OT: Serious question re medical marijuana
I see the usual whimsical 4/20 thread is underway, but I thought I'd take the occasion to inquire if anyone has any knowledge of medical marijuana's effectiveness specifically regarding depression. A person dear to me suffers from this affliction and is growing weary of her pharmaceutical options, especially since the answer from her doctors has seemed to be "throw something against the wall and see if it sticks."
She's never been a pothead but she has tried med. marijuana in candy form and it seems to work for anxiety (she doesn't like Xanax). It's my understanding that the modern lab-produced pot comes in a wide array of varieties that produce different results (i.e. pain control with clear head, calm mind with no physical change, etc.). Any inights you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Yossarian
Depression can be a medical imbalance/organic damage. Depression can also be learned behavior, or a reaction to social/mental stressI said exactly this above. This supports my case. My case is the latter, but there are loads of cases of the former, and telling these people to eschew medical treatment and just go outside and play in the sunlight is garbage.
Just look at the success of programs like AA/Narc-AnonYes, let's look at the "success" of programs that are dishonest about disclosing any real statistics that could be used to ascertain effectiveness. We have no idea how effective AA truly is. Someone's going to hammer me on this because either they or a loved one likely has a success story here, but that's utterly irrelevant to my point. Popularity is not indicative of success. I find the "higher power" nonsense to be psychological enslavement, and believing false things for bad reasons isn't anything I'm about to support.
"I said exactly this above" : your quote: "Appealing to fiction to solve a medical issue is rather laughable. Grow back a limb with prayer and get back to me".
You said no such thing; you just gave a half-assed, condescending snarky response without acknowledging that depression (or many psychologic problems) is a multifactoral problem that can be genetic, organic, learned, etc.
"We have no idea how truly effective AA is"
Sure we do. Older studies (1960s, 1980s) found no difference, however, the randomization did not control for cross-over. Longitudinal studies have found an association with more active participation and abstinence. More recent randomized trials also have shown a positive correlation between AA and abstinence.
"I find the "higher power" nonsense to be pyschological enslavement".
Jesus, you're a condescending piece of crap. I'm agnostic, but I don't go out of my way to shit on other people's beliefs.
Jesus, you're a condescending piece of crap. I'm agnostic, but I don't go out of my way to shit on other people's beliefs.I didn't go out of my way. I saw bullshit and identified it. It's not my fault that bodies are stacked daily due to people believing false things. Children die horrible, painful deaths because their parents ignore medical treatment in favor of woo. I guess caring about reality makes someone condescending. So be it.
I never said anyone should ignore medical treatment. Also, I'd say that arguing that I said something that I didn't actually is going quite a way out of your way. Practice your reading comprehension and then reread my original post.
I never said anyone should ignore medical treatment. Also, I'd say that arguing that I said something that I didn't actually is going quite a way out of your way. Practice your reading comprehension and then reread my original post.
You just suggested that my original point of trying to find happiness within to help cure a mental ailment is not only false (thousands of years of evidence suggest its not false) but also BAD.
WTF.
Unless you're suggesting that I was trying to tell people to turn to religion. Which I wasn't and never did.
From a scientific standpoint, AA isn't all that successful, with a relapse percentage of more than 90 percent.
Nothing that I posted suggested that anyone turn to fiction to cure their ailments. I suggested people try to find happiness within (and that LOTS of people have suggested that because IT WORKS). It worked wonders for me and for others that I've met. Won't help everyone, then again, neither will pills.
But by all means, sit over there with your closed mind, because being close minded is NEVER dangerous.
She'd probably be better off with Psylocybin or MDMA, they both have huge potential for treating depression. Read up on it.
Psylocybin and LSD have been the greatest mental health compounds that I've ever consumed but they are NOT NOT NOT NOT for everyone. If you go down this road PLEASE proceed with caution. The thing about depersonalization is that once it happens it's real hard to come back from.
You're not wrong. I probably should have stressed to read up a bit more than I did.
April 21st, 2017 at 11:22 AM ^
The use of marijuana extracts (primarily CBD oil, I beleve) is *extremely* promising in epilepsy research, but it's still in clinical trials. My son was in one of those trials, and while we don't know for sure whether he was receiving the CBD vs. placebo, it was pretty obvious that he was getting the good stuff. He was largely zoned out due to it (likely due to an interaction with another anti-seizure medication he takes), but his seizures stopped completely - from 10-30 a day down to zero. Unfortunatley, it also spiked his liver usage (or something like that - not a doctor here), which was also due to interaction with another drug he's on. Because it was a controlled study, we didn't have the option to take him off of the other drugs - we just had to leave the study. Once it becomes available, though, we're getting him off the other drugs and trying out the CBD again.
With all that said, it's not necessarily the best treatment for all seizures. Do you know what type of seizures your nephew is having? If they're something called "Infantile Spasms" or "West's Syndrome", steroids are the most effective (gold standard in the US is typically ACTH) or Vigabatrin (don't be scared off by the vision side effects on that one).
Regardless, the best bet is to ensure that your nephew's parents are having him seen by a top notch children's hospital with a strong neurology department. Mott isn't bad in the Midwest, but your best bets are probably Lurie Children's Hospital in Chicago or Cincinnati Children's Hospital. Push the doctors hard, and don't be afraid to seek second opinions if treatment is not working. Controlling epilepsy is an art as much as it is a science, and sometimes a different doctor can make all the difference. A good doctor shouldn't be insulted or threated by news that parents want to seek a second opinion.
Just to let you know; You can't get your MMM card for depression. I suffer from chronic pain from Car accidents and Snowboarding when I was younger but the real reason I got it was for depression. I just used the chronic pain schtick as my excuse to get it for my depression. Make up something in regards to chroninc pain if you don't have an excuse because the PTSD / depression schtick won't work.
My wife and I were going through a rough patch. I went therapy but I needed additional help. My doctor prescribed Lipitor. It wasn't giving me the disired effect after upping the dosage after multiple visits plus there were side effects. Marijuana helped me in the past through some tough spots and I decided to get legal.
If you're looking to combant depression via cannabis many Sativa (day time) strains help. They usually make you feel content, energetic, happy, uplifted, euphoric, relaxed, and ready to take on the day. I wake up in the morning to Sativa strains. You do have to be a little careful though as Sativa strains can also give you a undesired feeling of anxiousness and paranoia if you medicate with too much Sativa. High CBD Strains help combant those feelings when they occur.
Indica (Night time) Strains can also help with depression. Indica effects the body more than where Sativas is more in the head. Indica makes you relaxed, sleepy, happy, and hungry. These strains are great before going to sleep or if you looking to chill. You can feel anxious and paranoid too if you medicate with too much Indica, So having some form of CBD help level you out. CBD is also great for pain.
Leafly is a great app that breakdowns Indica / Hybird / Sativa / CBD strains if you're looking to treat certain ailments.
Weedmaps is also a great app to find doctors to get legal, dispensaries to browse their menus, delivery services, and also deals.
I hope this was helpful.
+1 for waiting 8 years to post and then executing in such an informative helpful fashion.
You can get a MM card for many different things and those things are usually determined on a state to state basis.
Is for cholesterol - not depression. You probably meant something else. If you didn't, then that's why it didn't work.
I can comment that pot can be used to increase anxiety in people and also cause some sort of paranoia. There are different strands thought that are used for different things. Pot high in CBDs are made mainly for pain. There are also kinds that make you high as hell, Weed has many postive uses and should imo be legal. That being said the chemical makeup does have similar qualities to that of LSD. So who knows. They have also used Ketamine for depression and foound that works great for people and instantly. I dont have the study link off hand but pretty sure the people who had these treatments had major depressive disorders and were resistant to the antidepressants out there.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I believe at its heart depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain, but it sends a person on a spiral downward that consumes every aspect of a life and is hard to stop. Bad feelings beget bad feelings, beget listlessness, poor diet, and lack of excercise, etc. She just gets buried under it. Depression is a tricky motherfucker, and it really just consumes a person's soul--literally like a possession. I think she should try a more naturopathic approach--and I consider marijuana to be a part of this approach, provided it does not in itself become an addiction. I think you have to find a way to chemically hold it at bay and then stay on top of it through healthy living. Once it gets its hooks into a person, well, it is understandable how thoughts of suicide become louder and louder.
Omega 3's (1000mg to 2000mg per day of the EPA variant in particular) are worth trying. They work best when combined with a healthy dose of fruits, veggies, and exercise...but duh of course.
Personally I think weed legalization out here in Colorado has improved both lives and economy but I am glad other states are coming on board because also feel it is a case of can have too much of a good thing.
Lexapro almost led me to take it.... 10 years later and medical marijuana still combats the existential dread and bouts of major depressive disorder better than anything else I have tried. Don't let any of the many many doubters that think you just want to get high dissuade you.... those people don't actually care whether you live or die.
As someone with some experience with both, I'd tell you that weed can help occasionally -- but chronic use can come with its own pitfalls. Weed tends to be de-motivating and spur fatigue and general societal withdrawal. If she's gonna use it, she should choose her spots. Sativa tends to be better for depression and indica for anxiety. But tread gently.
I've never tried medical marijuana as a treatment, so I can't comment on its effectiveness. But if your wife is looking for treatment options aside from pharma, I highly recommend meditation. I took a vipassana meditation class a few years ago, and it's developed into a regular practice. I've had some breakthroughs while sitting in meditation that have totally changed how I relate to my thoughts and emotions. It got me out of some really self-destructive cycles.
My depression and anxiety are environmental, not chemical, so meditation and mindfulness are excellent practices for mitigating these.
LMAO, you are the same guy that told me religion and philosophy were fiction that shouldn't be spread and here you are spreading practices about finding happiness within and those practices were rooted in religion and philosophy. Nice job dude. Better watch out, you see your own advice as dangerous.
Try reading INTO what I'm saying rather than just one word after another.
As I said in my very first comment that you jokers apparently ignored, depression can be environmental or it can be due to a physiologial chemical imbalance.
Environmentally triggered depression can definitely be mitigated with meditation and mindfulness, which are both what you get when you take some Eastern religious practices and strip out all the woo-woo. I see this whole "critical thinking" thing is hard.
Chemical imbalances can't be fixed by religion or "thinking better" or "lifestyle choices" or any of that. You basically took a shit on the entire idea of pharmaceutical treatment upthread, which is something I don't wish to leave unchallenged.
I've been consistently making this distinction and yet somehow you're still lost.
I think you went at him claming he was bringing religion into the conversation when he really meant exactly what you just posted above. That's how I'm sort of seeing this play out.
meditation/mindfulness, etc. = finding yourself within (what he said above)
In your very first post your only connection between the chemical imbalance and any other causation was, "tons of depression cases are due to a chemical imbalance". So, lets not overexaggerate. On top of that, nowhere did I say you didn't say or believe those things.
Nowhere did I say anything about the pharmaceutical industry except, "pills wont fix everything". That is literally all that I said about it.
In your first post you said that I was spreading dangerous nonsense. Your quote was, "Tons of depression cases are due to a chemical imbalance. No amount of navel-gazing is going to fix that. You are spreading dangerous nonsense."
Ok, so, We've established that not once have I said anything about the pharmaceutical industry. I have also never told anyone not to seek therapy or medical treatment. What I did suggest was, "get enough sleep, exercise/physical activity, eat clean/healthy, meditation, and something to make you grow personally". I also suggested that people with depression try to find happiness within.
I then said that many religions AND philosophies say that you should do the same thing, I said this because lots and lots of people have found this effective enough of a tool for treating many mental ailments that it has become a popularly supported method. There are easily accesable factual studies showing this to be true. Nowhere did I say anyone should turn to religion, I am NOT religious nor pro religion.
I'm VERY aware that many people practice meditation as a method of peace and that this practice has been stripped of it's original reliigous connection. I DID however point out the irony that you found my post "DANGEROUS" yet later on suggested that people do the VERY SAME THING in using meditation to treat depression. Which, ya know, meditation is a tool for internal peace and happiness.
For being so wrong you have been so condescending. My thoughts aren't dangerous, you're just an idiot who needs to make shit up to support your argument or give yourself a platform for whatever cause you need to champion. Fuck off.
Thank you for mentioning the schizophrenia. Since the MMJ/legal MMJ comes with a lot of self-dosing, it is very important for people to know whether it is okay for them in the first place and my understanding is that cannabis and schizophrenia do not mix well.
have worked wonders for me, we simply aren't outside enough anymore.
I have very few down periods when my D levels are in the normal range.
good old fashioned physical exertion? mountain biking? running? swimming? I do know a little about this (professionally) and my first suggestion was always some sort of physical exertion. You'd be surprised how often this worked. Even some people who were already on meds got off them once they started working out hard.
A good hard workout releases natural chemicals in the body that can alleviate anxiety, depression and a few other maladies.
Poster above was correct with the sativa suggestion.
I'm well aware that excercising when you're depressed is easier said than done, but it's a great help in my experience. I'd choose a very easy goal if she has trouble getting started, like walking .5 miles a day. She should set goals that she'll almost surely meet in order to minimize the chance of becoming discouraged. Not everyone has to be a marathon runner.
I should add that I'm not a doctor and that I don't mean to suggest that excercise is all that is needed for the OP's friend or anyone else. But as someone who's struggled with depression, I wish I'd started working out sooner than I did.
Well controlled trails are generally need to determine if a treatment helps, hurts or does nothing. Unfortunately, we have virtually no such trials for MJ for anything other than it decreases cognative ability acutely. Trials of other proposed "natural" treatments have almost all been negative or shown net harm, which demonstrates that anecdotes are a poor substitute for good science.
April 20th, 2017 at 10:00 PM ^
I'm not disagreeing with a lot of this, but what other types of "natural" cures are you lumping MJ in with. If it's anything like I imagine then MJ is nothing like those.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cannabis+depression
Pubmed is one of the internet wonders of the world
Do not expect any solid, scientific evidence regarding this drug. Conducting research in this area is very problematic.
Marijuana makes you high - many people like that feeling.
What those effects are over a large population is poorly understood.
Do not expect many "mainstream" medical doctors will prescribe it recommend marijuana as a therapy.
Honestly it's different for everyone. In my case I prefer a full Sativa for depression. It keeps my mind sharp,elevates my mood, and at the same time keeps me active so I don't have time to dwell pas traumatic events.
But some people with depression different than mine might not care for that kind of effect. Her best bet would be to consult a cannabis friendly doctor to see what would be best for her, or even if it would be best for her at all.