July 31st, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^

Baylor banned dancing for the first 151 years of its history... they only allowed it beginning in 1996. LINK

Baylor's president, Robert Sloan Jr., decided in February to lift the ban on dancing, which is still considered morally harmful by some strict Baptists. But he warned students against being "obscene or provocative." No pelvic gyrations; no excessive closeness; no "Dirty Dancing."


My understanding is that a young Kevin Bacon transferred to Waco and made the town and it's hardline moralist preacher rethink their strict ways (see short documentary clip below). But I'm no historian.



July 31st, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^

To paraphrase Bill Simmons the Baylor rape story has reached the "Tyson Zone" where ANYTHING that's reported I immediately accept as true.

To be honest it seems to me that Baylor = Penn State with women instead of young boys.  Both programs placed football ahead of basic human decency and the coaches and administration both turned a blind eye, enabled and now it seems, protected the perpetrators of the crimes.

They both deserve the death penalty IMO.  The are cut from the same cloth.


July 31st, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^

See this is the kind of thing where Penn State and Baylor really deserved the death penalty. The whole culture is rotten because of the football team. Hookers, money, cars, okay fine. Lose a few scholarships and move on. But this? This is just reprehensible.

The Mad Hatter

July 31st, 2016 at 11:11 AM ^

And yet is completely unsurprising.

Parents, educators, student organizations, and universities need to make a serious nationwide effort to put an end to this bullshit.

If you're a victim of a crime, any crime, report it to the police, not a university bureaucrat. The school's themselves should have no involvement in investigating violent crimes. Time and again they've shown themselves incapable of handling the responsibility.


July 31st, 2016 at 12:15 PM ^

To your first point, every university is working hard to improve their response to these situations on campus (and some national legislation is in the pipeline to give extra motivation in the form of financial penalties).  Also, Baylor representatives are appearing at national conferences to improve their practices (and yes, it is awkward to know they are sitting and listening to people who are using them as a case study).  Oh, and some states have stepped in and require amnesty on ALL drug (and alcohol if you don't already consider alcohol a drug) use when that use is in any way connected to the event or the reporting of the event.

As for your second comment, it's ironically the position exclusivey held by groups looking to undermine advances in Title IX/sexual assault enforcement (some national fraternity groups have even backed away from this position because they did the research and realize what a terrible position that places victims/survivors in).  The way the criminal system is set up, prosecutors only pursue clear, slam dunk winners.  That's almost never the case in these situations.  And if you think people who are caring enough to go into education are worse at dealing with these sensitve issues than cops . . . well, uh, sure.  Also, the legal system is less discreet, and it's less flexible than a university system (which is good when people are trained and empathetic, althogh it's obviously problematic when they're not trained and empathetic).  And I've talked about this before so I won't go too far into it, but that something is a crime may still make it a civil matter (see the multiple OJ trials, one that lost (criminal) and one that prevailed (civil)), and may yet still be an employment/school/club/team matter.  I assure you that you would not want to live in or observe a world that says you can only pursue the arena with the harshest available penalties when seeking to resolve a serious problem you're having.  In that case, the school-to-prison pipeline would become even more expansive (and not just for marginalized groups).  That practice would drag in all of society when it comes to smaller issues (except for lifelong, pure saints), and there would be little to no traction on the complicated issues that often lack clear proof one way or the other.  And, and the article clearly says the person went to the police first, and the police used the school as a tool to silence the victim.


July 31st, 2016 at 2:08 PM ^

Yeah, the approach Grobe has taken on this is pretty sad. He could have come in, cleaned house, and said "what happened here is a disgrace, but I am the coach now and we are going to run a clean, honest program." Instead, he kept the entire staff and has downplayed the crimes. I can only imagine that he promised to go along with Baylor's company line as a condition of taking the job, and that he really wanted the job because he's never had a top-10 type of football team before and this was his one chance. Pathetic.


July 31st, 2016 at 11:39 AM ^

When you put sports over the human being you undermine everything that's great about sports. Ax the Baylor and PSU programs. Their success was built on the suffering of others, and they have no right to be out there on the field. Let the kids transfer wherever they want and burn them both.


July 31st, 2016 at 2:02 PM ^

I think the offenses are comparable, IMO. I can see an argument that Penn State's are worse because it involved young children and went on for longer, but in both cases you are dealing with large institutions that enabled and covered-up sexual assaults in order to maintain winning football programs.

Perkis-Size Me

July 31st, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^

I know the board has a strict no religion policy. Rightfully so. So I will aim to keep this as objective as possible, but I have to ask:

Baylor is a Baptist school. Baptists are widely believed to have a strict code of what they deem to be morally acceptable. Stricter than most. So I have to wonder, if there is a religious leadership unit at that school (like a board of ministers or a clergy), why haven't they spoken up about this? Maybe they have and I haven't been paying attention, or maybe they've tried and they've been silenced too. But I have to believe that salvaging your school's reputation, it's morals, virtues and ideals, and above all its religious code (which I'm pretty sure condemns rape) are infinitely more important than preserving the success of your damn football team.

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Perkis-Size Me

July 31st, 2016 at 12:47 PM ^

I hate making umbrella statements because I know not everyone down there thinks that way, but that's the line of thinking that warrants a program's death penalty.

That's a toxic culture from top to bottom that needs to be purged, shut down for a few years, and allowed to start over with a brand new, clean slate. What are we teaching future generations if all we do to punish these universities is give them a slap on the wrist, tell them not to do it again, and then move on? Make a fucking example of these schools. For these schools that love their football too damn much to do the right thing, show them how much worse it can be when they have it all taken away.

Another thing: how have the people that barred these women from getting help not been arrested and thrown in prison? The cover up is just as despicable as the crime itself.

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July 31st, 2016 at 3:51 PM ^

As a Baptist, let me try to avoid religious issues and deal with the policy principles here: Baylor is Baptist-Affiliated, but there is little or no oversight. In fact, the inability of officials and member congregations in the Southern Baptist Convention to influence and alter the practice and operation of places like Baylor has been a long-running source of disagreement, tension, and even full departure. (I am not a Southern Baptist and never will be FWIW, and I have heard from people who have left over that sort of root issue. It is worth noting that the name "Baptist" is used by a number of different groups who may not resemble each other in any way, much as someone in England talking about "Football" is discussing something entirely different from the football we usually discuss on this board).

Part of this is due to the lack of denominational structure--Baptists are congregationally governed by nature, so there isn't a hierarchy in the way that there is in Presbyterianism, Roman Catholocism, and so on. Any "structure" they have is loose and lacks genuinely regulative authority. Part of it is the nature of University-level bureaucracy and corporate governance in general.

BTW, Hatter, I will assume you weren't making that comment about Baptists in particular, because I think you're smarter than that.


July 31st, 2016 at 4:28 PM ^

Unreal...they essentially gave the green light to rape bec. it had to be common knowledge just how easy it was to get away with. And all behind the mask of a religious institution. Pathetic and shameful. 

Death penalty would be going easy on this program -- felt the same with Penn State.

Hornsgoblue (not verified)

August 2nd, 2016 at 7:18 PM ^

Another Baylor player busted today, this time for stalking.

These guys need to be shut down now.