog in the world.
Socializing a beagle should be done in a controlled environment, following a training session. You want to keep your dog's attention. When the other dog or dogs come close, show your puppy its ok by having the other dog sit, shake hands, lay down, etc. for a treat. Then let your beagle sniff the dog out like it will inevitably do with gusto. Next thing you know your beagle will be chasing those dogs like gangbusters, howling like it's the lead dog on a hunt, and hopefully exhausting itself. It will be funny as hell. If your dog attacks the other, however, separate them immediately and punish your dog. Playful nibbling at the ears and neck without growling is not an attack.
"NYWolverine;" I disagree with punishing the dog by putting them in their crate. The dog should not associate punishment with their crate. You don't want the dog to feel their being punished everytime you leave the house do you?
When I was training my beagle and her attention really started waning, she'd be put in her crate to keep her from wandering and sniffing where she shouldn't be. When we picked up training again, I'd reward her for staying within her confines. She began to understand if she stayed within her boundaries she got to be out more often. That's what I meant by "punishment". When I had to leave her alone in the house when she was a puppy, I'd give her a treat before crating and make a fuss over her. She definitely knew she hadn't done anything wrong.
I think maybe people get too sensitive about how to best "punish" their pets. My parents used to send me to my room if I did something worth punishing. However, I didn't thereafter associate my room with punishment when it was time for bed.
Holy cow- i was expecting this to be the worst thread ever, and boy was I wrong, this is a tragic, but heroic story. I love how nonchalantly you say that your dogs destroyed the akita.
Your dogs seem awesome though.
PS if you don't have photos...MS Paint!!!
Sounds like your dogs deserve a medal (or at least another salmon dinner).
Akitas can be pretty aggressive if they are not well trained. Congrats on being such a responsible pet owner.
And what kind of work do your dogs do?
Umm, while the outcome here was certainly a mostly positive one, I'm thinking that dogs willing to jump through windows to attack another dog could benefit from some social training.
one could also conclude that these dogs are willing to jump through windows to save humans from being attacked.
Many breeds are naturally protective of people, especially children.
similar story happened to my mom's dog monday.
she let him out on a leash in the morning, suddenly she hears horrific barking. 2 pitbulls are on him trying to rip his face off.
somehow, my mom amazingly got the bulls off him, got my dog inside, without even getting injured. the vet had to basically sew my dogs face back on, 500 dollars in vet bills (plenty more to come), and my mom's dog gets to be miserable for 2 weeks with a drainage pipe in his face and a lampshade on his neck. not to mention the social damage done (he was always nervous before this, now it will probably be much worse).
frustrating to say the least.
the worst part is that the dogs stayed in my mom's yard, so the police were able to collect them. however, since they only attacked another animal the owners were able to release them with only paying the housng fee (like 75 dollars). the detective said he will try to get them to pay the bills, but since the owners are in detroit, i have a feeling theyre not just gonna hand my mom a big wad of cash.
really crappy. personally, i think the owners should be criminally liable.
Pretty crazy story. Question though: what do you mean "working dogs"? What do they do? And they can pull sleds that weigh 2,700 and 2,300 pounds? That is a lot of weight.
Most of the time the pulling is just a competition like this one. (Not my dogs, but that site has some good photos). Mals like to pull and they're somewhat competitive, so its fun for them. They both get insanely excited when I get the pulling harnesses out.
When I go hiking they both wear a pack and help carry supplies. Also useful for kayaking, they can help me portage the boats without much trouble.
Also when we have snow they'll tow the neighbor kids back up the hills on their sled all night.
Sounds like you're quite the frontiersman. Do you live in Alaska or some place similar? (This is a serious and maybe stupid question)
Ha, I'm one of those hiking yuppie types that just goes out into the wilderness for the weekends and my vacations. I actually still live in the AA region.
With my previous Mal, Viktor, I was looking at him one day and going "Wait, you're 90 pounds and stronger than me. Why am I carrying water for both of us and the dog food when we go hiking?" After that I found out there is an entire culture dedicated to training and working with Mals, Huskies and Samoyeds (plus some other breeds) to make them more useful while hiking and camping. It's mostly just long weekends hiking around on the UP or other areas and a week long vacation somewhere. The rest of the time they hang out in suburbia and scare all the dumb locals who think they're wolves.
My dog is mostly boarder collie and husky. She is a perfect dog for Laramie, Wyoming.
Either of those two dogs must be quite the challenge.
Did the toddler see your Malamutes absolutely destroy the Akita?
I'm not sure what the toddler saw exactly. I was at work, so I got kind of pieced things together based on what the mom said, the dead akita, my broken window, etc. The toddler did give Corin a big hug today, so he's not afraid of the Mals at least. Not sure what his feelings are about other dogs right now.
You have to teach the heel command at a young age and be an absolute prick about enforcing it or the dogs will end up walking you. I've rescued a few huskies and mals that were poorly trained and walking them, forget it. I normally end up having do one of those double leashes, where I take Corin and hook the other dog to him and let Corin pull the poorly trained one for me.
Mine are good, my girlfriend is like 110 and can walk them without problems. She likes to go jogging with them at night, stays up all night writing her thesis, then jogs at like 2 am because she's stressed out, so they're her insurance policy no one will jump her.
and still jogging? That's impressive. I'm 27, and jogging already hurts my knees.
To transport your dogs to Columbus, Ohio this November. I'll even throw in a salmon steak for every piece of scarlet polyester you find in their teeth.
The owners have bigger issues than socialization, what about criminal negligence? They knew this dog was a threat to the community yet they still allowed it to have the run of a yard from which it escaped twice previously? You might be a bad pet owner if you don't socialize your dog, but you are a danger to your community if you don't take proper precautions with a aggressive and violent pet.
I shudder to think what would have become of my pugs had they met that Akita. Props to your dogs.
Anyone else HATE when other people "walk" their dogs without a leash? So the dog is basically free to run up and torment my leashed dogs. A woman in my enighborhood does this, lets her dog roam free as she stands in front of her house and watches. I always encourage my dogs to poop on her lawn, you can guess wheter I pick it up or not . . .
My stepmother, who is a total C-bomb, always lets her dog roam around the yard freely. Although they have an invisible fence installed she does not feel the need to put the collar on the dog. She then wonders why people walking their own dogs get angry when her dog attacks them. Some people are so fucking stupid...
I encourage YOU to poop on her lawn.
Even if your dogs are declared "vicious", the only thing that will happen is you'll have to put up a "beware Of dog" sign somewhere. A small one.
Really though, this topic has further reach:
Be a responsible pet owner. If you own a dog, make positive that you have trained it properly and it is properly secured at all times. That means a fence it cannot escape from, or a tether if that's not possible. Socialize it as a puppy with other dogs, adults, children, men, women, bearded people, other races, etcetera. Last thing you want is a dog going crazy because it's never seen a bearded man before.
If you own a cat, don't "let it out". It will either be killed, contract/perpetuate feline lukemia, become or get another cat pregnant, decimate song bird populations, or something. Cats are indoor pets, and if they go outside, you should be there with them.
etcetera for other pets.
What if you own a spayed/neutered cat that goes to the vet annually and is up on all its shots? What do you do with feral cats that want nothing more than to be outside? We rescued two feral cats that weren't meant to be inside except when weather requires it. I.E. they spray/pee all over meow over and over at the door, etc.
We actually contacted several cat agencies about what to do about their behavior inside (they used to be indoor only) before one lady at a local cat resuce agency told us to make them indoor/outdoor...life has been good ever since.
Put them down. Feral cats are not native and a HUGE nusance. When you listen this summer, and you don't hear any songbirds, now you know why.
I was pretty floored by your response...spay/neuter release programs are actually pretty effective.
We rescued two feral cats from feral cat agencies (I didn't trap them or anything) and had them spayed/neutered and they go to the vet annually and are pretty happy...happy >dead.
but here me out. It's not about your cats' happiness, it's about an introduced species of predator and its defenseless native prey. I don't honestly expect anyone to put down a pet they've come to love, but if you choose to own a cat you should live with the consequences of keeping it inside. An article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/science/29angi.html?_r=1
In brief: North American birds have not evolved defenses to cats. Pet cats allowed access to the outdoors are subsidized hunters, fed at home and therefore able to hunt for sport, frequently resulting in a population density that could not naturally exist in other predator species. Allowing a cat outdoors shaves 3-4 years from its life expectancy. Letting a cat out = bad for the cat, catastrophic for the local birds.
If you love your cat, learn to live with the spraying. If you had a pet wolverine you wouldn't let it out, would you?
If I had a pet wolverine it probably wouldn't let me out.
Total agreement. I've got a Lab puppy that turns one on Saturday. It's our first dog, and we actively socialized him from day one. Now, our only problem with him is over-exhuberance. He is a total attention whore and has knocked over our nieces a couple times trying to be friendly. He hasn't figured out that he's 80 lbs yet.
That's in total contrast to the Lab across the street that tries to attack anything that he gets near.
Also leash laws--gotta have 'em and gotta follow 'em. It makes me angry when I see other dogs in the area off leash.
Last thing you want is a dog going crazy because it's never seen a bearded man before.The first thing I want is my dog to do crazy on bearded woman.
if you leave your dog or cat out there is 50-50 chance it will not make it back.
There are the gators, packs of coyotes, rattlers and bobcats.
Two years ago my neighbor's dog had $2000 bills for a dog bitten by a pygmy rattlesnake.
Last year, two dogs were attacked by coyote packs just a few miles from my house.
What part of Florida do you live in?
We're in Broward, about halfway between the coast and the Everglades. There's not too much in the way of critters here, but a little bit west, on the edge of the 'glades, I hear pythons are a huge problem. And on the other side, monitor lizards?
All these tropical creatures just thriiive here.
I don't hate dogs by any means, and I especially won't paint all dogs with the same brush but they just make me nervous as a rule.
I was attacked by a pit bull when I was 8. We were sliding at a friends house and as I set off down the hill the dog busted out of his cage, chased me down the hill and pounced on me when I hit the bottom.
I had 38 puncture wounds and few lacerations, but all in all wasn't too badly hurt physically. Ever since, however, I have had trouble trusting dogs. I am not scared of them, I just don't trust them.
I now have quadruplet 20 month olds and a neighbor who has 8 (yes 8) dogs of various varieties. She never has them on a leash and they run all over the neighborhood. I have come to know that rock salt in a shotgun does a good job of warding off unwanted dogs from your property.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to kill the dogs, but teaching them a lesson so as they don't return while my children are out in the yard is my main objective. Thus far it has worked, but if ever they do come when my kids are outside, it won't be rocksalt in my gun I can promise that.
I understand your worry, but that's unfair to the dogs. That causes unbelieveable amounts of pain, when they haven't done anything.
If your area doesn't have leash laws, go to the next township meeting (there should be at LEAST two a month), and demand it. Explain the situation, bring your children, show them a scar you've got, and demand it. They won't refuse. Then you can have the dogs taken unless she secures them properly.
It's not the DOGS' fault she's not taking proper care of them. Don't hurt them.
On that note, pitbulls are not dangerous dogs, but should require specialized licencing requirements to ensure they will be raised properly, because if they're not, they ARE dangerous.
but we have laws about dogs barking as well. I can also promise you that I have tried to talk sense to the woman (and her boyfriend) about keeping their dogs on a leash but it hasn't worked.
Not only did it not work, but the boyfriend and I got into a very heated discuaaion about what was going to happen if they didn't start taking proper care of their dogs. Problem is, as I have said on here before, I got in a lot of trouble in my past and any charge relating to violence could land me in serious trouble.
I have reported them 11 times before I took matters into my own hands. The SPCA and the police were both notified and nothing has been done.
Also, they have done something (the dogs) to warrant my response. They are on my property on a regular basis and have chased the neighbors (one elderly lady of about 83 while out getting her paper and two children age 3 and 5 while in their yard). I didn't mean to give the impression that I run around looking for excuses to shoot rocksalt up a dogs ass, just that I am not above doing it should a dogs behaviour warrant it.
I suspect there are laws about shooting peaceful dogs with your shotgun as well?
What in my comments gave you the impression they are peaceful dogs.
Listen, I can understand there are some dog lovers on here and I am not bashing them. I am saying that I have a neighbor with 8 dogs that have a history of chasing and from my neighbors accounts biting people.
Now whether you are a dog lover or not, attributing a the term peaceful to a dog that terrorizes a neighborhood isn't very accurate.
I have 4 20 month old children I have to concern myself with and any parent on this board that can honestly say that they would put the well being of a pack of dogs who have a history of chasing and biting people in the neighborhood above that of their children is lying. I would suspect even people who are dog lovers care more about their children, or maybe that's just me.
Specifically, you never indicated they did anything wrong but run around.
Call the police and tell them you were pushing your kids on a walk and one of the dogs chased you home and tried to bite you. Not just that it's a problem, but make it obvious that they are threatening. The police will come out.
And if you tell me you've said you were threatened by them (not just felt threatened) and they still didn't, then I don't believe you.
but honestly what you choose to believe or not believe really has little impact on reality.
I am little confused as to what you are asking me here: "And if you tell me you've said you were threatened by them (not just felt threatened) and they still didn't, then I don't believe you"
If you are asking what I have done before taking matters into my own hands I can say this. The law where I live is governed by the municipality who has a bylaw officer who looks after these things.
I passed him copies of 13 forms that the people on our street had filled out with complaints related to these dogs. He told me that under the municipal bylaw the SPCA is responsible for carrying out the "law" (they go to the house and decide whether the dog has to be removed or give a warning etc).
Countless times we followed this process only to have the SPCA give warnings to the neighbor (no fines which are also a possiblity). Finally, after I had to chase three of the dogs away from the elderly lady next door with a stick I called the police.
The police passed the buck to the bylaw officer who passed the buck to the spca who tell me to go back to the police and the dance went on and on and on.
Now, if you are an adult and have any life experience whatsoever, you will read this story and belive it because you know that this is generally the way things go when wishy washy bylaws get broken. Cops are too busy to care, bylaw officers don't get paid enough to handle situations like htis and spca are not in the enforcement business so everyone passes the buck.
Protecting your kids is more important than the "rights" of your neighbors' dogs. If people can't keep their dogs off your property, and the dogs have a history of aggressive behavior, well, do what you have to do.
I was beginning to think I was the only one on this board that thought a childs safety is more important than the hurt feelings (and sore ass from a dose of rock salt) of a dog with a history of bad behaviour.
It's a good way to tell who doesn't have kids, young siblings, or young nieces/nephews.
Any [________]'s rights end where another person's rights begin.
(insert noun of your choosing in [________])
My faith in the board has returned. Whew....that was a close one! I thought that since I was getting hammered with my first couple posts it was the general concensus. I am glad to see that I was wrong about that and only a few would put an animals wellbeing above a persons.
You're totally right that your kids are more important. Eight dogs is too many. They probably aren't getting any attention or exercise, so they go insane when given the opportunity. Having that many dogs is typically a violation of pet laws.