OT: Penalties for Cheating?

Submitted by Ball Hawk on January 16th, 2013 at 1:55 PM
There's not a lot of good things going on in college football these days. It seems that people that cheat get ahead in life more often than not. Coaches that leave a college program a wreck with sanctions should be banned from being a coach for a period of time. This cheat to better my chances at climbing the ladder has to stop. College football is taking a beating from these coaches. Do you ever see a rule ever being made to punish the coach and the University or is this gonna continue to be the normal business method? What do you think? Edit- sorry I didnt add that coaches should be banned from coaching in the NFL for a period of time.

Comments

1464

January 16th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

Furthermore,

If anyone does something really bad like murder or rape another person, I personally think that we should have a series of large and well secured facilities in which we can throw these offenders.  We could maybe put barbed wire around the outside and keep them in little cages for most of the day.  I think something like this may deter a lot of violent crime in the future.

Sincerely,

OP

Doctor Wolverine

January 16th, 2013 at 2:01 PM ^

I would say Tressel got punished for cheating at OSU. Didn't he get some type of ban or restriction as far as coaching in college? I think the biggest problem is that the NFL continues welcoming these coaches and players who violated the rules. It is very contrary to other professions, where if cheating is on your official record coming out of school, it actually impacts your ability to get a job.

AJ1913

January 16th, 2013 at 2:02 PM ^

If yes, I agree with you. These coaches know exactly what they are doing and know that it is wrong. Once they get a small idea that sanctions may be upcomming, they may start looking to bolt. ( i.e. Pete Carroll) There should without a doubt be a penalty, as none of these coaches should be given a higher profile job, for cheating their way to the top.

jmblue

January 16th, 2013 at 2:15 PM ^

Well, I don't think you can expect the NFL to want to punish him for amateurism violations that have nothing to do with pro football.  Being banned from coaching in college is not a slap on the wrist.  Besides, Carroll isn't a typical case.  He happens to be a good enough coach to work (and succeed) in the NFL.  A lot of other guys won't get that opportunity. 

ESNY

January 16th, 2013 at 2:59 PM ^

True. The only real way to punish the coach and make it real is to have some sort of clawback mechanism in their contracts. Of course in the world we live in, not only do guilty coaches not get fired but they also get to retire with full pension a benefits and are celebrated like war heros, so th likelyhood of that is nil

snarling wolverine

January 16th, 2013 at 4:51 PM ^

I don't see why this is a problem.  Pete Carroll has proven himself bad at running a clean NCAA program, so yes, he shouldn't get another college job.  He is, however, good at coaching football, so I see no problem with him getting a job that focuses on football and not on obeying the NCAA's rules.

John Calipari jumping from NCAA job to NCAA job is much worse IMO.

 

Dawggoblue

January 16th, 2013 at 2:08 PM ^

The NFL is a multi billion dollar business.  It does not care if you cheated at your last job.  There are lots of things that SHOULD happen in life.  This is one that is never going to happen.

jmblue

January 16th, 2013 at 2:35 PM ^

I don't follow.  How would more severe punishment from the NCAA make the college game "healthier"?  Are you suggesting that more people would take an interest in college football if there were a lot more teams on probation, banned from the postseason?  I wouldn't think so.  If anything, it's probably in the best interests of football for NCAA rules to be ignored so more teams/players can participate

The point people need to remember is that amateur sports are their own little world, with arbitrary rules that don't apply to the larger society.  Most NCAA violations are not morally bad things.  A booster giving a poor kid some pocket money is not a crime against society.  It's a violation in the specific NCAA context, but it's not something that a professional organization like the NFL should be alarmed about.

 

justingoblue

January 16th, 2013 at 2:15 PM ^

or even (legally) could be any way to stop coaches who broke NCAA rules from getting hired for professional jobs. First of all, an NFL franchise is around to make money; I have no idea why an owner would want to restrict his hiring pool based on rules that have no application in a professional league. Second, by this logic, why should Reggie Bush or Terrelle Pryor be allowed to collect an NFL paycheck? They knowingly broke rules, lied, ect. and nobody seems to have a problem with them running the ball (or warming the bench, in TP2's case) and taking a roster spot from someone who didn't break those rules.

This might not be a great analogy, but what about a prominent lawyer or surgeon who takes a faculty job somewhere and is fired for plagiarizing? Should they be prevented from going back into the profit sector and drawing up merger documents or cutting into someone's knee? Since writing papers won't be a integral part of what their employer is looking for, I'd argue that it doesn't matter what they did while publishing academic papers when looking to hire this hypothetical doctor or lawyer, provided they were still great at practicing law or medicine.

Fake Jim Harbaugh

January 16th, 2013 at 2:21 PM ^

Also, SEC on athletics

The obvious takeaway: the SEC is insane. SEC schools spend more than 12 times as much on each athlete as they do on their regular, non-revenue-generating students

Deadspin

Do you remember when Kraft had to stop calling it Cheese & Macaroni because there was more macaroni than cheese? Apparently Student Athletes are actually Athlete Students. Shout out to Cardale Jones.

ijohnb

January 16th, 2013 at 2:19 PM ^

been some kind of findings or even specific allegations that Oregon has committed wrongdoing?  I know that Kelly leaving after first declining is unusual but he probably just had cold feet. 

justingoblue

January 16th, 2013 at 2:23 PM ^

The NCAA has gone through most of the process to hand down penalties, and Kelly would have had to testify in front of the Comittee on Infractions had he stayed. Here's just a little article, but if you search any combination of "Oregon", "Willie Lyles", "NCAA violations", ect. you should be able to see most of what's happened.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8764076/oregon-ducks-nca…

CRex

January 16th, 2013 at 2:25 PM ^

Oregon tried to plea bargain (self sanction) and the NCAA rejected their offer.  That basically shows something is headed Oregons way and Oregon knows they're guilty on at least a few counts if they're trying to cut a deal.  

Ball Hawk

January 16th, 2013 at 2:49 PM ^

I understand the whole reasoning because of money but if a coach does something illegal like pay their players then there should be a rule for banning coaches from coaching in the NFL. Im not talking a lifetime ban but a time period to where the coach gets to lay in his own shit. Lebron and Kobe did just fine and are better than most of the NBA players. Clowney is talent ready but is restricted.

Ball Hawk

January 16th, 2013 at 3:10 PM ^

These issues are becoming more prevalent in some successful college coaches because they cheated and the ones that pay the price are fans and good coaches. The cheaters leave without a mark on them and leave a program a wreck with sanctions. In fact,the cheaters are glorified for their methods and get a raise and a better job.

Mr Miggle

January 16th, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

I have a tip to help your reasoning process. Don't say things like "There should be a rule"  and "Do you ever see a rule that will punish the coach and the university?" without considering who would make such rules. I get the idea that you haven't put much thought into that.

Btw, I negged you for your first two sentences. The first is patently ridiculous and the second is the kind of gratuitous whining that always annoys me..

StephenRKass

January 16th, 2013 at 4:06 PM ^

While there is some merit to your assertion (cheating is bad for the game,) there are several observations I would make:

  • First, cheating has gone on forever . . . you just weren't as aware of it as you are now. If you think that there wasn't significant cheating involved 20 and 50 and 100 years ago, you're a bit naive.
  • Second, the incentive to cheat is huge. With the incentives to cheat, in terms of both financial reward and other, you will not see an end to cheating. You can certainly increase the penalties, but there will still be the motivation for some to cheat. Note also that the penalty isn't exactly for cheating, but for getting CAUGHT cheating.
  • Lastly, motivation NOT to cheat can't only be external (i.e., penalties for cheating,) motivation not to cheat is ideally also internal (i.e., you don't cheat regardless of whether or not you get caught.)

In some ways, this goes to the issue of who you are when no one is looking. If coaches and teams are only motivated by the fear of penalty and punishment, the real problem is still there. Ultimately, you want coaches and players who will basically do the right thing no matter whether anyone knows or not.