OT: Probably No NBA Season

Submitted by smwilliams on November 14th, 2011 at 2:08 PM

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says

Players reject the owner's latest proposal and will seek to decertify and file an anti-trust lawsuit. Regardless of if the players win or lose the suit, the 2011-12 looks extremely likely to go the route of the 1994 World Series or the 2004-05 NHL season.

As a Bulls fan, I'm bummed, because I love watching Derrick Rose play and the team is a contender.

Pistons fans, general sports people, will you guys miss the NBA this year?

Who's to blame for the situation: the owners or the players?

Comments

ken725

November 14th, 2011 at 2:38 PM ^

Don't the owners sign-off on the contracts? 

They are also instituing this rule where you can take one years salary off the books so that it doesn't count towards the salary cap.  This is equally stupid because GMs can make these stupid offers without the consequences. 

El Jeffe

November 14th, 2011 at 3:42 PM ^

Yeah! How dare those players allow themselves to be overpaid. Why, when it comes time to sign on the dotted line, the players should say "Pardon me, Mr. and Mr. Maloof. There seems to be some sort of clerical error here. I believe there is one too many zeroes where it says 'offer terms.' Please correct it forthwith and I'll be happy to sign!"

ken725

November 14th, 2011 at 2:33 PM ^

I don't give two craps about the NBA other than wanting former Michigan players to be successful. 

I would rather watch Michigan basketball anyday.

Also this means that I wont have to deal with the insufferable Lakers fans that I am surrounded by.

Picktown GoBlue

November 14th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^

in the company where I work.  Sure, the owners got themselves into a mess where they're losing money faster than it was coming in.  But playing hardball and asking for more of it isn't a recipe for success for the overall enterprise.  Wasn't going to tune until the playoffs anyways, so no skin off my nose for these folks to take another 7 months of doing nothing and 1 month of negotiating to finally have a season next year....

To further the analogy, we've got 500 working here where there used to be 6000 - I'm guessing that some franchises won't make it so there will be some contraction as well before they start playing again.

Love that college bball!

Hardware Sushi

November 14th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^

I love how much this board hates the NBA.

The NBA cancelling its season would be incredible. More pub for hockey and less talk & analysis about something I care absolutely nothing about. Hopefully Michigan basketball will have a good season.

Unfortunately, ESPN will now be shoving other crap down our throats (WNBA, bowling, etc.).

bosox1519

November 14th, 2011 at 4:10 PM ^

Here's the thing that most people on this board don't understand: Outside of some Midwestern states and Massachusetts, people don't really care about hockey so it's still not going to get a lot of coverage on ESPN. Most NBA fans don't like hockey so why would they suddenly start watching more hockey? If anything college basketball will see a boost. NOT the NHL.

gmoney41

November 14th, 2011 at 5:51 PM ^

I am not a hockey fan at all, and hockey gets crap ratings, because the majority of the country could give a rats ass about the sport.  The NBA used to be one of my favorite sports, but the last ten years, I could have cared less about the league.  Like one of the posters said, there is no intrigue in the NBA.  Good for college hoops though and I feel bad for Darius Morris, he could have had a monster year this year.  Hindsight is 20/20.

Tater

November 14th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^

The players and their agents need a wake-up call.  Despite the "ticket prices are determined by supply and demand" excuse, salaries have priced their core audience out of the games.  I think David Stern is a reptile, but I think he and the owners are right on this one.  

It will be interesting seeing a bunch of millionaires who aren't qualified to do much more than work an entry-level job at Mickey D's in real life try to manage their finances with a year off.  There will be questions like, "who is going to pay the posse," and "do I get to go to the strip club if I can't make it rain" and "you mean people have to live on $8 an hour?"

The players have severely overestimated their market value.  It still pisses me off that when the players conspire to raise salaries, it's "freedom," but if the owners conspire to lower them, it's an "antitrust law violation."  It would be really, really great to see the players and their agents slapped down in any lawsuit that may occur. 

BRCE

November 14th, 2011 at 2:38 PM ^

This would have been a HUGE story in Detroit if it happened between 2004-2006. The Pistons were massiven then.

Now, it's fashionable to say you don't care because the Pistons are literally one of the most hopeless teams in sports at the moment. But I do feel bad for fans in Dallas, Chicago, Miami, etc. (OK, not Miami)

Hardware Sushi

November 14th, 2011 at 4:38 PM ^

My memory does not suck, but apparently yours exaggerates over time due to your obvious Pistons fandom.

Of course the Palace will sell out when you're making the Eastern Conference championship game every year. I think your point actually proves mine: Detroit has fair-weather basketball fans that don't care that much about Pistons, they care about winning.

Vivz

November 14th, 2011 at 2:39 PM ^

and from my perspective i blame the owners.
You can't just ask for a 10% reduction in pay with nothing offered because you were too dumb to make your franchise profitable on its own. This whole ultimatum bullshit was just that to me, bull shit. Players are greedy, but i would love to see them somehow win an antitrust lawsuit just to turn the sports world on its head.

The players are the bigtgest asset, and in no sport do people pay to watch Mark Cuban or MJ or Dan Gilbert in their owners boxes, they need to get out of the spotlight. I liken owners to refs, best if they are seen and not heard.

GunnersApe

November 14th, 2011 at 2:40 PM ^

Haven't followed the NBA close for a while, they seem to have lost it after the 80's/90's. Team concept/defense went bye-bye (Spurs/Piston excluded) and to me it was just I-teamers galore. Give me the Bad Boys/Jordan Bull's/Magic's Lakers/Knicks/Celtics and they would crush the teams now.

 

So here is a golden opportunity for NHL and CBB rating to should soar this season.

ChiCityWolverine

November 14th, 2011 at 3:54 PM ^

Your qualifier of "haven't followed the NBA close for a while" reveals your ignorance. What do the Bulls, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Lakers, and Mavs have in common last year? Top 10 in points allowed. This is an admittedly imperfect statistic, but recent Finals participants have been among the premier defensive teams in the league.

I don't pretend to know what Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls, or Bird's Celtics would do against today's teams, particularly the Heat. But it's simply erroneous to assume they would stomp over today's teams. We just don't know, dude.

/rant begins

It's amusing frankly how everyone proclaims how much better all those 80s/90s teams are than the Heat, yet they complain about how those stars how no "help" and won titles on their own. For parts of his run, Magic had Worthy (#1 pick, HOF/Top 50, 7-time AS), Kareem (#1 pick, HOF/Top 50, #1 all-time scorer, 6-time MVP, 19-time AS), Byron Scott (#3 pick, solid scorer and shooter, excellent role player), Bob McAdoo (#2 pick, HOF, former star and MVP, 5-time AS), Michael Cooper (arguably top wing defender of the 80s) and more quality players amongst his "role players". Bird had Robert Parish (#8 pick, HOF/Top 50, 9-time AS), Kevin McHale (#3 pick, HOF/Top 50, 7-time AS), Bill Walton (#1 pick, HOF/Top 50, former MVP won 6th Man Award fo C's), Danny Ainge (key role player brought defense and shooting ability, 1-time AS), Dennis Johnson (HOF, key defensive stopper, former Finals MVP and 5-time AS) and more during his best days. Forgive me for not indulging in the Pistons and Bulls, but MJ, Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, Rodman, Thomas, Dumars, Laimbeer, etc speak for themselves as well.

Hardly the rag-tag group the Heat have as role players. Frankly, even Bosh is dwarfed by many of the aforementioned players. Besides, they play better defense than either of these teams. That era of "Showtime" saw countless matchups fly way up into the 100s, so I don't see where defense went. Now, the Bad Boys and Jordan's teams DID play better D, but I believe the 90s were a more defensive era in the NBA. Stop complaining about no D when theres more good D now, and stop complaining about LeBron not "winning on his own" when none of the aforementioned players did so.

/end rant, apologizes for rant

I just want basketball... (obviously)

M-Wolverine

November 14th, 2011 at 5:18 PM ^

Just for that reason...depth. And frankly star power, because up until maybe the last couple of seasons, really, even the elite players for the last decade haven't been to the level (in those numbers) as the players then. The League is finally recovered some, but will never match that level due to one thing - expansion. Subtract four teams, and spread the wealth of those rosters and cut out the lower tier players, and you'd have better teams.

I don't think it's fair to say to a LeBron that he should be able to carry a team on his own. But it's not completely unrealistic, because for the most part, he's playing other teams in the same situation. In the old days you either needed 3 star calibre players, or needed either A. 4-9 to all be starter level players like the Pistons or B. had Michael Jordan who counted as 2 stars all by himself. Nowadays, you have two star players, you're a contender. Or less if you play a team concept like the Mavs to some extent, and the Spurs and Pistons did to a greater extent.  But go player by player, match up by match up, and those teams would get destroyed by The Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, Bulls of old.  I mean that was a time where teams like the Cavs, Hawks, and pretty much anyone from the West couldn't get a sniff because they couldn't get past those teams. Post (and inbetween Jordan), and eureka, teams of that level have a chance.  Houston, Utah, Blazer type teams would be winning titles now, and competitive (if not actually dominant) with the teams of today.

Defense is generally better today, but there's 3 reasons for it. A. The Pistons instituted it, and the Bulls followed up so they could beat them, then the Knicks took it to silly levels.  B. After that they made zone defense legal. It used to only be man to man, with the occassional double team (which made the game flow much better) and C. team could put it in the hoop then. They could shoot, drive, and post; fast breaks were common, and teams could score. The athleticism went up in the League, which helps defense, at the same time the skill set of early entry players went down, making offense a pain.  Sure there is a group of players that finally has gotten the League to a competitive level again, and not the painful embarrassment it's been from the mid-90's to maybe the last couple of years.  But it hasn't been close to what it was till just now, and that's why the perception is there.

And again, I mainly blame expansion. The star players on your 5 or 6 worst teams would be 3 or 4 guys on good teams. Starters would be bench players. It was too much, too fast. Almost all sports are better now than they ever have been, because the athletes just get that much bigger, faster, stronger. Baseball, Football, even Hockey, because even though they overexpanded they offset that a huge influx of talented foreign players that weren't available to them before; which the NBA has done, but no where to that level or extent.  The NBA has players that are bigger and stronger and faster, and able to do more things at that size, but because they get less training (which players in college football have had to stay the same amount for most of it's existence) it offsets the greater talent.  Isiah and Magic stayed 2 years.  Now some kid not close to their talent level will be one and done.  There's a cost.

I enjoyed the Pistons last title, with their team framework, and bringing back the defense to Detroit....but I don't kid myself that they wouldn't have been a first round playoff knockout for the Pistons in the late 80s-early 90s.

GunnersApe

November 15th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^

My only source would be Video Game like. Do want the original Dream Team (92) or current? I'll take 92.

Also yes I do not follow B-ball except for SC and box scores, so I really have no basis just gut feeling about the I-Teamers of today.

 

 

 

ATLWolverine

November 14th, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^

"[I haven't watched the NBA in 20 years]"

BUT!

"[I have some strong opinions about how today's game is played]"

2008 featured a dominant Celtics defense take them all the way to the title, and the way that team came together was truly special. The consumate vet Pierce, the classiest pure shoter in the game Ray Allen, and the quiet giant who never complained about his situation in Minnesota but broke down in tears when he got his first title Garnett.

This past year featured Dirk Nowitzki bomb in two finals games offensively and yet still be carried to the promised land by his teammates, who played solid defense and distributed the ball well, beating the consumate "MEMEME" team the Miami Heat.

I really think you're missing out on some amazing basketball. There has been a renaissance in the league since 2005; players like LeBron/Durant/Kobe are playing some of the sickest basketball you will ever see.

el segundo

November 14th, 2011 at 6:51 PM ^

But wishing that the NBA would go away or be permanently damaged is stupid.  There are people (like me and at least a few others) who enjoy the NBA.  You seem to be enjoying our disappointment to a remarkably obnoxious degree.  It's one thing to dislike the NBA and to ignore it.  It's another to hope that others lose the opportunity to watch a sport they enjoy.

If I started a post on here about how I wanted the NHL to go out of business, I'd probably be banned from the site.  

But expressing such sentiments about the NBA is not merely tolerated; it's celebrated by many.

WMUgoblue

November 14th, 2011 at 2:41 PM ^

If it means more people finding love in the NHL again, I'm all for it. I was excited to see what Brandon Knight could do with the Pistons this year, but whatever. MOAR HOCKEY COVERAGE PLEASE!!

mbrummer

November 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^

Doesnt mean more NHL coverage.  It means more NFL coverage until February, and then more Yanks- Sox in February and March.

I can't beleive how bad the ESPN has gotten with NFL.  You can't even get college football highlights Sunday morning!!  It's abour injury reports and what diva reciever is being a diva receiver or Hammerin' Hank's picks.  Not to mention this is before the 2 hours of NFL pregame they have which also covers the same infomation.

It's Sunday morning please give me college highlights, maybe I didn't stay up until 2 AM watching USC- Arizona, or I didn't see highlights of the night games.  

/rant

gmoney41

November 14th, 2011 at 5:58 PM ^

I'll be honest with ya, I haven't watched a full NFL game all season.  With my Colts being abysmal this year, I haven't really cared.  I agree totally with you about ESPN.  The NFL is the most overrated league in all of sports.

AC1997

November 14th, 2011 at 2:44 PM ^

When Morris decided to leave I was critical of his decision for the simple fact of the lockout weighing on the same side of the ledger as "might not be a first round pick".  I was crushed on this blog for that opinion, assuming I was selfishly hoping he'd stay to help the team.  I can't really argue that - I wanted him on the team to see how far they could go.  But I also questioned the business decision of his move considering the lockout and wished him well no matter what he did.

Getting drafted by the Lakers was the best case scenario if he fell to the second round, but now he's left without a league to play in.  And signing with a European team is not an option if he ever wants to get into camp with the Lakers.  I hope he and his family took steps to prepare for this situation because he's a great kid and a good player.  I wish him the best....but I also wish he were suiting up tonight and leading the team to a possible conference championship. 

In the end I think Simmons' proposal is best - sign a 2-year labor deal with few changes so it buys you time to blow up the whole system.  And when they do I think they should try to adopt either an MLB or NHL style draft program where college kids didn't have to forfeit their eligibility to go through the draft. 

m83econ

November 14th, 2011 at 2:46 PM ^

It's constantly said that the NBA is a player's league, no coach, no GM no owner can control the players (see Mimai Heat).  Therefore, blame the players.

ATLWolverine

November 14th, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^

it's a GM's league.

If you pay $110 million to Gilbert Arenas and then scream that you are unprofitable, I have news for you... it's not the collective bargaining agreement that is to blame.

Sam Presenti over in OKC has shown that it is very possible to field an excellent team with good chemistry and remain comfortably below the luxury tax threshold. No problems with players there.

TRIPP3

November 14th, 2011 at 2:54 PM ^

My wife and I work all the pistons games. so if they dont play we are out about $25,000. I will be able to pick up some more michigan and state b-ball games. But it will not make up for all those games lost. Yes the NBA sucks and needs to be fixed. but it will be at the expence of the little people that are just trying to pay their bills. The people that broadcast the games(like me, camera guy) ushers, food servers, parking. Everyone that works in that area around the arena will be affected. 

ChiCityWolverine

November 14th, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^

As someone who just didn't grow up on hockey living in Florida, this is depressing. I'm looking forward to UM hoops and all, but college basketball alone doesn't get me through January and February. Similarly, the wait for football this year will begin at the end of March Madness without the excessively-long NBA Playoffs to entertain me.

I know plenty of hockey lovers expect this to benefit the NHL, but I don't know how much it will. Sure, the demographic usually interested in hockey may enjoy a bit more coverage, but trust me when I say few non-hockey people will be converted. I don't mean to diss the sport, because I respect the hell out of hockey players. I just doubt basketball people will suddenly pick up hockey.

Lastly, I am a Heat fan, so a lockout comes at a poor time as I believe Dwyane Wade only has 2 or 3 years left as a top 3 superstar. Haters can say what they want about Lebron, but the Heat were the absolute favorite this year, and I'm disappointed to miss the excitement of seeing that team on the court.

bosox1519

November 14th, 2011 at 3:58 PM ^

I agree with you completely. I'm not sure where some hockey fans get the idea that the NHL will suddenly become more popular. Pro Basketball fans and NHL fans are two very different types of people. The people that want to watch the NBA aren't going to turn to hockey.

AMazinBlue

November 14th, 2011 at 3:03 PM ^

I know that sounds bad, but I think both sides need to be brought down a couple of notches.  These overpaid multimillionaires (both sides) whine and complain about their situations yet they blow hundreds of thousands on stupid shit.  I don't ever want to hear another millionaire talk about feeding his family.  There's a reason that the majority of these athletes are broke shortly after getting out of the league.

None of these rich guys understand living paycheck to paycheck.  Heck, most pro athletes struggle with retirement because they can't deal with the reality of actually having to pay for every day things and not getting everything for free.

BONUS: Not having to hear about LeBron for six months is awesome.