OT - Maybe more chance of Izzo leaving?
I think he stays, especially with the sentiments of his former players mixed in. It would be bittersweet if he left anyways; maybe good for Michigan now, but in the long run bad for Michigan.
I did find it interesting as well that LeBron claimed that Cleveland "has an edge" in signing him.
Edit: Forgot the link.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5268981
Edit#2: Alright then, I give. I will say once more though, for the record, that I love beating the pants off the Spartans. Tom Izzo seems like one of the good guys though, that does things the right way, and does honor to his team and our conference. He is good for the State of Michigan, does right by his community, and is a damn fine basketball coach. I am a born and raised Wolverine, married to a fine lady Wolverine, and the son, grandson, and brother of Wolverines. Yet I am not so proud as to wish a native Michigander exile in that horrible place to the south.
So go ahead, I realize the negbangers are weak POSs that want our BBall program to be spoon-fed back to prominence rather than be built the right way.
How will it be bad for Michigan? We might actually get some of the top in-state recruits now.
How would this be bad news in the long-run for Michigan? I can't possibly foresee how it would be anything but great news (in the short- and long-term) if Izzo left - I believe the chances that MSU gets a coach as great as Izzo in the next 25 years are pretty, pretty, pretttttaaaaaay slim.
I hate losing to MSU as much as the next guy. But having a coaching talent like that in our conference, and at our rival, is a net benefit IME. It is Michigan's (and hopefully Johnny B's) duty to get their game up to MSU's level and make the rivalry real, not the other way around.
Of course if he left, we could probably get better quicker... that is the short term.
If we were discussing football, I would agree with you (since we recruit successfully all over the nation).
However, I think that when it comes to the college basketball, there is enough in-state high school talent for one elite team (evidenced by the fact that either MSU or U-M, but not both, has been considered an elite team for each of probably the last 25 years). It's absolutely an oversimplification, but when MSU owns Detroit, they are great. When we own Detroit, we are great.
If Izzo were to leave, it certainly gives Beilein the opportunity to gain the upper hand in recruiting in the state of Michigan which I believe is incredibly important.
Then it will never be a rivalry that amounts to much. Personally, I could see Izzo staying and keeping MSU near the top much like Dean Smith did at UNC, then Michigan (again, hopefully under Beilein) getting their own program up there to rival them proper, like Duke (not that we would be anything like the dukies, just an example). The rivalry itself would feed into national recruiting and be really exciting.
For the past two decades it has stunk as a rivalry. When only one team is dominant, that is selling the potential short. Both UM and MSU have enough basketball tradition to make a true rivalry.
The series has always been like that. Outside of the odd season here and there, the two programs have almost never been good at the same time.
I keed.
If Izzo leaving is bad news for us in the short term, does that mean we're enjoying the "good news" right now? Uh yeah, not exactly. I'll buy his ticket out of town.
I didn't say bad short term. I said bad long term. And you are right with your statement above. It has never really been that both teams were top notch. Izzo staying is the first piece to changing that, though it may be a slow process or never happen. For UM-MSU to be listed in the great rivalries of sport, eventually both teams would need coaches capable of achieving that status.
I am a dreamer though.
Sorry, I actually meant to type "long term." Personally, I just want to see us bounce back. MSU being weaker helps us. I care less about the rivalry than I do about us being a power again. And Izzo leaving MSU is almost guaranteed to help us, because it will be virtually impossible to find a replacement as good as he is.
BTW, while Izzo's a great coach, he's not the classy guy people make him out to be. He used to have a reputation (and maybe still does, I don't know) as an extremely negative recruiter. He was a shark circling the waters when we were being investigated.
No doubt, you speak truth sai.
If he weren't being courted by an Ohio team, maybe got to hang out and get a tan somewhere nice, I could at least feel good for him. Despite being a Spartan, he deserves better than f'in Ohio.
So go ahead, I realize the negbangers are weak POSs that want our BBall program to be spoon-fed back to prominence rather than be built the right way.
Are you always an ultra-defensive twatmuffin with a tenuous grasp, at best, of the English language? Or is it only when you make indefensible statements in your original posts followed by a half-redaction of the language that you failed to justify, and you just can't bring yourself to allow the people who respectfully disagreed with you or decided that your posts weren't worthy of a positive vote to remain un-insulted?
For the record, I was just about to give you a +1 for the original post given that you provided a much better reason for why you would be disappointed to see Izzo leave...until I saw the final paragraph. Perhaps you are just drunk?
You do speak well, but where is my tenuous grasp of English exactly? I am always up for a critique that I can learn from. Keep your +1, if you were planning on giving one. I'm not in it for the money, I came to make a point and I find negbanging to be of little value without intelligent conversation to back it up.
I respect you for at least saying something. Please forgive my negativity. Please?
The "tenuous grasp, at best, of the English language" was more of a paraphrase of an episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia and an attempt to be ironic by insulting you while criticizing you for insulting others rather than a legitimate point.
I agree with you on the neg-banging combined with a lack of response providing little value (unless someone else has already expressed the neg-banger's point of view, which may not be the case here)...I simply thought you went way overboard with the insults and false assumptions about what the down-votes were for and what the neg-bangers views on Michigan basketball were.
Consider yourself forgiven, and seriously, thank you for posting the link.
Izzo built MSU by taking advantage of the Martin scandal to pretty much get whoever he wanted instate for the entire "aughts" decade. It shows what a coach can do if he has a lock on the state's best players. Izzo is definitely a very good coach, but it certainly didn't hurt that he was able to get so many talented players for his team. Now that the stigma of the scandal is pretty much gone, Michigan is finally starting to get a few good players again.
If Izzo leaves, I can see Michigan starting to get more of those players than MSU. If Michigan is getting better players and also has the better coach, it isn't too difficult to imagine what that could mean to both programs. If Izzo stays, the kids he talked into staying now know that he was ready to leave them; that has to affect team chemistry and "coachability" of his players. Also, perspective recruits will know that he may leave if he gets the "right" offer. And any rival coach who doesn't remind recruits of just that would be negilgent in his duties.
I think the fact that discussions were leaked was great for Michigan. I also think that if Izzo does leave, it will be even better.
If Izzo stays, it will be clear to all his plaers and future players that he is staying for the duration. He is now in his 50's, it is now or never, and the money most likely won't get more attractive.
As far as the scandal goes, get real, he won his one national championship with a senior laden team in 2000. IIRC, Cleeves was being recruited by M, and his recruitment eventually became a big part of the scandal.
I think Izzo's success is also a result of combing the Midwest (not just Michigan), finding his type of players, and just good coaching (mostly in the tourney).
Let's take a look at the high-profile in-state recruits claimed by each school from '02 to '08 (only dates that Rivals has available).
MSU: Maurice Ager, Paul Davis, Drew Neitzel, Durrell Summers, Kalin Lucas, Draymond Green
UM: Lester Abram, Dion Harris, Ron Coleman, Jerret Smith, Dion Sims, Manny Harris
Now, you could say that Jerret and Coleman were highly overrated (and maybe captured too early in the process), but those lists look fairly even, don't they? In the case of Lester and Dion there were maybe some developmental issues (and poor coaching).
Looking back a little earlier, sure, Mateen Cleaves is maybe the best example. Jason Richardson is another good one. But, Michigan scored Lavell Blanchard (#1 nationally on some lists) around the same time.
I agree that UM would've scored more of those players without a scandal. But, I don't think that the in-state personnel are the most important issue.
Izzo spent all day today in Cleveland going over more details with the Cavs. And he took his family.
featuring Nix crying and "500" (no way in hell given the video feed i saw) fans showing up. albeit impromptu it didn't appear to be the type of mass outpouring that turns a head coaches stance on a job offer. izzo already knows he's East Lansing's golden calf.
the Cleveland contract offer? the amount of money he's going to be making would hurt their parents feelings. and he's going to make it rain. Every. Single. Night. Dollar dollar bills, ya'll.
According to the ESPN interview about 15 minutes ago, Izzo is still in Cleveland.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: There's an awful lot of smoke for there not to be a fire.
Spartan fans are so over the top about how Izzo is either
- not going anywhere OBVIOUSLY
- just exploring his options
- doing what he has to before deciding to stay
the line has consistently been that there was zero chance he leaves. now he's staying in Cleveland for the night. if i were an MSU fan i would be pissed because this is such a long process. he's dragging the school through glass with this maybe crap.