OT: Serious question re medical marijuana
I see the usual whimsical 4/20 thread is underway, but I thought I'd take the occasion to inquire if anyone has any knowledge of medical marijuana's effectiveness specifically regarding depression. A person dear to me suffers from this affliction and is growing weary of her pharmaceutical options, especially since the answer from her doctors has seemed to be "throw something against the wall and see if it sticks."
She's never been a pothead but she has tried med. marijuana in candy form and it seems to work for anxiety (she doesn't like Xanax). It's my understanding that the modern lab-produced pot comes in a wide array of varieties that produce different results (i.e. pain control with clear head, calm mind with no physical change, etc.). Any inights you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Yossarian
sativa is best for my severe depressive disorder.
But I cant say for sure whether it would help with depression. Some people get real paranoid when they take it. I've heard some people say it helped, but I also met a guy who smoked a shit-ton of weed who said his depression got better after quitting. But that's the thing, he took a ton. I went a week once smoking a little bit 3 times a day and in terms of my mood, it was the best week of my life.
It's hard to say because most of the sources when it comes to medical marijuana either believe marijuana is a miracle drug or it is a little less bad than heroine (according to pharmaceutical companies, the current attorney general, DEA). There aren't a whole lot of in-betweeners.
I did see a guy online with some really bad parkinsons get relieved almost immediately though. For some conditions, I do think it's a miracle drug.
Your friend might want to look into hemp oil extract. It contains no psychoactive like THC, but has the lesser-known compound, CBD. It's been touted as being good for both depression and anxiety. Relaxes you without making you feel loopy or drugged. I bought some to see if it would help my wife's migraines (we've tried lots of things) and she found it helps by far more than anything else.
Also have your friend try high doses of B vitamins, especialy methyl-folate and methyl B12.
All these things raise dopamine and serotonin naturally which those suffering depression, adhd etc are low in
Not all depression is from a lack of exercise, exposure to sunlight, or being the life of the party. Saying just exercise, go outside more, and talk to random people is just as unhelpful as someone else saying "just smoke a bowl and you'll be alright"
But then you end it with "but this is the most sustainable path to happiness."
April 20th, 2017 at 10:07 PM ^
For a huge percentage of the population that actually has been the most sustainable path to happiness. He might not have been correct in an absolute sense but I'm sure you don't mean everything that you say in absolutes either. And back to his original point, I don't think he was telling anyone not to seek other medical attention. He even said "my advice aside from the doctor stuff". He's just trying to provide some advice
And for that advice "not helping anyone", that is almost the exact advice that I needed to get out of my slump. Just because someone might not be receptive to something in the moment doesn't mean that it shouldn't be said.
April 20th, 2017 at 11:40 PM ^
April 20th, 2017 at 10:07 PM ^
For a huge percentage of the population that actually has been the most sustainable path to happiness. He might not have been correct in an absolute sense but I'm sure you don't mean everything that you say in absolutes either. And back to his original point, I don't think he was telling anyone not to seek other medical attention. He even said "my advice aside from the doctor stuff". He's just trying to provide some advice
And for that advice "not helping anyone", that is almost the exact advice that I needed to get out of my slump. Just because someone might not be receptive to something in the moment doesn't mean that it shouldn't be said.
As someone who has both suffered mild depressive issues and would have been considered a medium to heavy user of marijuana in college, I would emphasize that there is a big difference in the type of marijuana you get on the street vs medicinal. Smoking street weed in college often just made me more anxious and depressed. However, I have always found strong sativa strains you get from medical shops to have an opposite impact for me. It definetly helps relieve depression and anxiety for me, as well as provides energy and clears my head. Problem is that you can't really get medical quality sativa unless you live in a state where you have access. Most of what you find on the street is very indica dominant, so don't just go finding stuff from the local dealer. If you have access to some actual medical quality stuff, then I would its worth trying.
April 20th, 2017 at 11:03 PM ^
the laws are a mess... enforcement is worse...the industry is in its infancy...the products are varied poorly tested for safety/potency or purity...it's a mess.
The ability to truly study cannabis as a medical supplement or primary treatment is still 1950's-esque. It's not possible to study marijuana in this country given the federal laws and regulation and dependency of academia on federal dollars.
You've probably come to the best source on the internet for this source of advice... a sports blog. I joke but truly we are all on our own on this. At this point economics and not public health or science are driving the boat. Maryjane is a 7 billion dollar annual industry with projected growth to north of 20 Billion in the early 2020s. If your friend is depressed, have her invest in the industry... that will cheer her up (I hope she's not african american cuz the industry is too white for words at the moment and it's not easy to jump in.)
That all said...depending on what state you are reporting from (I hail from Oregon/Washington) her options to obtain and experiment are better than ever. My advice for your friend...
Buy a microscope and start looking at the stuff. Ask if it has been tested for pesticide. If she is going to use edibles... start with the lowest dose possible. Toleration is applicable to MJ use/abuse. Don't retake any edible until you have given the first dose hours to set in. Keep the candy away from kids (and pets.) Try what you want but ... Rick Simpson oil or ethanol extracted oil is dollarwise. It's not all the same either. Trust yourself and no one eff'ing else including me.
She sounds smart. You sound concerned.
Marijuana can/probably will help.. but it's not fucking medicine (double blind with risk profiles.) That said... the biggest stoners I know are six digit MDs.
Good luck to her and to you.
I'll take my negs now... with a drop of purple haze please.
Last bit of run on advice...Sativa == Activa. Indica == In Da Couch. CBD may be all you need...start there.
April 20th, 2017 at 11:25 PM ^
exercise imo.
I've battled depression and anxiety for years. Big pharma SSRI's never helped much but to dull the pain, anti-anxiety meds like benzos helped with sleep and avoiding brutal panic attacks.
Weed was a no-no for me and actually brought on panic attacks, depression, and worst of all - depersonalization or an outerbody type experience as if you are on acid or shrooms.
From what I've read, it really depends on the THC vs. Cannabis makeup, but I don't mess with it. I've heard Molly/ecstasy can help if your mind is just trapped and needs another very positive perspective but have never tried.
For me, the best "drug" has been a lot of exercise, like running until it hurts. It almost causes a transfer of pain from the mind to the body and releases a lot of chemicals/endorphins/seratonin in the brain that give you a more positive outlook. Just my two cents.
April 20th, 2017 at 11:34 PM ^
I'm a bit late to this party, so this may not be seen. I am not a psychiatrist, but am a physician who has dealt with depression professionally in the past. Your statement about throwing something against the wall to see what sticks is unfortunately not inaccurate. There are a lot of different types of antidepressants and different drugs within those classes. And unfortunately they each take at least 2 weeks before we can see any effect, so it is a slow process and can be very difficult.
As far as marijuana goes, it has mostly been said before. It is very hard to study marijuana for medical purposes because it is still classified as a schedule 1 drug, which is absolutely insane. But you won't find any randomized controlled trials for it. Might it help? Yes, it might. But it could also make it worse. We just don't know right now. Even the evidence for seizures and chronic pain is not great, and primarily anecdotal or just case series.
Also stated before, there are promising early returns on other drugs in this area, specifically LSD. Those are also early and need more studies, and are probably many years away from actually being approved for clinical use, if it ever is.
I am sorry for your friend. Depression is just hard. It is hard to treat, hard to be around, and I cannot imagine how hard it is to actually live with. I often get frustrated with my depressed patients, and have to constantly remind myself that it is not their fault, and I try to see it as I would any other disease, but I'll tell you it can be quite frustrating. And again, that is from my side, which does not compare to what they are dealing with.
TL;DR No one knows right now if it will be helpful or not. Sorry I can't be more help.
From what I've read most doctor's are under educated when it comes to nutrition. A good book for your dear friend is titled Food and Mood: Eating Your Way Out of Depression by Dr. Erin Stair.Kindle 2.99 or paperback 7.99. Personally eliminating for the most part grains and drastically reducing sugars from my diet has been spectacular for me. My lack of downer moment's have been noticed by myself and the people close me.
April 21st, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
There are different chemical consistencies within medical marijuana. Mainly there are additives to reduce potential adverse side effects such as CBD for marijuana induced anxiety.
I'm glad she is staying away from Xanax. It's 100x more harmful and the withdrawal effects are can be fatal. The only other substance with fatal withdrawal is Alcohol. There are a lot of ignorant physicians who prescribe Xanax still. Xanax is contraindicated in treatment for Anxiety disorders as is interferes with natural habituation to fear stimulus/stimuli and with exposure and response prevention therapy. Anyway, best of luck and refer to the link below are what you are looking for.
pyscho-active and "medicinal" alkaloids. There are over a hundred and strains are not tested but for THC and CBD if that. The strain names are bullshit for consistency and hybridization. Indica and Sativa have broad general palettes of each of the cannabinoids which gives them their character but eff that. There is real science to be done and no capacity to get it there.
The travesty that is our drug poilicy has made guinea pigs of us all.
There are very few politiicians who understand this. When the money hits the lobbyists it will be too industry stilted. We probably are not going to get science and medical knowledge in our life time. Look how long it's taken smoking to be reeled in. Once Big Weed gets it's fingers into Washington...you can kiss public healt goodbye.
In the meantime... buyer beware. More often people use MJ to self medicate and mask truly treatable ailments or fall into a toleration mode of over use that can be life limiting. Not everyone has the ability to understand that microdoses are better for you.
No offense Steve. I am totally onboard with your Xanax warning. Marijuana is not a great answer IMO. If only we could let science do what it does instead of watching anecdotal studies of people who are taking whatever "works" for them.
'Merica.
Can't say I read all the posts on this thread but if someone wants to read a fairly recent review article on medical marijuana published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), it is free for reading and downloading.
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2338251
The punch line is that no one knows for sure if it is effective for depression because there is not adequate formal research to say one way or the other (and I think there will never be). It will be hard to get a research study approved that randomizes people to marijuana until it is legal.
I would also look at this book https://www.amazon.com/Stoned-Doctors-Case-Medical-Marijuana/dp/1591847…. This is written by a friend of mine who is an amazing physician, very academic, journal editor but he comes at this from a hospice perspective. He is a marijuna advocate.
https://www.ted.com/talks/david_casarett_a_doctor_s_case_for_medical_ma… for a summary
From the JAMA article
August 12th, 2019 at 1:41 PM ^
Not so long ago I found out that marijuana can be used for medical purposes but I think that it's still beter to use cbd which has all the cons. And by the way, if you want to know more about cbd, here is a funny post that you will definitely like.
Good afternoon! A lot of research suggests the benefits of medical marijuana. I have nothing against it in person. Moreover, I myself sometimes used some smokable herbs. If you are interested in this topic, I strongly advise you to follow the link to learn more about this subject. In any case, good luck!
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