maizeandblue21

April 8th, 2011 at 6:09 PM ^

he is one of the best pure hitters of all time and as a baseball fan i respect his ability and you are aware than there were over 300 players on the initial mitchell report so you have probably supported and respected a cheater. just because he cheated doesnt mean you cant respect him if you have watched him play baseball you would understand that you either love or hate manny but you respect what he can do with a baseball bat

Monocle Smile

April 8th, 2011 at 6:16 PM ^

you have probably supported and respected a cheater.

Most of us drop our support and lose respect for players once cheating is unveiled. In case you didn't know.

Ramirez might be one the best pure hitters in the league today, but I have a hard time saying he's one the best of all time.

Maybe it's just because I think Ichiro's better and doesn't cheat.

bosox1519

April 8th, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^

Ichiro and Manny are completely different players and each is great in his own right, but I don't think it is fair to say Ichiro is better than Ramirez. 555 Homeruns, .312 career Avg. He averaged 39 home runs and 129 RBIs per 162 games for his career Which is pretty remarkable. I think it is completely fair to refer to him as one of the greatest hitters in history. Ichiro is a great player all around but nothing more than a fantastic singles hitter. He's only topped 30 doubles 3 times in his career and never more than 40, something Ramirez accomplished several years. Say what you want about whether or not he's a cheater, but Ramirez had a hell of a lot of natural talent too.

MichFan1997

April 8th, 2011 at 7:46 PM ^

than RBIs (putting aside cheating, for the sake of argument here), you can look at Manny's .996 OPS and compare that to Ichiro's total of .805. For comparison's sake, Ryan Raburn is just a touch under .800. So unless you're taking cheating into account, and probably even if you aren't, Manny is way better than Ichiro.

And I don't want to hear about Ichiro's .331 batting average because even with that, he STILL doesn't even get on base as frequently as Manny did.

wolverine1987

April 8th, 2011 at 7:59 PM ^

Manny, despite in fact being a great hitter and kind of a jovial guy, is also an ass that quit on his own team in order to get a new contract, paid little attention to defense, costing several games through comical lack of attention to getting better at it, AND he cheated throughout his career. I have no respect for him, but it's not just because he cheated, it's because he's a bad guy.

MichFan1997

April 8th, 2011 at 8:08 PM ^

that not any of the things you mentioned had anything to do with hitting baseballs, which is what I was talking about. And I didn't forget about the cheating either. You might have noticed the word worked its way into my post.

Being an ass has nothing to do with hitting ability. Ty Cobb had a career OPS of .945 (about the same as Miggy) and by all accounts was one of the worst human beings to ever play the game. Doesn't change his ability to hit the ball.

wolverine1987

April 8th, 2011 at 9:02 PM ^

which I didn't address because I agreed with your point. I just think there are a lot of reasons to not respect Manny, as I stated, and some are baseball related, not just personality related. With regard to hitting, facts are facts, he's elite.

Urban Warfare

April 9th, 2011 at 12:38 AM ^

Manny any faster.  Bigger and stronger, maybe, but not faster.  Have you seen him on the base paths?

Having been a fan of Manny (at the plate only-not in the field or on the base paths) since he first came up with the Indians, I think Manny may be one of the few players who I'd believe if he said he didn't know what was in the cream/pill/shake/whatever.  He's really that dumb, as anyone who watched him in Cleveland will tell you.  During the OJ trial, Manny thought Tribe pitcher Chad Ogea (pronounced "OJ") was the defendant; when Ogea showed up for a game, Manny offered to hide him, thinking Ogea had busted out of jail and was on the run.

AAB

April 8th, 2011 at 8:12 PM ^

Manny has 71 WAR in 17.  

Ichiro is a career .354 wOBA hitter with a career UZR of 126.  Manny is a career .417 wOBA player with a career UZR of -155.  

Just eyeballing it, they're pretty close.  

Tagg

April 8th, 2011 at 7:44 PM ^

Do you respect him?

He's won a lot of games over the years, proving that he is a good coach. Has one national championship and has made it to I believe 3 NC games. Has won BCS games and does better in rivalry games than maybe any coach in OSU history. I hate him for obvious reasons but I did respect him because he seemed less douchy than guys like Saban, Kiffen, and Spurrier. That went out the window when it came out his cheating directly led to wins. Tressel manipulated the game by playing people that he knew would be ineligable. Without those players he loses a couple of games early and their season is dead. OSU doesn't go to the Sugar Bowl and the school doesn't get the massive pay day.

I don't see how his manipulation is bad and Manny's two failed tests and countless character issues is ok because "he's a great hitter". He can be a great hitter, when he wants to be.

AAB

April 8th, 2011 at 8:16 PM ^

Michigan "cheated" when it stretched too much.  Tressel might be paying players or allowing payers to be paid by boosters.

This all depends on where you think steroids fall on the spectrum.  I think steroids are like stretching too much, or like throwing a spitball, not like Tressel or Pete Rose or the Black Sox.  

bosox1519

April 8th, 2011 at 6:39 PM ^

Yankees: Hughes, Posada, Jeter, CANO, Chamberlain, Rivera.

Red Sox: Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Varitek, Daniel Bard

I think its far to say that BOTH teams have done a great job developing talent.

That's more than1 or 2 players in the past 15 years.

How many key players have the Tigers developed that are still on their roster? Inge (not really a good player), Verlander (ace), Porcello (has potential), Bennan Boesch (though he has serious flaws in his swing). 

maizeandblue21

April 8th, 2011 at 7:51 PM ^

players but i dont think the yankees are as good theyve traded away a lot of their farm system in the past years (Ajax trade) but i do think they have a great GM at hand and if they dont resign cashman and the tigers dont keep Dombroski they should do their best to get him.

bosox1519

April 8th, 2011 at 6:30 PM ^

 


I realize they have much more flexibilty when it comes to payroll so they can do a lot more. But can you blame them? If the Tigers had that kind of money, wouldn't you want them to spend it? So while I think it's unfair that they have such a competitive advantage when it comes to payroll, they aren't breaking any rules*. So I don't think it is fair to criticize them for spending more than other teams. 

 

*I am in support of some sort of salary cap system in MLB

david from wyoming

April 8th, 2011 at 6:21 PM ^

Um, not to be a buzz kill, but I bet almost every MLB team has had a star player or former star player that was using PED's. As a Tigers's fan, I hate to say it, but I would bet the Pudge wasn't clean for large parts of his career.

exmtroj

April 8th, 2011 at 8:30 PM ^

Seriously? Barry Bonds is a perfect case study. Dude wasn't bashing 73 homers a year and stealing records before he showed his obvious steroid symptoms. It's pretty obvious what effect steroids have on baseball performance, just look at Mcgwire, Sosa, Clemens, and A-Fraud.

Mgobowl

April 8th, 2011 at 8:38 PM ^

To piggy back on your comment, steroids are not going to help you hit a ball. You have to have the hand eye coordination. Roids might help you hit it farther and HGH might help you recover from injury faster, but neither is going to make your hands swing a bat in such a way that it hits a little round ball.

MAgoBLUE

April 8th, 2011 at 6:49 PM ^

After Red Sox manager Dan Duquette signed Manny to the biggest contract in club history he was nervous about his investment.  He watched the first few weeks of the season and noticed on more than one occasion that an umpire had to tell Manny to take first after ball 4.  He caught up with Manny in the clubhouse after a game and asked him straight up, "why are you having to be told to go to first base after ball 4?".  Manny's answered that he doesn't keep track of the balls.