OT: Refs in NBA finals game 3

Submitted by mejunglechop on

Anyone else get the sense the refs tried to swing the series to Dallas tonight? Miami played a very aggressive and athletic style. Points in paint went to Miami 40-22, but fouls went 27-14 against Miami. Edit (new stat): Of the final 11 foul calls against the Heat, 10 were not in the act of shooting. It seemed every time the Heat pushed the lead out to 10 or so they'd get called for a couple loose ball or ticky tack fouls.

wingedsig

June 5th, 2011 at 11:54 PM ^

Nowitzki did the same thing later in the game. I don't necessarily like it, but it is part of the game.

While I am from Florida, and have been a Heat fan since I was a child, I generally see officiating pretty fairly. I get upset if either team gets poor calls as I'd rather see a game played and called fairly, whether my team wins or loses.

That being said, I do agree with the OP for tonight. Officiating seemed to be on the Heat's side during the Chicago series, but tonight the refs seemed glued to the whistle when the Heat were up by more than 7 or 8 points. Happy to escape with an important win though.

wingedsig

June 6th, 2011 at 12:19 AM ^

I think the refs got that call incorrect as well. Not sure of the actual rule, but the ESPN/ABC crew was saying that it shouldn't have counted after the game. I guess the refs were making up for the unbalanced foul calling. /sarcasm

/not really

EDIT: Not to mention that ridiculous non-call on Kidd's traveling when he jumped into Wade (or Lebron, can't remember) and never even tried to shoot the ball. He took like 6 steps.

Jon06

June 5th, 2011 at 11:58 PM ^

i assume the nowitzki flop he's talking about is a play where the foul had nothing to do with nowitzki, although the commentators failed to figure that out until after they watched the first free throw and realized a black guy was on the line.

I Bleed Maize …

June 5th, 2011 at 11:56 PM ^

couple questionable calls but i think it was called fairly overall.  More interesting is when will people get off the Lebron is the best ever bandwagon.  he's not even the best on his team.  The only reason they win tonight is because of Wade.  And if Lebron would have given Wade the ball at the end of game 2 the Heat would be up 3-0

03 Blue 07

June 6th, 2011 at 12:18 AM ^

You objectively think Dwyane Wade is, currently (as in this season, not this series) a better basketball player than Lebron James, taking into account rebounding,defense, passing, and scoring? That's just lunacy. Dwyane MAY be a better closer of games, and even that is debatable, but I don't really think that you can say he's a better player. The reason they started 9-8 was, in part, because Lebron deferred too much to Wade. Wade's a phenomenal player, but Lebron is better at every facet of the game other than (and again, debatable) closing.

JBE

June 6th, 2011 at 12:37 AM ^

From what I have seen the Heat are obviously still Wade's team, and he has been the best player on the court more often than James during this playoff run and during the regular season. James make plays, but Wade has been making the important plays, and if it weren't for James's ill- advised jumpshots from the top in game 2, a game where Wade was outstanding, I think the Heat get that one too.

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 12:49 AM ^

Simply not true. Wade was their "closer" tonight. More often then not, LeBron had that role in the Boston and Chicago series.

It's is not Wade's team just because he got their first. The bottom line is this: LeBron James is the only player in the world that could leave a team and have them go from first to worst.

JBE

June 6th, 2011 at 1:16 AM ^

What do you mean not true? During large stretches of the season and during these playoffs, save a couple Bulls games, and maybe a Celts game, Wade has been the more impactful player, and I believe overall that he is the more complete and important player for this Heat team. That's why it's his team.

Also, you take Wade from last year's Heat team and they fall just as far. And the Cavs lost more than James in the offseason and dealt with significant injuries during this season as well, so that argument doesn't hold shit for water.

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 1:52 AM ^

Who else did Cleveland lose? Shaq and Ilgauskas are way over the hill. They traded Mo Williams only after they looked horrendous.

You minimize "a couple Bulls games and maybe a Celtics game" (it was actually two games in the Boston series where LBJ played closer, but hey) as if that is a small sample size, when in reality it is extremely significant. Being the closer in a NBA regular season game doesn't mean 1/10 of what closing out a big game past the first round of the playoffs mean.

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^

Have you been watching?

LeBron closed the Celtics out twice and the Bulls twice. Those weren't first round opponents. He flourished at the end of games, especially on the road and he has been as strong a closer as Wade during these playoffs. Anyone who has followed the Heat knows they have a "your night, my night" routine with Wade and James. Last night was just Wade's night.

I Bleed Maize …

June 6th, 2011 at 1:02 AM ^

When they lost those 6 or 7 games in a row at the buzzer it was because Lebron was dominating the ball at the end of the game and misses several late game shots.  When the Heat lost game 2 it was because of the same thing.  Wade had 36 points with 7 minutes left in the 4th during game 2 and Lebron decided he had to take fade away 3's and iso's.  And that's the reason the Heat lost. Wade IS the closer for the Heat.  And IMO Wade is the better overall player. And if you took Wade off the Heat and he went to Cleveland the Heat would have finished worst off than Cleveland so theirs no truth to that statement you made either.

bleedzblue

June 6th, 2011 at 2:48 AM ^

As much as I dislike Lebron he was by far the better player in the series against Boston and Chicago. He hit huge shots to close out Boston and then in the next series against the Bulls he did the same.  So far though in this series Wade has been the better scorer, but Lebron has been more of a facilitator.  He's really in a way, a 6'8 point guard.

goblue20111

June 6th, 2011 at 12:41 AM ^

Wade's smaller so rebounding is moot.  Wade is a much better defender.  LeBron has his highlight from behind block that SC anchors splooge over but outside of that he's an average defender.  Wade can play PG yes I do think he's a better passer.  Even if I'm wrong, what good is all that talent when you can't get it done when it counts?

JBE

June 6th, 2011 at 12:49 AM ^

Plus, Wade often outreboundeds James, as he did in this game, and as his has for this series. Also, Wade is on par or slightly better in assists than James so far in this series as well. James is a good player, but give me D Wade over him all day, talentwise, skillwise, and especially come crunch time or when some heart is needed, like, say, an NBA finals.

Trader Jack

June 6th, 2011 at 2:24 PM ^

For the regular seaon, Lebron averaged 7.5 rebounds per game, while Wade averaged 6.4. So far in the playoffs, LeBron is averaging 8.5 rebounds per game to Wade's 7.5. So... how does Wade "often outrebound" LeBron? And it's nice that for this series LeBron only has 3 more assists than Wade does (18-15) but for the season LeBron averaged 7 assists per game, while Wade averaged 4.6. And so far during the playoffs it's 5.6 to 4.2 LeBron. Also, even with the great series that Wade is having, LeBron is still averaging more points per game in these playoffs and shooting far better from 3 (38% to 29%) while only shooting 1% worse from the field (48% for Wade, 47% for LeBron). Not to mention that, in the Chicago series, when the Heat needed a defensive stop at the end of game 4, it was LeBron that they put on Derrick Rose (the reigning MVP) and he shut him down. Before each Finals game, ABC shows the team gathering together and it's LeBron that addresses them, so this notion that the Heat are 'Wade's team' is garbage. Wade is a great player, a great defender, and a great leader, but give me the better player (LeBron) all day long.

03 Blue 07

June 6th, 2011 at 1:45 AM ^

No, it isn't "moot." One of Lebron's advantages is being 6'8. That's part of the equation. And "Wade often outrebounds Lebron" is laughable; small sample size much?

I agree that this IS Wade's team. I also think they'd be a better team if they let the best player on the planet have it as his team, and allow Wade to do what he does best: close. They aren't mutually exclusive.

And to the guy who said that Wade is a better defender than Lebron, again, hilarious. Did you watch the Chicago series? Wade never guarded Rose; Lebron did, despite being 6 inches taller.

I honestly think a lot of this "Wade is better" talk comes from the fact that Wade is a far more likeable guy. Hell, he's not even a better perimeter shooter. If Wade got a consistent 3 point shot, he'd have a much stronger argument. Or, say, a 33 percent 3 point shot.

I Bleed Maize …

June 6th, 2011 at 12:46 AM ^

think Wade is better than Lebron.  i think Lebron ma be the best athlete we've seen in the NBA ever. But Wade is a better shooter, he's not 6'9 so he's not as good as a rebounder but he is a great rebounder and he plays just as good defense as Lebron.  He has had several blocks or steals that have been huge plays not just in this series but the whole year.  I just don' t believe Lebron is as great as people make him out to be.  If he wins a ring this year it will be because of Wade.  And it's not even debatable about the closing aspect.  Wade is a better closer than Lebron.When Miami won their 1st ring, Wade was amazing. And when it counts most he's playing amazing again. And i'm not a heat fan and i don't like Wade or Lebron.

03 Blue 07

June 6th, 2011 at 1:51 AM ^

I'm a Bulls fan, I have serious distaste for Lebron, and think Wade is a hell of a player. But "better outside shooter" can be quantified. It's not true. Wade has a solid J from 20 feet in, but he's worse from farther away (taking into account NBA 3p line is 22 feet to 23'9 at the top).

Further, Lebron is a better rebounder, passer, and scorer. These are also quantifiable. Finally, when Dwyane Wade is able to guard the diverse range of players that Lebron can, including but not limited to guarding perhaps the best penetrator in the game today, Derrick Rose (and why, by the way, didn't the Heat put Wade on Rose for key stretches or much at all when their body types are very similar? Doesn't that say something about the coaches' confidence in Wade's d vs. Lebron's?) then this "Wade's a better defender" argument will have merit, which it currently does not.

This reminds me of when I lived in LA and people would say that Kobe was better than Lebron. My counter was "no, Kobe scores more points than Lebron. At a much shittier percentage. And doesn't rebound or pass."  The game has many facets.

I Bleed Maize …

June 6th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^

one of those Lebron is better Kobe types too.  Get out of here.  if your talking today yes Lebron is better than Kobe because Kobe is at the end of his career.  But throughout their career's Kobe is the better player.  And Lebron has a good series against Chicago from 3 point range and now he's a good outside shooter.  He's never been a good outside shooter, he's a streaky shooter who will have a good game every so often from behind the 3.  But Wade is all around a better shooter than Lebron.  But there's probably no point debating this with you because you think Lebron is better than Kobe.  And i find that comical.

Wolv2004

June 6th, 2011 at 11:57 AM ^

This is quantifiable.  Lebron is a career 47.9% FG shooter and 32.9% from 3.  Kobe is a career 45.4% FG shooter, and 33.9% from 3.  They are basically the same, with Lebron actually being a bit better.  

Lebron also averages more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and minutes than Kobe by fairly significant margins and turns the ball only .4 times more per game.  I may hate the guy, but there's no denying he's the best player in the game right now.  He does everything well.

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 1:48 AM ^

Let me ask you something. What did Dwyane Wade do after 2006 before LeBron joined him? Let's review:

2007 - #4 seed in the playoffs, swept in first round

2008 - no playoffs, one of the worst teams in the NBA

2009 - #5 seed in the playoffs, lost in the first round to an inexperienced Atlanta squad

2010 - #5 seed in the playoffs, lost in five games in the first round



Contrast that with LeBron's accomplishments with a Cleveland roster that we now know for certain was stacked with bums (A finals appearance, another ECF, two other advancements to the second round, back-to-back #1 seeds in the East).

So who the hell says LeBron needs DWade more than Wade needs him? His ring is ancient history at this point and since then he's just looked like a guy who really needed another superstar teammate just to be relevant again. Yes, LeBron joined Wade's team not the other way around, but I think Wade playing in a cosmopolitan destination and LBJ playing in a dump had a little something to do with that.

 

 

codeBLUE11

June 6th, 2011 at 12:02 AM ^

Chalmers half court shot at the end of the first shouldn't have counted because it should have been a backcourt violation.  

That 3 points right there potentially had a major impact on the end, so I think the mavs and heat can call it about even.

mejunglechop

June 6th, 2011 at 12:16 AM ^

That's a really tough call though. There were a couple calls the other way that were beyond the pale (the no call when LeBron upfaked and Marion came down on top of him stands out). And that 3 is more than outweighed by the disparity in free throw attempts (12), especially considering the Heat were much more aggressive taking it to the hole. 

MGoBender

June 6th, 2011 at 7:12 AM ^

I was happy with that no-call.  Even though he got Marion in the air, LeBron initiated contact.  Marion jumped straight up and would have come straight down (didn't jump at LeBron).  If LeBron went straight up, there would have been no contact.  I thought it was a great no-call.

Rico616

June 6th, 2011 at 12:05 AM ^

Unless its obvious, I usually dont like to discuss officiating as an issue in any sport. To me it usually always comes from the losing side not because the refs caused them to lose but because the losing side wants an excuse.

Dezzy

June 6th, 2011 at 12:33 AM ^

So any "plot" against them was worthless anyways...especially since a call against Dallas is what may have cost them the game.  Theory debunked.

wingedsig

June 6th, 2011 at 12:44 AM ^

Or maybe, just maybe, Miami was good enough to overcome the so-called "plot?" If the refs had called Miami as they called Dallas, or vice-versa, I think Miami would've won by a lot more. Miami has dominated play throughout the series except for the last 7 minutes in Game 2, and a few mintues in game 3 (largely caused by swings in officiating IMO). Again, I'm upset either way if I feel the officiating was unfair. I just want a fair series so we can really see who the better team is. That's what sports are about, after all.

mejunglechop

June 6th, 2011 at 12:45 AM ^

No. The officials made dozens of calls after that that affected the final score of the game. Boiling it down to one play that happened in the first quarter (and wasn't an obvious call) is stupid.

M-Wolverine

June 6th, 2011 at 1:36 AM ^

Stern's pet superstar team? A team and a player he already had officiating prop up to a title to swing the league back star-centric. And in fact, against the same organization, with an owner Stern can't stand. If there's been any conspiracies for teams lately, they've been for the one's Dwayne Wade has played for.

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 12:52 AM ^

Not that blatant. The loose ball fouls that sent Dirk to the line got a bit much for a period of time, but that's it.

The only times I've watched a series and believed refs were truly trying to help a team win was LA-Sacramento '02 (particularly Game 6) and Miami-Dallas '06 (particularly Game 5). Most other questionable stuff I see I give them the benefit of the doubt because being an official isn't easy.

gajensen

June 6th, 2011 at 1:53 AM ^

In case anybody's interested for when the Pistons/NBA becomes the unwanted variety of OT...I visit another message board, www.wtfdetroit.com.  It's devoted to Detroit professional sports and Michigan college athletics.  My handle is lospistones :-)

I've been trying to get them to come over here to discuss U of M, too.

Sac Fly

June 6th, 2011 at 2:23 AM ^

The NBA is a bookmakers league. Anyone who thinks tim donaghy was the only ref who took money to swing games is crazy. The lakers shot 40 free throws against the kings in the donaghy series, and than I watched the heat shoot 35 a game against the bulls. It's a dirty league.