OT: Moyes out at ManU (This is soccer related, click accordingly).

Submitted by Blue in Yarmouth on April 22nd, 2014 at 9:24 AM

In a move not totally unexpected to those who follow the EPL David Moyes has finally been removed from his position as manager at Manchester United.  The ageless Ryan Giggs takes on an interim role until the successor is found. 

 

As a fan of English football in general and ManU specifically I couldn't have imagined the impending collapse at the beginning of the season. A team that won the league handily last season has dropped to seventh in the league this year. Honestly, I haven't seen a united team play this uninspired in my time watching the sport (30 odd years). 

This has reinforced to me the impact a coach/manager can have on a team. This was virtually the same team that won the league last year and by changing coaches, the wheels fell off. Every significant piece of last years team was still there and still they faltered.

To bring this around to our favorite american football team, perhaps with simply the addition of a coach this year we can see as big a step forward for our offense as the step backward ManU took this season. 

Anyway, for me being a fan of both UM and ManU I'm full of optimism for the furture. Full disclosure though, I'm pretty much always an optimist when encountering change. Go Blue and Go Red Devils!

Comments

alum96

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^

"finally removed"?  Lol is this Joe Dumars speaking?  He didn't even get a year....

I think the fanbase would have revolted if he had not been removed so understandable.  You don't want to be the guy who replaces a legend.  You want to be the guy who follows the guy who replaces a legend.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:42 AM ^

Sometimes things take more than one season to figure out, but not this. When a team is rebuilding you need a good few seasons to see what a coach can do and hopefully he is given that chance. If you follow soccer at all you know ManU was not rebuilding. The team Moyes inherited ran away with the league last year and brought every significant piece of that championship team back. You don't need more than one year to find out a guy is out of his depth when he is THIS FAR out of his depth. 

 

JonSobel

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^

though I think he at least partly contributed, perhaps without knowing it, to the current downfall of the club.  Winning with aging talent and not continuing to develop a solid base of youth at the same pace as the other top clubs in Europe was going to cost the club eventually.  I didn't think Moyes was the right choice at the time he got the job, but then again, he, and likely the next manager, are the sacrificial lambs to the much needed rebuilding process.

alum96

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^

Not disagreeing with your theme - I just was smirking a bit at the term "finally" as if he was Matt Millen or Wayne Fontes.  (if you are not a Lions fan it won't make sense). Guy has been with the team under a year, which is about the time frame the Pistons fire a coach. ;)

Awkward_Amalgamation

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^

Perhaps you're right about Moyes being out of his depth. I'm still disappointed, though, in what i would deem was an early firing.

I won't advocate that Moyes was the right man for the job but i greatly dislike the precedence set (for/by ManU) in firing a coach after less than a year on the job. I really don't want to turn into Chelsea with their coaching carousel theatrics. I've been frustrated countless times this season with Moyes' tactics, formations and (mis)use of players. But, to me, that can only be one side to the coin. The other side is who will replace him. I don't want to see a firing just to get rid of someone and to mollify the growing frustrations of the fans. I hope this means they have a good option waiting in the wings to replace Moyes.

In short, the eventual hiring better justify the early firing.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 23rd, 2014 at 8:30 AM ^

and in almost every other situation I would say he needs more time, but in this case it was a bad fit from the get go. Also, I think the fact that SAF was one of the longest serving coaches in EPL history will offset the fact that they fired a guy after one miserable season. 

I think the next guy in is going to get a boat load of money to spend in the transfer window that will alllow him to be successful immediately and give him the time he needs to rebuild the youth movement at the club. Anyway, time will tell but I am over the moon that Moyes is gone. 

 

Blue in Yarmouth

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:40 AM ^

It pains me to say that yes, Real Madrid is a much better team than ManU currently. ManU has the tools to play with them and beat them on any given day if they have a coach who knows how to utilize the players he has. With Giggs now in charge I would guess that they will be far more competitive in that game than they would have been had Moyes stayed.

Back to your question though...With the addition of Bale to an already stacked lineup, I'm surprised when anyone beats Real M, though it still happens on a far more frequent basis than one would expect.

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:54 AM ^

United have the players to beat Real on a given day like Northwestern has the players to beat OSU on a given day. 

That squad needs some serious rebuilding.  As a Liverpool fan, I'm glad they have a £300k/week weight around their necks as they attempt to do so.  But I'm actually looking forward to a real rivalry now that Liverpool have found their magic and United have jettisoned Fergie's narcissistic folly.

Zoltanrules

April 22nd, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^

The two teams play tomorrow in the Champions League final at 2:45. Watch it if you want to know about top level soccer. Man Utd are in 7th place in the English Premier League and are a shell of the team they were in recent years - uninspired and often look unorganized.

I thnk Man Utd are going to move players and bring new ones in by August, so we could see some players battling for positions at the Big House.

alum96

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^

@Hart

Yes RM is better right now but it doesn't have that much impact on what you will see next August for multiple reasons.  One - there is a huge transfer window (i.e. trade market of sorts, free agents, etc) coming up and I expect ManU to be very active.  Second - in these type of games you don't always see the "A" player - they usually are  a mix of "A" and "B" so you have no idea on any given day who will show up.   This is especially true because both those teams are loaded with players who will be just coming off a very draining World Cup (assuming their country teams advance far into the WC) so some guys will be rested heavily during an exhibition type tournament like this.

So what you will see in August is different rosters, with some "A" player rested versus if you throw the 2 teams out there on a pitch tomorrow.

santosbfree

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^

If you really followed the EPL, you would know that Moyes was out of his league at Man U. Big clubs like that require managers that can out-ego their players. The whole team rebelled against Moyes' small club micromanagement. Not to mention that Sir Alex let the whole team get old without an eye to the future. Would have been nice to see Ferguson stand up for Moyes, but it is what it is.

A note for folks trying to get into EPL... Don't pick a team like Man U to follow. Their fans are the same front running DBs that love the Yankees and the Lakers. If you're from Detroit, find a scrappy side from a blue collar town like Everton or Southampton. If you're not, just try not to latch on to the top six that you have no connection to. It's annoying.

alum96

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^

I think you can root for Arsenal as a neutral as well.... I know they are "top 6" but they are run more like Green Bay Packers/New England Patriots/Pittsburgh Steelers to me.  Long time coach, they are known for developing players and not just snatching talent away when another team develops it, they let go some of their top talent due to price, and still has a chance to compete at the top....they do spend money but they are not egregious like some other clubs.  

So Arsenal is a happy medium for me - when you root for one of those team in the bottom 10 every year it is just heartbreak to know they have zero chance at winning championships and I already get my fix of that with the Lions (and recently UM football).   That said I tend to root more for individual players in EPL that I like a lot like Gerrard.

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^

Part of me agrees with you, as I harbor no animosity for Arsenal, and they usually play some attractive, attacking soccer. 

But holy shit, I don't know if you want to advise someone to become attached to that team -- every single year, they look teriffic just long enough for their fans to finally let their guard down and think that this might be the year, only to collapse in a nightmarishly familiar way each and every time.  (And still end up in fourth, of course ... a perfect spot from which to promise bigger and better things the following year.)

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^

@santos

You can follow Everton if you can see yourself as a transatlantic Sparty -- their nickname courtesy of crosstown giants Liverpool is 'our wee neighbors' (or, more succinctly, the Bitters). 

In fairness to Everton, though, they generally are impressively respectful when it comes to commemorating the Hillsborough tragedy, in which 96 Liverpool fans died.  And they are playing some really exciting stuff under their new manager (Roberto Martinez), who, maybe not entirely coincidentally, was one of two finalists for the Liverpool job.  In other words, Martinez is definitely no Dantonio and their style of play is a far cry from 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness.  Jesus -- come to think of it, they really resembled MSU under the Moyes, the master of dour, ugly, someone-peed-in-my-cheerios-and-I'm-a-grumpy-fucker dross.

*Note that, while I follow Liverpool, I decided to do so for personal reasons -- long story -- in 2006, without even knowing about their Champions League victory in 2005 at the time.  For those who follow closely, this is telling: the first Liverpool shirt I bought was Momo Sissokho's ... not that I'd go that route again, of course.

Number 7

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:09 AM ^

I was a casual supporter of Liverpool back in the day when they had a young Michael Owen.  I figured that between the Beatles, "You'll Never Walk Alone", and my in-laws' Merseyside heritage they were the obvious EPL choice for me.

Then came Luis Suarez.

I decided to give up "You'll Never Walk Alone,"  arguably keep the other two (after learning that my in-laws' ancestors didn't really care much for soccer anyway -- so I get to make it up), add a USMNT stalwart in Tim Howard, and go with Everton.  

Did I just switch from UM to MSU or vice versa?  Maybe, but I contend that Aversion to Suarez is a just enough cause to make such an extreme and otherwise gravely violating fandom move.

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^

Like I say, Everton these days are a pretty likeable club from a neutral perspective. 

As for Suarez, I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think he's villified more than he deserves.  The 'racist abuse' incident with Patrice Evra was somewhat manufactured and not even close to as sinister as shorthand references to the incident make it appear.* 

He plays like a recently uncaged animal on the pitch at times, though, and will not hesitate to lie, cheat and steal in athletic terms in order to score and win.  As a Liverpool fan, I get frustrated most of all with the diving, especially because for every dive there's a play where he gets the shit kicked out of him, stays up, and doesn't get the whistle.  He contributes to a unvirtuous cycle wherein referees don't give him the benefit of the doubt sometimes because of his diving, which leads him to get frustrated with the lack of calls, which leads him to dive and exaggerate contact to get those calls. 

I sometimes put the gloss on it that he's from the very poor streets of Montevideo and has learned to play football with the passion of someone whose had to kick and scrap for everything's he's ever received.  And, by all accounts, he's a very quiet, low-key figure off the pitch who's devoted to his family.  He's also arguably the best player in the league right now (other than Toure, I don't know who's even in the conversation.)

*Evra's claim(s), for example, that Suarez yelled out 'negro' five times in a row- wait, no, ten times in a row in the midst of a group of players while a corner kick was being taken are dubious and devoid of any substantiating evidence. 

Sambojangles

April 22nd, 2014 at 5:01 PM ^

"I sometimes put the gloss on it that he's from the very poor streets of Montevideo and has learned to play football with the passion of someone whose had to kick and scrap for everything's he's ever received.  And, by all accounts, he's a very quiet, low-key figure off the pitch who's devoted to his family.  He's also arguably the best player in the league right now"

Swap Montevideo for some town in Venezuela, and football for baseball, and you basically just described Miguel Cabrera. I don't know why, but your paragraph just brought Miggy to mind, and the similarities between them. I had never thought about it before, but they're close. Both Latin American players playing across the world, receiving riches they never could have dreamed. Suarez has had his problems on the field, and Cabrera off (the domestic violence incident, drunk driving in FL, @DrunkMiggy), but we can all agree they are the top of their sports right now.

Magnum P.I.

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^

I latched on to Portsmouth a few years back when I was first just dabbling in the EPL. Then they got relegated. And then they got relegated to League One. And then they got relegated to League Two.

Should've latched on to ManU or Chelsea :(

snowcrash

April 22nd, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^

If you're looking for an EPL team to follow I recommend Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, or Everton. They have enough money (or in Everton's case, almost enough) to compete for Champions League spots, but not so much money that you feel like you're rooting for the Yankees.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 23rd, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^

I didn't latch ont oto manchester united because I go for frontrunners. My favorite sports teams have been my favorite sports teams for my entire 40 years of following sports. They are as follows: Montreal Canadiens, Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Raptors (since they came into existance, prior to that it was the Bulls but overall I'm not a huge NBA fan), Manchester Untied (because that is where my family is from and we have been Red Devil fans for generations), obviously UM etc. 

I think you can see from that list that I am not a front-runner as you suggest all man united fans are. Also, you say I don't know the EPL because I didn't realise that Moyes was out of his league when in countless posts I said he was out of his league from the get go....I'm havinbg trouble taking anything you say seriously. Maybe you should ask qualifying questions before you go off about people you obviously know nothing about.

bacon1431

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:13 AM ^

I think Moyes will end up at Newcastle. Pardew isn't going to last long there. Newcastle is closer to Everton and size and Moyes might actually get more funds at Newcastle than he did at Everton. Though he'd also be walking into another job that wants to win now (though winning at Newcastle is at a much different level than winning at ManU obviously).

Rumor is that van Gaal is on the radar for United, which will really stick in Tottenham's craw as they have been the long rumored destination this summer for the Netherlands manager.

bacon1431

April 22nd, 2014 at 8:40 PM ^

Newcastle have more to offer in terms of funding and realistic expectations. I wouldn't be surprised to see him at Villa, but if it came down to a choice b/w the two, I'd imagine he'd go with the coastal team over the one from the West Midlands.

Though I must say, despite being Black Country rivals with Wolves, I've got great respect for Villa. They have not yet been relegated from the Prem despite having a similar budget to the rest of the teams in the bottom half. Though I could be speaking too soon as they're not clear form danger. Hope West Brom pips them for a relegation spot.

bacon1431

April 23rd, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^

Some good times. And even though it sucked being in League One this year in terms of coverage, it was good to read about some new teams. Crewe Alexandra, Shrewsbury, Walsall, and Port Vale are all within 50 miles of Wolverhampton. Midlands have some good football, but it's a forgotten area sandwiched b/w London and Manchester.

MGolem

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^

Moyes replaces Sherwood at Tottenham? He did a lot with Everton before this egg laying at ManU. For those who don't follow English soccer Manchester City, Liverpool, and Everton are probably the most fun to watch and if you are looking for an American to root for Everton's goalie is American stalwart Tim Howard. I am a Tottenham fan myself which is hard to say considering how their defensive middle has looked this year.

gmoney41

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:49 AM ^

City fan here, and yeah we are fun to watch, but our early season screw ups might have cost us the title.  I never thought I would be pulling for Chelsea, but I will be pulling for them Sunday against liverpool.  Moyes seemed in over his head, but I don't think he is an awful manager.  United has some glaring weaknesses, but they still have great talent in Van Persie, Rooney and Mata.  They also have some nice young players like Januzaj.  United will be back next year, and they will be very good.  Just a tough season for them.

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:53 AM ^

You are honest to god the first neutral I've ever heard say 'I will be pulling for Chelsea.' 

This is akin to, 'I will be pulling for the Riley Knicks' ...  if the Knicks were owned by a Russian oligarch and Pat Riley nicknamed himself The Special One and gouged the eyes of opposing coaches.

 

gmoney41

April 22nd, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^

Yeah, the only reason I am pulling for Chelsea is that slim hope that Liverpool lose 1 of their last 3 and City wins out.  City hasn't exactly been tearing it up, so winning out is not a given, but nothing is out of the realm of possibility. 

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:05 AM ^

Listing Rooney as an asset is completely mistaken, if you ask me.  Rooney has the distinct look of 2011 Fernando Torres about him ... only he's getting paid 300k/week and no club is going to come even close to offering a big transfer fee to take him off United's fans. 

Long term, United fans are absolutely going to rue the day they didn't take a huge load of cash for Rooney in the last transfer window when they had a chance. 

 

STW P. Brabbs

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^

I'd certainly add Southampton to the list -- and they've got even more hipster cred than Everton -- but I'm pretty sure that their two best players, Shaw and Lallana, are guaranteed to be moving to bigger clubs next year.  Which is both a shame and utterly systemic in European soccer.

bacon1431

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^

Yep. It sucks in the sense that the big clubs are the only ones that can have club legends anymore. Rarely will you see a guy talented enough to play for the big boys refuse to do so and stay with a smaller club. The only chance at a club legend is if they are just good enough to stick around long enough but not good enough to move onto bigger clubs. So the club legends will end up being slightly above average players instead of great ones.

PurpleStuff

April 22nd, 2014 at 10:59 AM ^

Nice to see the memory on the United fanbase.  If Moyes "had to go", Alex Ferguson would have been fired time and time again before he got it figured out.  He finished 11th in year 3.  He finished 6th in year 5. 

Heard for years how they were a class club that didn't just hop on the coaching carousel at any small sign of struggle.  Guess they were wrong.  Lucky for the guy who gets all that cash to revitalize a very old club this summer.

BlueinLansing

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^

but it was obvious a few key players just plain disliked playing for Moyes. 

 

I personally don't think Man Utd will bounce back as easily as others assume.  The loss of champions league money and more importantly having that to dangle in front of potential targets is pretty huge.

jonock14

April 22nd, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^

Granted, things are different these days with the amount of money that gets poured into sports, but United fans have been spoiled with SAF's ability to make championship teams out of old guys the past few years.  To not give Moyes the opportunity to earn their respect, rebuild the youth team a bit, and bring in his guys is a shame. 

 

That being said, as an Everton fan, I'm not heartbroken with how things worked out for us.  Martinez has been just fantastic, and has brought with him a style that's really fun to watch.  Moyes did really well for a number of years with limited resources and I feel some loyalty to him for that, but the success RM has had this year makes me wonder what we were missing.  Plus, he tried to take Leighton Baines with him to United, and got denied, so screw him :)

alum96

April 22nd, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^

I know Martinez is not a big name but any chance ManU takes a swipe at him ?

Diego Simeone is going to be a very hot commodity but his style of play doesnt really fit with ManU's ideals ....nor their current set of fullbacks lol.