OT- Ohio St Band Director Fired for "sexualized" Culture

Submitted by michchi85 on July 24th, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Link.  Some pretty alarming issues here, especially midnight practices in underwear and having one girl to imitiate a sexual act on the laps of several band mates, including her own brother.  

Comments

alum96

July 24th, 2014 at 4:03 PM ^

This seems like stuff guys would do at a frat hazing.   But if its guys who are 20 doing this to guys who are 18 it is one thing.  When it is a person in authority doing it it crosses a line.  When it is between opposite sexes it crosses the line.  When it is btw people of the same family it just gets sick.  Etc.

So I think maybe you are talking of the actions which some people "outside the fringe" get as hazing but you are not getting the context.  Imagine if your prof did this in class.   That's the equivalent of a band director doing it.

LSAClassOf2000

July 24th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^

If your son / daughter comes to you and says that, as an incoming member of the bad, you have been given a nickname which is likely sexually suggestive, perhaps even offensive (REF: the report linked in the article) and that, at the discretion of the upperclassmen, you are asked to perform "tricks" which relate to this nickname (in one case, a girl was asked to act as if she was having an orgasm thanks to a vibrator, per the report), you wouldn't raise an eyebrow and see that something was done about this right then and there?

It doesn't matter if it that parent is the first to formally complain (I somehow doubt it for some reason), I can't fathom just telling one's kid something which amounts to, "Well, you know how it is in Marching Band..." That it happened at all is unacceptable really, but that the culture was encouraged by someone supposedly in charge is appalling to me. Sorry, the argument from tradition is a fallacious argument.

oriental andrew

July 24th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^

Who knows how many parents complained in the past, or how many kids quit, and nobody ever heard about it.  Maybe Waters is a scapegoat with the new president trying to make his mark, but at the end of the day, it was the right thing to do.  

Of course, I'm also of a firm belief that the kids involved should also be punished for violating the student code of conduct.

https://studentlife.osu.edu/csc/

Prohibited conduct includes:

  • Endangering Health or Safety
  • Sexual Misconduct
  • Alcohol 
  • Hazing

and more, probably

 

RationalBuckeye

July 24th, 2014 at 2:49 PM ^

As a student my first reaction was just that I don't care about the band, but upon further reflection it's easy to see how this issue could've been swept away and dealt with quietly to protect the name of the university. I have a lot of respect for President Drake in bringing this to light, and terminating those involved, something President Gee wouldn't have done under the same circumstances.

oriental andrew

July 24th, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^

There are some real die-hards commenting on the article that this is completely normal and acceptable behavior, and that anyone who does not like it should just say no or quit the band.  That many of the commenters supporting this behavior are alums of "TBDBITL" (abbreviation for "the best damn band in the land") is also quite telling.  

The fact that the fired band director is also an osu marching band alum is telling.  Perhaps he, too, was jaded or accepting of the fact that this sort of behavior goes on.  Either way, 2 years should have been PLENTY of time to change the culture, if he really wanted to.  

JamieH

July 24th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^

what you are referring to is called a "lack of instituational control".

Sounds like the OSU band has been this way for a long long time, and the behavior was pretty much accepted and/or approved by the staff of the band.

gmoney41

July 24th, 2014 at 3:11 PM ^

The comment section on the Columbus Dispatch is hilarious.  People actually think this behavior is perfectly fine.  Oh OSU, what a great school!!!

Mr. Yost

July 24th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^

Practiced in the spring at safety...wonder if he's really moved.

Mattison likes big CBs at Nickel...which is why Dymonte was there and why Avery moved even though it was his best position.

Peppers is a Mattison dream at Nickel.

LordGrantham

July 24th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^

After looking at Exhibit B, I do have to admit that the OSU band has a real knack for catchy song titles.  Who could argue with such classics as:

"The Hitler Song"

"All my semen"

"Balls to your partner"

"Bring back my boner"

"Carwile sucks raw dick"

"He's a sweet gay fag"

or my personal favorite

"Puff the magic tampon"

nowayman

July 24th, 2014 at 4:07 PM ^

Other schools but we definitely have a few professors that are ... eccentric. 

/edit: last time I try posting on this device.  I got a double post and my reply, which was supposed be to the guy talking about Michigan profs, is buried way down here.

Also, context clarification I'm not implying I witnessed stuff similar to the article at Michigan.

Tater

July 24th, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^

I think that kind of debauchery is great if it is all consenting adults.  It's a lot like some "krewes" in NOLA do at their parties.  

However, when people are forced to do this without their consent, it is not only sexual harassment, but a few of these things would be considered sexual assault in many states.  It's clear that the students had two choices: participate or don't be in the band.  It was Waters' responsibility to protect his students and he failed miserably.

I may never say this again, but congratulations to the OSU administration for doing the right thing.

Coldwater

July 24th, 2014 at 5:08 PM ^

Those fuckin band nerds are a bunch of horn dogs....they never got any in high school so they take out all their pent up frustration in college. Lol

Maybe band camp really IS all about sex

DrewGOBLUE

July 24th, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^

 photo image_zpsa3f12935.jpg

This is just a sample of the dozens of songs associated with Big Ten schools that they made mock versions of. It's amazing how malicious and derogatory they are. A group of Michigan students would never do anything as bad as this.

mvp

July 25th, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^

It goes back a long time, but when I was in the MMB, we had pretty awful versions of all the Big Ten fight songs.  And Notre Dame.

To me the distinction is in choice.  When you make this sort of thing obligatory to all members of the band, then you have a problem.  Outside of the formal organization, 18-22 year olds are going to do raunchy childish stuff.  It is part of being 18-22.

Bando Calrissian

July 24th, 2014 at 7:17 PM ^

I think what's most unbelievable to me was the fact that Waters claimed he really didn't know drinking was a problem in his band.

During that stretch in the 2000s where it seemed OSU was going to Arizona for one bowl or another for what seemed like an eternity, the OSUMB routinely rented out a specific hotel that members came to give some resort-like name (which escapes me now), which they particularly adored purely for the fact it had a liquor store open directly across the street. Those kids went hard the entire time. Every time they found out they'd be going back to Arizona, even if it was a shitty bowl game, they knew to look forward to it.

Waters claiming ignorance is classic. There's just no way.

EDIT: This is not to say I'm anti-drinking, but when it exists in excess and contributes to an environment where harrassment and hazing occur on a regular basis, you have a problem on your hands.

AFWolverine

July 24th, 2014 at 7:08 PM ^

There's a fine line between assault and harassment and if you ask me, a few of these definitely crossed the line. If I were to pull crap like this in the Air Force I'd be on the way to court and probably jail time for sexual assault. I hope OSU wakes up to the culture they're promoting on a daily basis down there. It truly disgusts me.