OT: More Big XII Expansion Info

Submitted by raleighwood on May 22nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM

Sports talk radio in ACC country is referencing a report in Orange Bloods that the Big XII has had informal discussions with Florida State, Miami, Clemson and VA Tech.


It's way too early to take it seriously but it's a little more "confirmed" than reports we saw over the weekend.


MI Expat NY

May 22nd, 2012 at 5:50 PM ^

Maybe "worthy" wasn't the right word.  What I mean is, if a conference was considering adding those schools today, would they think that the school brings enough to the table to pay for themselves and add value to the conference?  For the schools I listed, I either think conferences wouldn't add them, or it would be close.  And I wasn't leaving out schools based solely on winning percentage, it was more about Alumni Base, media footprint, etc.  Private schools (that don't have history like USC/ND or ridiculous endowments like Stanford), and second schools in smallish states don't bring a lot to the table in pure terms of expansion desireability.  That's just the way it is.  Those are the schools that if their conference fell apart don't bring anything of interest to one of the other conferences and would be left out, which is why you don't come to 64 total schools if "super-conferences" form.

Why does the majority of NCAA institutions have to go along?  The NCAA has very little to do with FBS football when it comes to conference affiliation and national championship structure.  If the four conferences divised a system to automatically close out the rest of FBS from a national championship system or from TV, then maybe there would be a problem, but otherwise its simply schools deciding for themselves who to associate with.  

And really, if getting the rest of the NCAA to go along actually was an issue, there's always the nuclear option (or threat of said optioin) whereby the super-conferences break off from the NCAA and form their own organization.  


May 22nd, 2012 at 4:32 PM ^

I don't think it'd be too hard to find sixteen more teams to add to the existing Big Ten, Big XII, Pac 12 and SEC in order to make four super conferences.

Indpendents BYU and Notre Dame are the first two on the list.  To keep it simple, you can add in the fourteen teams that are going to be in the ACC and you have your 64 right there.  

The question now becomes one of distributing them into the four larger conferences.  Realistically, we both know that's not going to happen overnight, if at all, since the conferences operate as quasi-independent entities anyway.

There's also no reason to say the super conferences won't comprise 20 teams divided into two 10-team super divisions.  The teams in those divisions play a round robin among their members plus three more games beyond that.  The winner of the division goes to the super-conference championship game with the winner advancing to a four-team playoff.

The pre-Penn State/Nebraska Big Ten Conference would have been a Super Division.  The same goes for the present Big XII or the Pac 12 prior to the recent additions of Utah and Colorado.  Those entities operated fine as conferences, so there's no problem with them doing the same as Super Divisions.

College Football's Division 1-A is soon going to have 125 members.  Eliminate 45 of them and you'd have your 80-team entity for football, basketball and most every other sport  within college athletics.

The WAC is now down to two football schools (Idaho and New Mexico State), so they could be removed from 1-A.  The Sun Belt will soon have eleven members, so you could remove them as well.  

That leaves Conference USA, the Mountain West, the Big East and the MAC to provide the remainining programs to eliminate in order to get down to 80 teams.  



MI Expat NY

May 22nd, 2012 at 4:43 PM ^

You're not approaching it from the conferences' perspective.  Can you or I sit down with a full list of FBS schools and put together a structure that splits the schools into appropriate conferences in a new first division of college football?  Absolutely.  Will anyone allow that to happen?  No chance in hell.  

Schools exist to fill out 4-16 team super conferences.  But there aren't 16 independent schools whereby the SEC would be happy with two of them, the Big 12 with six of them, the Big Ten with four of them and the Pac 12 with four of them.  It just doesn't work.  Seriously, give it a try.  Maybe you could reasonably fill up the three eastern most conferences, but you can't do anything for the Pac 12, especially with BYU and Boise being no-gos.  


May 22nd, 2012 at 10:54 PM ^

True.  When the Pac-10 was going to become the Pac-16, and the B1G was saying "hold on a minute y'all, we didn't say we only wanted one team" you could kind of see it happening.

Now, though, Texas is "committed to the Big 12" because it's the only place that will put up with their shit - they didn't go to the Pacific because the Pac folks made it clear they'd be the new kids on the block and would be treated as such.  And the ACC didn't want to put up with that, either.

I think it's possible the ACC may now lose a couple teams, but not inevitable, and the conference will not be carved up because I just don't think the B1G and SEC have any interest in being a lifeboat.  We're getting close to the point where all five conferences cannot add anyone else because it wouldn't add any value.


May 22nd, 2012 at 11:33 PM ^

Like I said last time, I don't see any way NC State/UNC and VT/UVA are allowed to be split up, and three of those four are the only really attractive options in the ACC. After that you get Maryland, aka the Mizzou of the east. I think the remaining schools will just poach a couple of the solid Big East schools (Louisville, Cincy and UConn being the only real choices) and stabilize. Clemson and FSU are big football loses, but not enough to kill a league with that much history.

meanwhile, the Big 12 will have some awkward divisions 

Ed Shuttlesworth

May 22nd, 2012 at 4:45 PM ^

The Rose and Jerry Bowls will be the de facto, but not guaranteed, national semis in a plus-one post-bowl championship game.

Schools not currently in a Big Four Power Conference will have every incentive to try to get into one of those conferences, and it they can't get in, will be left with whatever path is negotiated for the possibility of geting to the final.  They obviously can't and won't be left out, but they also won't have the golden opportunity to go into the post-bowl selection process with a win over a Big Four champ as the last entry on their resume.

That's  why these realignment stories are credible -- the Jerry Bowl announcement was a leading indicator of what was coming next.


May 22nd, 2012 at 7:49 PM ^


“@GSwaim: #ND to #Big12 has more teeth today than I ever thought it could just a few weeks ago. The Irish are already going through proper channels.”

“@GSwaim: With #FSU & #ND quite possibly to the #Big12, and their precedent setting deal with the #SEC, the #B1G won't want to sit around long either.”

“@GSwaim: I'm told that #ND will jump in #Big12 very soon with Olympic sports, and then football joins after TV contract expires. #BlowsMyMind”

“@GSwaim: The #ND deal apparently was a catalyst for getting #FSU aboard all along. This thing is happening fast now for the #Big12...”

“@GSwaim:I don't know exactly how fast, but am told in the #ND athletic department that today things were "all go" for the move. #Surreal”

“@GSwaim: The time frame for #ND phasing in football could allow them to phase out contracts with #Purdue, #MSU, #GoBlue, #USC, #Stanford or #Navy.”

“@GSwaim: Virtually insure two more teams, in addition to #FSU & #ND. With #VaTech possibly #SEC bound, #Clemson is top #Big12 choice. Who's next?”




Notre Dame – Obviousy the Big 12 (and everyone else) want the Irish, but the Big 12 can offer them something few can…their own TV deal. From everything we’re hearing today, expect the Irish to join the Big 12 in all non-football sports in the near future, and then football later. However, they very well may be playing half the teams in the conference in football, allowing them to also keep their traditional rivalries with USC, Stanford, Navy, Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue until the time they would become full Big 12 members in all sports.


May 22nd, 2012 at 8:58 PM ^

This is absurd on nearly every level.

First is that it's not goign to be 4 conferences of 16, as the PAC-12 has no additional schools with which to expand. BYU? No. Idaho? No. Anything in the Big12? NO, and that includes Texas, as it's not worth it given the new Pac12 contract and network. They don't need Texas anymore, period.

Second, the Big Ten doesn't have to expand. Not only is the Pac12 not going to, but there is no reason for the Big Ten to be forced into it. It's the single biggest entity in the combined Academics/Athletics college arena. Massive, wealthy, far-flung alumni bases that show up. They aren't getting left out of any playoff or anything that has TV involved. The only reason for the Big Ten to do anything is because it benefits all members. Very, very few adds would accomplish that. Think about it, the SEC, ACC, and Big12 are all set in TV contracts until 2025-27, the Big Ten's is up in 2016, and given that even now the Big Ten has pretty much the same deal as the SEC, how much better will it be in 4 years?

It's not like the Big Ten is ever going to need money, so what's the appeal of playing Rutgers? VA Tech? UCONN? Pittsburgh? None of these are national names or historic powers in anything. They will never be in the Big Ten, and anyone mentioning them is pretty much shooting a hole in their credibility.

Blue Durham

May 22nd, 2012 at 9:37 PM ^

but I agree that this has all been so absurd. The only way that some kind of weird 4-superconference is going to happen is if each of the present conferences relinquish their independence and power to some kind of NCAA Czar that can set aside small issues affecting individual institutions (or a particular conference) and make something happen that make sense on a national rather than local or regional level. Aint gonna happen.

Geography matters. FSU to the BIG12. Fine for the very short term; unsustainable anything longer than that. Because of this, in order to get to the 4 16-team super conferences, certain teams will have to be forced into certain conferences. Syracuse, West Virginia, UConn, Pitt, and yes, even Rutgers, are going to have to have a home. As much as we'd like, we can't just shove them all into the SEC. Another reason why this just isn't going to happen.

Texas and Notre Dame with their own TV contract dominating a feeble conference. Fine short term, but who wants to watch game after game, year after year, of uncompetitive games against over-matched, out-resourced teams. The Big Ten is great now and has the TV audience not because it is like the 1970's where it was the Big 2 and little 8, but because the games against Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Illinois, and shit, even Northwestern, are in doubt when the ball is teed up. No drama, no audience. If Texas, Oklahoma and ND are going to dominate the Big12 due to a disparity of resources, no one outside of die-hard fans of the specific team will watch the weekly massacre against the weaker sisters.

And ultimately, most of the teams that are left out of the discussion for super conferences (BYU, Wyoming, Boise State, etc.) are going to have to be appeased. They are part of the NCAA and are not going to just take it up the ass. Oh, and neither are the bowls either. And don't think they don't have a little cash to help lobby some schools or institutions to their side.

In short (ha - that's a laugh after this diatribe), a lot more than 64 schools are going to have to come together on this, and I don't see any overriding reason for them to do so. Realize that this all has repercussions well beyond football. And to make anything substantial happen, there has to be centralized power well beyond what is present in the NCAA.

Good "seeing" you again, ShockFX


May 22nd, 2012 at 10:07 PM ^

I think the point could be made that the Big XII has a worse problem now without Notre Dame and FSU. If the conference only has Oklahoma and Texas as its powers, then every other game is boring and meaningless. At least FSU and ND recruit well, and have had some success. Furthermore, ND can just do what it does with the Big East, but cherry pick, and only play UT, OU, FSU, and maybe then three gimme games, and keep its old games with Michigan and USC, etc.

I realize that many schools will be left out, but money runs the game, and New Mexico State ain't got it, therefore little power to actually stop it. Many school might be able to string together other conferences, but they will be D1 in name only, if at all.


May 22nd, 2012 at 10:22 PM ^

The Big Ten can do whatever it wants right now because it's the Big Ten. Outside of ND, there isn't a compelling school in play that would make geographic and financial sense for us to add. And if we did add ND, we would have to add another school to balance the divisions. Who would we add who wouldn't cancel out the value brought by ND? Pitt? Rutgers? Give me a break. I'm not down to add an otherwise uncompelling school just to get ND (like the SEC added Big Ten reject Mizzou). To hell with ND and everyone else. We ain't gotta expand nothin' for nobody.


May 23rd, 2012 at 1:11 PM ^

why anyone in the Big Ten wants Notre Dame. This is a school that's turned down conference membership multiple times and is the object of your constant vilification. What's really to be gained?

1. You already play them every year, so adding them does nothing. In fact you'd play less often unless they were in your division or protected game.

2. More Revenue, yeah I guess so, but not that much when split up amongst all schools

3. Better conference? Well, the more added on, the less you play current members. At least       adding NU brought balanced division play.

4. Academics? Great undergrad school, research $$ not so much

5. Cultural fit? Private, religious, small, independent to the core and east coast oriented.

So why not just keep them as the nonconference rival they are?