OT- Red Wings Free Agency/Off Season

Submitted by MGoPietrowski on

The post a few down about our boy Mike Knuble actually inspired this one. I have been thinking since April about who the Red Wings might pick up or go after this off season. I believe the free agency signing period begins July 1st, but could be wrong. 

On this slower than usual Thursday (for me at least), I thought I'd pose a few questions to the Red Wings fans on this board. 

1. One thing the #6 and #8 seed Kings and Devils have in common is their ferocious physical play. Those two teams threw more combined big hits in game one of the cup final than the preds and the wings did in their entire series (i may be exaggerating). To me, this proves that you have to be a tough, gritty and physical team to survive the long and wary post season. I don't care for Don Cherry, but alot of us including myself who made snide remarks on his calling the Red Wings "not tough enough" back when we were #1 in the league (before injuries hit) are kind of eating our words. Do you think the Red Wings will move for more physical skaters this year? What are our options?

2. With the departure of Rafalski (6Mil in cap room) we didn't really go and spend much money. Now with Lidstrom's contract space freeing up, do you think we'll go after a few scorers? I have heard rumblings of Parise and Nash, but there's really no telling. Who are you guys up in the D hearing? Who would you like?

3. Pertaining to question #2, losing Rafalski and Lidstrom took away our #1 and #2 D-men. Who will replace them? Suter? Weber? Semin? What do you MGoBloggers think?

4. Jimmy Howard. Thoughts?

5. I'm not calling for his head. But here is an honest question... While we brought the cup home in 2008, and lost in the finals in 2009, our playoff track record has been rather, eh, shitty. Second round exits in 10 and 11, and we took a step back and won only 1 playoff game this year. In your mind, should Babcock be on a hot seat? A warm seat? Scott free? I don't know. I try to remain level headed, but after Nashville discarded us this year, the thought of at least a 97.2 degree seat cushion crossed my mind. Maybe I was just butthurt.

6. Finally, who would you be willing to part with. even the fan favorites. As a former player, and a high school coach, i think we could get waaaay more out of Franzen than he's really worth. With guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the lineup, Franzen was our goal scoring leader this year. I don't know how this happened. He has a hard time handling the puck, and in terms of physicality he and Bertuzzi both lay guys out about 10% as much as they should considering their bulk. Who do you guys think we could unload?

Sorry for the essay. As an avid Wings fan, this is what I've had to ponder since our embarrasing and uninspired playoff performance this season. 

 

Also, I hope Kronwall is a Wing forever.

Jmilan

June 7th, 2012 at 1:15 PM ^

1. They do need to get some more physical skaters I believe. IMO they just need someone who is talented enough to stay in the lineup night in and night out. He doesn't have to be a 30 goal scorer, but a guy who will throw his body around and sometimes defend some of our superstars when need be.

2. It would be very nice to get Ryan Suter or Matt Carle. I liked the move last year to get White I think he will turn out to be a Rafalski type, as in being a solid defenseman, but somewhat underrated. I am not sure if there is too much left out there after Suter so maybe a trade to someone, but that is pretty unlikely I feel like and would probably have us on the losing side of a deal.

3. Again Suter would be the leading candidate, but getting him away from Nashville is not going to be easy. Kronwall needs to become the new anchor on the blue line and I think he will. Smith would also be a nice addition next year as well. I honestly think Brendan Smith is better than Ericsson, Kindl, and Quincey and his ceiling is higher than any of those guys at this point.

4. I think Jimmy is good enough to get us a Cup. I would however entertain the idea of dealing Jimmy if we could get someone else like Cory Schneider through a trade or something along those lines, but I don't think Jimmy is a must sell.

5. I don't think Babcock is the reason for our recent poor playoff performances. I think that he is doing a decent job for now especially with all the untimely injuries we have had the last few seasons. The only way I would think about bailing on Babcock was if it was apparent that the players were no longer playing for him and I don't think that is the case right now.

6. I would be able to part with just about anyone at this point besides: Datsyuk, Kronwall, Zetterberg, White, Helm, Eaves, Smith, and Nyquist. I would even possibly entertain ideas for Zetterberg if the deal was good enough. Franzen I think needs to get dealt, you could get rid of Abdelkader, Hudler, Cleary, and/or Filpula, and Ericcson is worthless I hated the deal we signed with him, but most likely if we didn't sign him he would've went somewhere else and played great knowing our luck.

Huss

June 7th, 2012 at 1:38 PM ^

99% of Red Wings fans are miserable failures at life, as evidenced by their same tired argument of "needing to get tougher" and all sorts of ridiculous roster ideas in the wake of a playoff exit.

The Red Wings are fine, the farm system is awesome, and no - they're never going to get as tough as you like.  They play hockey, and they're one of  the best at it.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you dont.  The job Holland, Babock and co. have done since the lockout has been remarkable - just look at the roster in 06 compared to now.  The parts are constantly shifting, but the priorities remain the same and the results always show the Wings at the top of the league.    

Now let's get back to talking about Alexander Semin as a possible replacement for Nick Lidstrom.  What a tremendous idea.

Jmilan

June 7th, 2012 at 1:46 PM ^

I agree with you that the franchise has done a great job of staying in top form despite changes from the lockout and other variables. I'm sure if baseball got a salary cap I don't know if I see teams like the Yankees or Red Sox being contenders after a cap was put in place, but since the salary cap the Wing's have won a Cup, President's trophy, and continually made the playoffs every year you are right we are clearly in great hands. This offseason is potentially the biggest change the Wing's have seen in over a decade however. In my opinion it may have some worried, but really maybe the question we should be asking is what next? This team has always found a way to adapt, but this is a change of scenery for fans young and old and it may be the most uncomfortable most fans have been in a long time.

Huss

June 7th, 2012 at 2:03 PM ^

The truth is a lot of the success we see from other teams is a direct by-product of nits they picked from our philosophy. 

I'm very excited to see what the young guys coming up in our organization will do.  If guys like Suter and Parise are out there, go after them - but I'd rather not spend 2 or 3 million on a guy whose only advantage over our current crop on the farm is their NHL experience.  Detroit is brimming with talent in Grand Rapids and the minors.  Given time, this 20 year dynasty we've seen could be extended to 40.  Holland knows that, and I'm excited to see what happens. 

And let's be honest, the Stanley Cup Finalists are nothing to emulate - the Kings were in the bottom 5 of the league in scoring all year long and scraped into the playoffs.  Funny shit happens in a best-of-7 series.  That's all you can take from that. 

Jmilan

June 7th, 2012 at 2:14 PM ^

You are definitely right by saying they aren't the teams to emulate. The King's are loaded with talent, but their first half coach was the reason for a poor start and Daryl Sutter has them playing at their full potential. We run an entirely different system than the Kings or Devils. We are puck possession, we dominate the flow of play and pummel the other goalie with quality shots, while not giving up many good scoring chances. The difference IMO from years past is that we did not get the quality scoring chances we needed and the D played horrible down the stretch. 

Suter I feel is more a "must have" if you will, more so than Parise. In the last two years we have lost arguably our top 2 Dmen. If we could land Suter we would possibly be in a better situation than the last two years. Suter along with White and Kronwall are still all fairly young and have good NHL experience. Parise is a different story however, he would definitely help us out with depth problems and goal scoring, but it would be a different system for him at first. IMO he is a Helm type player, but more smooth. He is a known goal scorer, but he flies around at 100 MPH and even kills penalties. They would both be huge gets and I also am hoping that guys in like Nyquist and Smith become more household names.

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 2:06 PM ^

i agree with a lot of what you said, but not the farm system.  Or maybe it's just the lack of high draft picks that is catching up with them.  Regardless, the Wings are pretty much devoid of young, high end talent.  Were this not true, they wouldn't be forced to give ice time to banged up, ineffective veterans like they do nowadays.  People are fond of pointing out how the Red Wings like their players "over ripe", but a lot of that philosophy has its roots from the pre-salary cap days when the team always had more star power.  Even so, Zetterberg and Datsyuk were easily recognizable as impact players in their early 20s, and Franzen was only four years removed from the draft the year he had 13 playoff goals.  I'm not sensing a wave of new blood ready to replace the guys like Homer and Lidstrom.  I feel like I'm seeing something akin to the Colorado Avalanche in the last couple of pre-lockout years. 

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 2:34 PM ^

Maybe they can contribute some day, but compare those guys to where Ilya Kovalchuk and Anze Kopitar  were when they were the same age (the leading scorers on the two teams in the finals now).  If they  were legitimate high level talent, then they would have or should have been playing this year when the team was loaded with injuries and looking like utter dogshit.  In years past, when the Wings had healthy first ballot hall of famers playing on the second lines, that wasn't the case.  Now, we've got guys like Todd Bertuzzi and and a not 100% Dan Cleary. 

Huss

June 7th, 2012 at 2:49 PM ^

That's your angle?  Well I'm sorry, but you're not gonna find Anze Kopitar or Ilya Kovalchuk in our farm system.  Or any farm system, save for them team lucky enough to pick 1st overall.

And newsflash:  Hall-of-Famers on your second line don't exist anymore.  This is 2012, not 2002 - you'll be lucky to have one on your whole roster.

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 3:17 PM ^

I'm not asking for a 50 goal scorer, but we don't even have a Woltec Wolski or Paul Stastny in the minors.  And it's not like we haven't needed one.  For the past three years, when the Wings have experienced a rash of injuries to their forwards and they have desperately needed some young guys to step up, they haven't.  When you consider all of the 21 and under players who have had a substantial impact around the league, it's not unreasonable to conclude that if a 21 year old guy can't replace a slumping old Todd Bertuzzi or an injured Dan Cleary, then he's probably not a future All Star.  And it's not a great leap to go from there to saying that with all of the team's best players being 27 or older (and many over 30), the future might not be all that bright.

Huss

June 7th, 2012 at 3:34 PM ^

admittedly ignorant about prospects in the Wings system, how do you know we don't have such players being developed?  I and another guy have already directed you towards a plethora of kids who are projected to be top-line players in the NHL - certainly on par with a scrub like Wolski. 

My guess is you have not researched this very thoroughly, and are thus banking on the results produced by prodigies like Crosby and Stastny to support your argument.  It's weak sauce, dude.  By and large, players who are 21 in the NHL are extremely raw and hurt the teams they're playing for - even if they're producing points at a decent clip.  This isn't rocket science - playing guys that young doesn't prove anything about your organizational depth, it often just means your desperate.

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 4:04 PM ^

"playing guys that young doesn't prove anything about your organizational depth, it often just means your desperate."

Yup, and the Red Wings were desperate this year at the end of the season.  Teams that suck as bad as the Wings did in February, March, and April throw their talent out on the ice even if it's young and not fully developed.  Old broken down guys like Tomas Holmstrom (who was a -9 and scored one even strength goal all year long) don't get minutes on a team that has good young talent.  But if you want to believe that the fourth liners and healthy scratches on a team that played like the Columbus Blue Jackets for the last third of the season are truly future All Stars and leaders of a Stanley Cup run (because somebody else said so), be my guest.

Lionsfan

June 7th, 2012 at 3:01 PM ^

but compare those guys to where Ilya Kovalchuk and Anze Kopitar were when they were the same age

Are you kidding me? Kovalchuk was the No. 1 Overall pick in the 2001 Draft, and Kopitar was 11th in the 2005 Draft. Of the guys he just listed, here's where they were picked: 121st, 27th, 51st, 141st, 111th, and 60th. Trying to compare them to a No. 1 pick and a 11th pick is a joke. By that logic, I'm going to criticize Justin Abdelkader for sucking. Just look at how what he's done in his career compared to what Sidney Crosby has done in his career

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 3:39 PM ^

It's not a joke to compare these guys when they  play in the same league against each other.  These are the guys that we are facing, along with literally dozens of other young, impact guys who have come into the league recently (Kane, Toews, Couture, Giroux, Versteeg, Hornquist, etc, etc).  That's the situation that the Wings face. 

I'm questioning the overall level of talent in the organization, not the ability of the organization to make the most out of its lack of first rounders and annual crappy drafting positions.  It is not my opinion that the organization is poorly run or underachieving.  It is my opinion that the organization's future is not very bright, because the past is catching up with it. 

bacon1431

June 7th, 2012 at 4:06 PM ^

Four of those guys you listed were top 10 overall picks (two of them were top 3). When was the last time we had one of those? Versteeg didn't make a big impact until he was like 23. Same with Hornqvist, neither of whom are superstars. Their production is similar to....wait for it.....Filppula. Giroux is the exception, not the norm. It's not like the Flyers and other teams are regularly producing multiple superstars through their farm system every year. Wings minor league system is just fine. Your argument is flawed because the Wings regularly picked late throughout the 90s and look where we were this past decade. Just stop. 99% of NHL players were not impact guys at the age of 20. Let the kids develop and play a little bit before you just assume that they're not top 2 line quality. The joke isn't in you comparing players in the same league. The joke is in you comparing them to guys in our farm system.

Hannibal.

June 7th, 2012 at 4:18 PM ^

Yup, those guys were Top 10 overall picks, and the teams that they are on benefit from it.  That's all that matters.  The Wings are competing against them. 

The Wings picked late throughout the '90s, but won the '02 Cup thanks in large part to a huge payroll.  They made  the successful transition from that era to this one, thanks mostly to two guys named Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  Everyone who disagrees with me openly acknowledges that there is nothing remotely resembling the caliber of those two guys in the organization.  Who or what will make the Red Wings a Cup contender five years from now?  If we don't have any immediate stars and we probably won't get any more late round first ballot hall of famers, and we don't have anyone under 27 who has shown themselves to be a top two liner yet, then I don't see why it is so unreasonable to think that maybe the Wings will struggle to win a playoff series for the next few years, and maybe even miss the playoffs. 

bacon1431

June 7th, 2012 at 4:21 PM ^

Nobody has players that quality in their farm system. Those guys usually don't spend much time in the minors. We have guys that quality on our team and they are signed for the foreseeable future. You're complaining about nothing. We have the superstars. We just need to fill in the blanks around them and that's what the farm system is for. And guess what? We've got some good guys in the farm system. Which you just can't acknowledge.

Lionsfan

June 7th, 2012 at 4:33 PM ^

If we were playing against a team made up entirely of Crosby, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Toews, Kane, Giroux, etc. etc. then I would be worried. But we're not. We don't ever play them all at the same time, and the times we do play against them we have our own superstars Datsyuk and Zetterberg to play against them. Yes, they're both older (but is 31 and 33 really that much older?), but not to the point where these younger players are dominating them

I'm questioning the overall level of talent in the organization

And the way you're doing it is flawed. You're looking at some of the best players in the world, guys who are instant contributors and comparing them to our guys who are playing in the minors. If you want to say the Red Wings team isn't as talented as some of the others in the league as long as they have guys like Homer, Cleary, and Bertuzzi on the roster then fine. But comparing guy's who have spent most of their very very short careers in the minors to NHL All-Stars is stupid. If you really want to compare the levels of talent between organizations you need to look at the whole story. Look at how their prospects are playing compared to our prospects. And when you do, you see that we have quite a few guys who are NHL ready for next year as compared to their peers

Huss

June 7th, 2012 at 2:24 PM ^

The Red Wings obviously don't have the high-draft picks to nurture the blueiest blue-chip prospects, but they have a substantial amount of kids on the farm who project as All-star caliber if things go right with them. 

Your point about the Red Wings playing their veterans is irrelevant - the majority of our prospects are under 21 years old and are in no way ready for the NHL.  Teams that DO play prospects so young are also the ones you usually see picking at the top of the draft again the next season.  And for the record: Datsyuk emerged as a 23 year old after playing in Russia's highest league, Zetterberg emerged as a 22 year old coming out of the Swedish Elite League(the best league outside of the NHL), and  Franzen was DRAFTED as a 24 year old before emerging at 26.  It's worth noting that 2 of those 3 guys are some of the best forwardsin NHL history, and using them as a barometer to measure our young talent isn't all that fair.

So you're overreaching a bit here - the only guys in our farm system over the age of 22 are Brendan Smith and Gustav Nyquist(I'll exclude Mursak since he's already graduated and seeing regular minutes) - both of whom are(SUPRISE!) ranked as top-notch prospects by every recruiting publication and seem poised to play fulltime next season.  Ipso facto - right on schedule.

Meanwhile..

-weve currently got Calle Jarnkok rewriting the record books Zetterberg penned in the SEL - as a 20 year old!

-Tatar has owned the AHL as a 20-21 year old.  Sheahan is making the jump in his year-21. Joakim Anderrson is a bit overaged, but expect him to be manning Detroit's checking line soon.

-Tomas Jurco is currently eviscerating all comers in the QMJHL.

-Ditto defensemen Xavier Oullet and Ryan Sproul(OHL)

-I havent even mentioned Petr Mrazek, who may be our best goalie prospect...ever.

And there's a host of others all doing VERY well in their respective minor league division and they're ALL under 21.  The organization is flowing smoothly, folks.  I'd recommend following this website for more regular info on your future Wings:

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2012/05/29/2700/expect-multiple-grads-from-competitive-top-11/ 

bacon1431

June 7th, 2012 at 10:18 PM ^

But are they as good as Kovalchuk, Giroux, and Kane? Apparently you don't have a legit farm system unless you have guys like those in the minors.

EDIT: Just looking at the list on the website, when a guy as skilled as Jurco isn't one of your top 5 prospects, you're in decent shape - at the worst. Probably pretty good shape.

KevbosLastingLessons

June 7th, 2012 at 2:13 PM ^

Despite the cynicism, I agree. The most outspoken Wings fans seem borderline clueless. I guess that can be said for most fans of most sports. The less knowledge one has, the louder he or she is. 

The Wings have been "too old" and "not tough enough" for 10 years now. They are the most decorated franchise in sports in the last 20 years. Let's pump the brakes. Kenny has money, and he knows what to do with it. 

Weber: not an option. Howard: not going anywhere. Stuart and Hudler are likely gone. Suter wants to test free agency, and the Wings have something that all the other teams in his price range don't have: success. I cannot imagine Parise wanting to stay in New Jersey, a bankrupt franchise that backed into the Finals. He and Suter can reunite in Detroit and write their own pages in the Red Wings dynasty. They will still need another d-man because I cannot imagine them being comfortable with Kindl, Ericsson and B. Smith logging regular minutes. I'll trust Kenny with that decision, and any decisions he makes for that matter. 

Also, Babcock is one of the best hockey coaches in the world. His seat is ice cold. 

Sac Fly

June 7th, 2012 at 1:59 PM ^

I'm surprised Pacioretty isn't a name being thrown around. He scored 65 points last season, he is 23 years old and making 1.75 million. His organization is a mess, new GM, new coach. This is the time to sneak in and grab him now, because he won't be there after the break.

BlueAggie

June 7th, 2012 at 2:59 PM ^

He'll be an RFA in 2013. There's no way they deal him this offseason. That fanbase will look at what Ottawa did last year and scream bloody murder if they settle in for a long term rebuild on the order of 3 or 4 years. In my mind Pacioretty, Subban and Price are all untouchable.

snackyx

June 7th, 2012 at 2:32 PM ^

There are some big names out there that keep getting mentioned that just are not going to come our way:

RICK NASH: He wants out of Columbus, where nothing is going to happen for a long time. Don't blame him--Columbus OH is no place to waste a career.  However, he has a mammoth contract and is not an UFA--it will cost a king's ransom to make the deal, and it would probably be, in the long run, too expensive.

SHEA WEBER:  He is the franchise in Nashville, and is only a RFA this year (UFA next year). I think Nashville will do anything to keep him--if he goes, what message does this send to your already shakey fan base?  I think Weber stays put--this year and next.

SHANE DOAN: This guy has been with the Coyotes since the franchise moved to Phoenix, has a ranch there, and is apparantly happy where he is.  I would be surprised if he doesn't finish his career in Phoenix.

Now for the blue-chip possibilities:

RYAN SUTER: The word is Nashville has made him a big offer, but he has not moved on it.  My guess he wants to stick his toe in the free agency pond and test the waters, where Ken Holland will be waiting with Mr. I's checkbook.  I think he is our best bet to sign.

ZACK PARISE: This deep playoff run of NJ does not help, but the financial instability of the Devils does.  There have been longstanding stories about Suter and Parise wanting to play together, so this could be an interesting angle to pursue.  The Rangers now have Marian Gaborik with an injury that requites surgery and may keep him out six months, so they are supposedly now in play for Parise's services.  To make matters worse, Parise's dad, JP Parise--a former NHL player--has recently said that he thinks the Rangers would be a good fit for Zack.  There is, of course, the very real possibility that Parise just resigns with the Devils.  Would be the best offensive pick-up, but there is no clear path to signing him as of now.

ALEXANDER SEMIN: He and the Caps are parting company, so he will be available come July 1st.  Prolific scorer when he wants to engage, but has a history of being the "lazy Russian" who does not always show up to every game ready to give 100%.  Speculation is he could be paired with Datsyuk, who would "educate" him as to the expected Red Wings work ethic.  If the Wings wanted to take a chance on him (and if Parise is not available), this could be a real option, and my guess is he is signable.

BlueAggie

June 7th, 2012 at 2:48 PM ^

Agree on Nash, Weber and Doan.  I don't get the Nash love.  You trade away 3 or 4 valuable pieces for the honor of paying one of highest salaries in the NHL and get production that is suspiciously similar to Jiri Hudler.

If Suter were to sign before Weber, I could see Nashville moving Weber's rights.  It all depends on where the salary cap ends up after the new CBA gets hammered out.  Nashville has $7MM tied up in Rinne and may not be able to afford all three.  In this scenario, though, there are likely to be numerious bidders and I can't see Detroit overpaying to the point that Nashville would keep Weber in the division.

bacon1431

June 8th, 2012 at 9:59 AM ^

There is the idea that Nash could produce more with having more talent around him. And suspiciously similar to Hudler? This was Nash's first sub-60 point season since 2007 and he had 59 points. Hudler has only gotten to 50 points twice in his career. I can agree that his contract is probably a little too much, but he's not close to Hudler. Nash is a top line guy and his production is actually pretty damn good.

Sambojangles

June 7th, 2012 at 2:58 PM ^

With Weber, would it be possible for the Wings to offer him a large contract (I'm thinking 8mil+) just for the sake of forcing Nashville to match and therefore handicap them financially for the next several years? They are a division rival and IMO the biggest threat to Detroit.

Obviously the key would be guessing a number that would be not too high that Nashville would say "ok, you take him and pay that much"

Lionsfan

June 7th, 2012 at 3:11 PM ^

I bet we'll see something like that. Nothing really serious, since like you said they don't want to risk Nashville going "Eh, whatevs, we'll take your 4 first round picks now", but something to try and drive up the price. Nashville wants him bad though, I don't think Holland would even have to offer up that much before Nasville matched