OT - Scout v. Rivals

Submitted by Sommy on
Okay, I just wanted to post this thread just to see what everyone's opinion is on the matter, and why. I understand that by and large, people seem to think that Rivals as a recruiting service is better at projecting success at the college level (meaning that their rankings tend to be more accurate). I would guess that this is not just a function of our class ranking this year on both sites (since Rivals ranks us much higher, obviously), since I've been reading for years that Rivals is more reliable even though Scout has/had ranked our past several classes higher, so I'm guessing this is an unbiased opinion. But why? In all honesty, I'm curious if this opinion is really based on fact or not. I don't know -- I tend to believe that Rivals is a more accurate service, BUT in looking over a few of the past recruiting classes, it seems almost like as far as boom/bust guys went, they were at least pretty even. Scout was much, much higher on Adrian Arrington and lower on Carlos Brown, Greg Mathews (not knocks on any of these players, but we're looking at guys who were top 100 to Rivals and low four star to three star guys to Scout who have been alright at best). At the same time, Scout was rather low on Shawn Crable, who obviously turned out to be pretty good. Obviously, the sample size is not big enough to make a comparison -- but you get the idea. What do you guys think and why?

TomVH

January 30th, 2009 at 6:31 PM ^

This stuff is a lot of hit or miss really. I don't really look at the team rankings on either, as much as I do the individual rankings. I sometimes feel like Scout purposely tries to differentiate themselves from Rivals, and won't change it (i.e.-They had Anthony LaLota ranked as an OL, even after he had committed as a DE prospect. They just recently changed it). I tend to look at the kids ranked from the top 40-200. The top prospects are usually pretty similar to a point. So, the 40-200 will give you a good picture of really how they rank players, because there's a lot more judgement involved with the ranking. Just from what I've seen there doesn't seem to be a clear reason for the madness on Scout. I've said this before, but I only look at Scout for videos, I have never taken any credence to the rankings on there. I couldn't tell you where Michigan is ranked on Scout, nor do I care.

Brian

January 30th, 2009 at 7:09 PM ^

FTR, I use Rivals ratings when doing research mostly because their site is way easier to use. As far as rankings go: whichever site likes Michigan's class better is more accurate.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

January 30th, 2009 at 8:42 PM ^

I think Rivals is more thorough. Scout lets more guys fall through the cracks. Rivals not only seems to have a larger database but they do a lot better job of following up on players and keeping tabs on their recruiting. A guy will be listed as a "prospect" on Scout long after he's narrowed that school off his list. Scout also doesn't rate the players. They just rack-and-stack by position, and hand out stars. Rivals gives you a rating so you can tell the difference between a low three-star and a high three-star. Finally - and this is key - Scout doesn't even have all their info straight. The UVA commitment list is missing Tim Smith, who committed back in October, and lists RB Jontel Evans....a point guard who has no intention of playing football at UVA. I'm sort of tempted to do a "who's more accurate" project but I don't think there's any point. There's so many variables that go into whether a prospect develops properly, that make that too much of a dartboard exercise. Rivals is easier to use, less sloppy, more thorough, and more detailed. Whether or not a five-star recruit pans out (or a two-star, for that matter) is kind of irrelevant - those guys tend to have five-star offer lists and five-star high school careers anyway, and I thin the blame for one going bust (for example) falls on the coaches, injuries, and the recruit himself long before it falls on the recruiting services for "erroneously" labeling him a five-star. The same for a two- or three-star who goes on to a stellar career.

brad

January 31st, 2009 at 12:04 AM ^

is that they at least attempt to be rational with their rankings. One of their moderators once explained that they treat each recruiting class kind of like a mock NFL draft. So, there are usually around 32 Rivals five star guys, and these are the ones that they predict will end up as first round draft picks four years later. You can extend that and say guys that get a 6.0 would be something like projected first day picks, and the top 250 would be projected to be drafted, period. With Scout it is not as easy to see where the cutoff from five stars to four stars makes any sense. Right now they have 50 five stars. As far as comparing individual rankings, like Dre Kirkpatrick for example, I have no idea who could be right.

Farnn

January 31st, 2009 at 1:14 AM ^

Not only does Scout have 50 5 stars this year, they always have 50 five stars. Rivals has more in the 30-35 range not a set number. That to me is another reason to trust Rivals more, as each years class will differ and having a set # of 5*s is stupid as it means there is a lack of continuity from season to season.

Sommy

January 31st, 2009 at 3:09 AM ^

While I get why it's good they have variance in their number of five star recruits, I think we've all agreed that the designation of a number of stars is not really that meaningful. Is there really that big of a difference between a low five-star's ranking and JT Turner's ranking as a very, very high four-star? If anything, it's more meaningful that Rivals applies somewhat of an analog rating system (IE: a high four star is a 6.0 while a five star is a 6.1, etc -- not terribly meaningful, but more reliable than what Scout does).

Magnus

January 31st, 2009 at 12:23 PM ^

I'm not sure I understand the question as related to Turner. Is there any difference between a low 5-star guy and a high 4-star guy? I don't know. Is there any difference between the 30th pick in the draft and the 35th? Obviously, the 5-star guy is considered better. By a slight margin. It's like picking anything - schools, menu items at dinner, girls, your route to work, etc. You pick one, often by slight margins.

baorao

January 31st, 2009 at 8:35 AM ^

but if you apply the Scout model to a smaller scale and (for example) say that they allot the state of Michigan three 5-star player each year and then you look at this year's class you can see how that would unnecessarily disrupt the year to year continuity of their talent evaluation. Assuming they agree on the 30 5 stars that Rivals evaluates, they still need to produce 20 more, and you can be sure the first thing they do is look at California, Florida and Texas because those upgrades will be the least suspicious. That being said, I don't really have any evidence to back this up its just my opinion, but I think it does illustrate the inherent flaws with the way Scout seems to operate. The other thing worth noting is that at least on Rivals, the fifth star has only been around since 2000. I don't know if thats been the case with Scout, but if Rivals did it first then this could be primarily a case of "keeping up with the Joneses" and trying to do it without looking like copycats. Also, the Scout site feels like it was laid out by a monkey on heroin.

baorao

January 31st, 2009 at 2:03 PM ^

one of the Scout updates says that he isn't going to Oklahoma, but that if they have to call it they'd say now that Texas Tech has pulled ahead slightly. Same with DQJ, optimism is down because he drove 505 miles to visit Tennessee this weekend. It appears that both of these guys are going beyond simple diligence and looking for a reason not to choose Michigan.

Magnus

January 31st, 2009 at 12:27 PM ^

When I was choosing which service to subscribe to, I chose Rivals because it's easier to use and it's less confusing to look at The Wolverine front page than it is to look at Go Blue Wolverine. I tend to find Rivals more accurate and less rumor-filled than what I've seen from Scout. And, like someone said above, Scout often has guys listed at positions that they clearly aren't going to play in college, a la Anthony Lalota (who's a DE but was listed at OT) and Shavodrick Beaver (who's a QB but was listed at WR long after he committed to Michigan).