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And suddenly this is a match... Serena might actually be in jeopardy here...
I don't think there's enough appreciation nowadays for how dominant Graf was in her time. She probably had the six greatest seasons ever, on the women's side.
In 1987 she played in 13 tournaments, made the final of all 13, won 11. She also won Fed Cup paired with Claudia Kohde-Kilsch (which is another way of saying she basically won it alone).
In 1988 she won all four slams, plus an Olympic gold. She did lose to Sabatini in the semis of two tournaments along the way, though, and only won 11 of 14 tournaments.
In 1989 she played 16 tournaments, made the final of all 16, won 14.
That's three seasons with a perfect 156-0 record in QFs and earlier, 41-2 in semifinals, 36-5 in finals. There's never been anything like it and probably never will be. Even Federer had the occasional early round loss in a lesser tournament.
I think Graf gets diminished in retrospect b/c of Seles' stabbing. I doubt Graf gets to 22 if Seles wasn't prematurely taken out of the picture.
Or she might have decided she didn't want a family so badly after all, continued playing in her 30s, and won 30-35. The very worst thing this calculation can do to her career, if you assume Seles was incomplaraly the greatest player ever and would have won every match between the two of them, is leave Graf with ten consecutive years in the top 2 but behind Seles in six of them.
The three seasons I listed were against Navratilova and Evert et al; Seles wasn't even in the picture yet. If the stabbing diminishes her accomplishments in those years it says more about the observer than it does about the accomplishments.
Take it up with the analysts. The fact of the matter is no one knows what would happen, but Graf dominated her opposition before young Venus came around.
One could argue there was no competition similar to now with Serena vs the field or that Graf (and Serena) was just that good.
The latter argument in Graf's case could be disputed given Seles just like how Henin retiring removed Serena's biggest rival.
I'm just offering up different points I've heard/gathered over the years.
...Seles's stabbing in 1993 can't possibly have had any impact on the level of competition Graf faced in 1987-1989, and those were the seasons I detailed.
That's fair.
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Of course you do.
why do you hate serena?
And she was born in Saginaw!
No... for all the revisionist historians out there, this is an example of what people hate about Serena.
Spare me the elitism. You don't think other stars aren't thinking the same thing? Serena is just more vocal about it. That women has accomplished more and overcame more bigotry than you or I could imagine. Save your displeasure for something that matters.
Wanting someone to be accountable for their actions is "elitism'?
What does JM have to do with it? The topic at hand is Serena. Let's stay on topic, and then if you want to spin things, start a new line of thinking once the original one is finished.
What was your SAT verbal again?
Seesh!
Majors. Great match so far.
She has taken control of the last set. Going for her 20th slam, 2-shy of Graf´s record.
4 shy of Court's. I doubt she reaches 24 tho.
Saying someone is juicing does NOT make them a bigot. You fucking need to learn the definition of the word before you throw it around with such loose lips.
SanDiegoWolverine was responding to a comment that was deleted.
Why would that make you LOL? Personally, I think it's pretty cool to see an athlete - especially a native English speaker - learn to communicate in other languages. It's easy for us to get lazy and assume everyone speaks our language.
Serena's definitely made major strides in speaking French over the years. She also knows some Italian.
I never really see American athletes speaking other languages outside of a few sentences. Just caught me off guard. (or had many opportunities to see them speak other languages)
It was cool to watch and a classy gesture obviously.
I'm surprised any time an American of any kind speaks another language. It's not something we're known for being into.
I think that's the first time someone put Serena and classy together in the same thought.
We get it. You don't like Serena b/c she happens to speak her mind and you like your athletes all boring and quiet 24/7. 1 outburst and she's done for in your book. I bet you didn't give 2 shits when McEnroe would go off on everyone and their mother back when he played.
Save your negativity for a place that cares.
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I would think she would know a foreign language or two by now.
I dunno, once I become fabulously wealthy I plan to have other people do that for me.
It's a remarkable era in tennis. On the women's side we have Serena absolutely cleaning up while on the men's side we are on the verge of having a third active player win the career Grand Slam, which is incredible.
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