OT - Lost - Across the Sea

Submitted by MGoBender on May 11th, 2010 at 9:45 PM

Here we go.  Not yet finished, but figured I'd get a jump on it.

Interesting to see the origin of the wheel thingy that moved the island (right?).

Other than that, this is moving a little slow, though interesting.

 

EDIT: So a great ending as always!  A bit of the authors showing off their plan was really set from the beginning (maybe? prob not exactly set) with the clips back to the first season.  Any other major things to note?

Comments

MGoBender

May 11th, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^

The Adam and Eve comment by Locke is weird.  It just doesn't make sense.  I can kinda see mom/mom killer as Eve - committed original sin by killing the mother.  But how is MiB Adam?  What does that make Jacob?

If it was an innocent, incorrect comment by Locke why was it included at the end?  Adam and Eve metaphors are omnipresent in literature, tv, movies, music, etc.  Why mention Adam and Eve when it's not really there?

Also, after this I'm thinking Desmond is the one to take over for Jacob.  Maybe Desmond has already drank that special liquid and that's why he has survived the extreme electromagnetism.

seattleblue

May 12th, 2010 at 2:32 AM ^

To me, the fact that "Adam and Eve" turns out to be a nutty mom and her son is the whole point.  Until tonight's episode I assumed that "Adam and Eve" would be an "Adam and Eve" or at least a dead coupling i.e. Bernard and Rose or Sun and Jin (pre tragic sub death) because I bought into Locke's original statement way back in season one.  Turns out that comment was a red herring.  Just like the castaways, the viewers are being manipulated.

What I took away from this episode is that Jacob is not all good.  He committed fraticide.  This whole story about an island guardian/ candidate/ etc that he buys into and is trying to fulfill comes from a crazy lady who killed a pregnant lady, a whole camp of people and even came close to killing her son. Frankly MIB did not seem that bad.  He just had a severe case of wanderlust/ island fever until his brother killed him and he turned to smoke.  This makes me doubt the island mythology and the need for a "candidate."  The island has special powers, but Jacob is not all knowing and neither was his mother.  They were human too and pretty messed up. 

Also of note - MIB reminded me of pre-season 5 Jack, who just wanted off the island.  Jacob reminded me of Locke, who just wanted to stay.

joeyb

May 12th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^

I don't think she is crazy. That would imply she isn't on the island for a reason and I think she is. Although, it would be interesting to see Claire be the one who takes over and then have her kill some other woman that gets stranded on the island and has twins.

GoBlueInNYC

May 11th, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^

I don't know if I buy that the creators really planned this out entirely from the beginning (I think they might be looking back at previous seasons and referencing things after the fact), but they are doing an admirable job of tying things back to the beginning, which I appreciate.

Overall, I think this was a really fantastic episode!  It's definitely up there as one of my favorites.

One crazy thought, every one wants to know who will replace Jacob (my money is on Sawyer - reluctant but capable, he'll be forced into it by necessity, much like Jacob), but what about the possibility that there will be a new Man in Black?  Given that the light that gives the island its power is somehow connected to the pockets of electromagnetism (or they're the same or whatever), Desmond is the only person who has been able to withstand exposure to the electromagnetism/light and live.  He is "special" but not a candidate for protecting the island, just like the Man in Black.  Will he be the new smoke monster?

MGoBender

May 11th, 2010 at 10:23 PM ^

You're prob more accurate about the referencing of the old episodes.  I didn't mean to imply that this exact story was set from the beginning - I'm sure it wasn't.  Small clarification made in an edit of my original post.

You bring up a very interesting point - will there be a new MiB?

If we are looking at parallels for a new Man in Black, I would look at Sawyer who has the similar drive to get off the island.  I guess at this point it's anyone's guess at how it all plays out.

Wolverine318

May 11th, 2010 at 11:09 PM ^

This may seem like a weird theory, but I am actually starting to believe Hurley will be the new man in black. Hurley, like the MiB is special and can communicate with the dead. Hurley also like the MiB before he learned the truth about his birth mother, loves games (ie Hurley creating the golf course on the island).  I maybe reaching here, but the murder of Libby and something else to come will drive Hurley over the edge. 

Although, I am most likely getting distracted by Hurley's ability to communicate with the dead. Miles also has abilities to listen to an individual's last thoughts before they died. 

whyyoumadtho

May 11th, 2010 at 10:22 PM ^

I think that Jack has to take over for Jacob. That's just the way TV and movies work. The main character is the one everything happens to. So I am still sticking with the safe and easy answer.

Todd Plate's n…

May 12th, 2010 at 7:02 AM ^

Yes!  The thought of Aaron being the one creeped into my head watching last night...other than MiB and Jacob, is he the only child we've seen born on the island?  If memory serves, he is.   Or wait, did rousseau (sp?) give birth on the island to her and Ben's daughter? (name escaping me). 

 

Syyk

May 12th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^

There have been other children born on the island, including Rousseau's daughter (whose name escapes me at the moment).  There was a fairly important plotline in the beginning of the series, where everyone who gave birth on the island died.  I actually thought that was going to happen to Jacob and MiB's mother, but maybe her murder has something to do with that.

Ron Swanson

May 11th, 2010 at 10:25 PM ^

to think that the writers don't want to explain anything ever.  Finding out where Adam and Eve came from was nice, but it's just a small mystery that has nothing to do with the big picture.  Once again I leave with more questions at the end, but there's only 2 episodes left.  They had so many opportunities this episode to explain some of the bigger picture things but they chose to be ambiguous.  

I still love the show and I know the final episodes won't disappoint, but if the final episode ends with another WTF moment, I don't know what I'll do.

MGoBender

May 11th, 2010 at 10:55 PM ^

I think by now there are some things that you just have to suspend belief for - that's Lost.  It's more of a sci-fi story than many people want it to be and there's simply going to be things in it that cannot be explained according to our physical laws.  Example from tonight:

 

Origin of the black smoke monster.  This mystery was solved tonight.  The black smoke monster was created when Jacob pushed the body of his brother into the light.  Jacob's mom said that if Jacob were to go in there, he would find a fate worse than death.  So, the MiB has been sentenced, by Jacob, to some "hell" in which he is transformed into the black smoke monster. 

Someone hoping for all the answers in the world (and part of me thinks like this) may say "Well that didn't solve anything.  What is that light?  How did it turn MiB into the smoke monster? etc, etc"  However, I think those are some of the questions where you simply have to accept that there is some supernatural power with the island and it is that power that has created the smoke monster.

M-Wolverine

May 11th, 2010 at 11:36 PM ^

With so little time left, it's not really the point for more questions. I mean, is the MiB the Smoke Monster? Or is the Smoke Monster just taking on the look of another dead person? How do they get to the point of eternal battle? They seemed to set a lot up, just to complete it in this episode, but give us very little on the overall story. Who were the people on the island, where were they from? Why was their mother with them carrying special kids (who could actually be born on the island)? Why did the new "mother" kill her and take them? Who was she? What power and knowledge of the island did she have? If she made it so the 2 couldn't kill each other (how?), how did Jacob kill MiB? How/when do they get these mystical powers? And the stated reason for killing everyone last week was to show MiB/Locke was really a bad dude. Well, IF everyone is who they look like from this episode (and they're not switching places), we're back to Jacob looking like a dick, and MiB justifiable. Jacob is a whiny man-child who attacks his brother as a child, then kills him as an adult, to avenge his serial murderer "mom". MiB is a guy who the ghost of his real mother comes to tell him the woman who raised him killed her; wants to just get off the island; and avenged a whole dead village. Who looks like the bad guy? There must be some role switch coming up, or none of this makes any sense. Jacob, who leaves the island to contact candidates the one who kills to keep his brother from leaving? Uhn uh. Last week's was great, and it was bold to go an episode with no major characters with so little time left, but unless there's a lot more to come (it felt like a part one with no part 2), this was a wrong turn at this point and time.

VictorsValiant09

May 11th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^

So many religious references in this episode you just had to relish: Adam/Eve, Cain/Abel, Creationism, Last Supper with the wine, etc.  One of the more richer series in television history.

I think that Desmond will be the new MiB of sorts.  Desmond was also forced into a responsibility he didn't want to take--that of pushing the button in the Hatch.  Ironically, Locke did once, too.

Wendyk5

May 11th, 2010 at 11:16 PM ^

My husband and I watched all the seasons over the past year and a half on DVD. Now that we're into the last season, I''m frustrated with all the cryptic confusion. The last episode better have ALL the answers, big and small, and it better be meaningful, big picture stuff. 

MGoBender

May 12th, 2010 at 9:24 AM ^

You'll probably be disappointed.  They'll answer a lot.  But they'll also reward those that closely followed the series and give them the tools to find the answers themselves.  The whole series has a been a puzzle.  I'm guessing that while they'll give the important big answers to satisfy most, they'll leave some of the smaller stuff either:

Open to interpretation, or

Left unconfirmed, but with the evidence in the series for us to figure out

Bighousemike84

May 11th, 2010 at 11:53 PM ^

I honestly feel remorse for the MiB character. In every way possible he seemed to be a decent guy with no other intention but to find out more about who he really was and were he was really from. Jacob came off as a real asshole and even a murderer for killing his own brother in cold blood. MiB seemed fully justified in killing the woman claiming to be his mother and I was happy to see that he did.

I am beginning to think that that is an intended purpose of this episode. The episode before establishes the evil intentions of Flocke and then abruptly we are given a glimpse into his motivations and we are left to feel somewhat dorry for the character and feel that he was driven to evil. It forces the viewer to cast doubt on everything that they might have believed about Jacob up to this point, something that the writers must have done as a plot device to amp up the final 2 episodes.

As always the episode answered a few questions and created many more but at this point I dont expect ay less from the most maddening television show in the history of television.

Tim Waymen

May 12th, 2010 at 12:51 AM ^

While the episode was interesting, there is still a ton we don't know.  For one thing, I think that the episode might actually be telling us that while Flocke is evil, the man that his original form is derived from was actually far more complex and became something else, but I don't know.  What the hell was Jacob doing and did that event create the Smoke Monster?  And what year did that episode take place?  (The SM shows up in hieroglypics around the Island.)  Is that mysterious boy in the jungle Jacob?  While terrific, this episode does seem to set up too many questions with too little time remaining, and I never complain about being confused by the show.

I agree that the story is really setting up for Jack to take over.  I think that Jack and Locke were really the 2 most important characters in the series.  That whole debate between Jacob and the MiB?  Jack essentially proved the MiB wrong with his "live together, die alone" speech.  Despite plenty of infighting, the situation never escalated into Lord of the Flies.  Plus Locke is important to Jack discovering what he truly believes without having to look to the drink.  (Btw, Jack's zealotry about the Island that developed after he left is a hallmark of alcoholics and addicts, and he overcame it.)   Also, I loved how Jack pushed Flocke into the water last week, saying "That man was John Locke!"  It's great because Locke was much more than the gullible fool that the MiB's slandered him as.

And one crazy thing: do we now know why it is important that Desmond can withstand a catastrophic EM event?  Also, who else here thinks that FlashForward blows?

MGoBender

May 12th, 2010 at 9:22 AM ^

What the hell was Jacob doing and did that event create the Smoke Monster?

Um, yes.  Jacob pushed the unconscious MiB into the cave of light.  The cave of light that crazy mother lady said would lead to something worse than death.  Immediately after he pushed the body in there there was a big rumble and the smoke monster came out of the cave of light and flew into the jungle.

What more could they have done to confirm it? Make a billboard in the middle of the jungle that said "The beginning of the smoke monster"?

Tim Waymen

May 12th, 2010 at 1:40 PM ^

Well, obviously that's what turned the MiB into the smoke monster.  What I meant was, was there another smoke monster before him?  Like is he just filling a role?  The reason I asked what year the episode takes place in is because there are hieroglyphics around the Island (e.g. in the part outside the temple where Ben sees the MiB in the form of his daughter in season 5), suggesting that the SM has been around for ages.  I guess it is implied that the episode takes place way before the 1700s i.e. >2000 years ago because the two women are speaking in Latin in the beginning.

After thinking about it a little more, I've also realized that questions as to whether there was another SM or why sending his bro downstream into the light caused him to turn into the SM is really of little consequence.

MGoBender

May 12th, 2010 at 1:47 PM ^

After thinking about it a little more, I've also realized that questions as to whether there was another SM or why sending his bro downstream into the light caused him to turn into the SM is really of little consequence.

Good analysis.  That's essentially how I look at it.

If he's the first SM, then, ok, he's the first SM.  Then we saw his origin and we understand alot about the motives of FLocke.

If he's not the first SM, then as you mentioned, its of little consequence to the story that we are being told.  We still understand the motives of FLocke.  We see the origin of MiB --> SM.  Whether or not he's the first doesn't really change anything.

The Shredder

May 12th, 2010 at 12:46 AM ^

I am still betting on Jack taking Jacobs spot. Just from "Jack it's you" in the Sub. May 22nd and 23rd is gonna be awesome. BBQ at the Big House and Lost. What more could a tin head want? 

The Shredder

May 12th, 2010 at 12:56 AM ^

As far as people getting every little  answer they want, it's just not gonna happen. The show is suppose to have some wonder and the unexplained. It's suppose to challenge the mind. Does it matter what year it is? How the smoke was made? Not important to the overall story. Its how I felt about the Matrix. The first one was so great to me(still is) because your mind was firing off all these possible things and idea's. Once it all came out it became sorta "blah"(I still like all three but the first was !!!!!). Just enjoy LOST for what it is. The journey is almost over. 

Geaux_Blue

May 12th, 2010 at 5:11 AM ^

there doesn't need to be two. only one. the "mom" was the "one" until the two babies. Jack can be the guardian without another person.

 

i think it ends with whoever the guardian is sitting on the beach watching the water and seeing a boat on the horizon, indicating the cycle is anew. btw, it's likely "three" episodes remain given tv's proclivity for final episodes lasting two hours.

akearney50

May 12th, 2010 at 12:39 PM ^

The series finale is on Sunday, May 23rd and I read somewhere that it is going to be 2.5 hours long.  I was hoping for a six part (each part being 2 hours long) finale but I'll settle for this.

umjgheitma

May 12th, 2010 at 2:17 PM ^

switching languages mid-conversation? Someone asked what year that took place and well there was a woman of Spanish decent speaking English. Don't know if that's a clue but ti might give some frame of reference (highly doubt it was Egyptian times as someone mentioned hyroglyphs).  

Talpostal

May 12th, 2010 at 3:05 PM ^

I couldn't recognize the language, but I read somewhere that the original title for this episode was "23 A.D." so it may have been Latin.

I believe that they suddenly switched languages so that people wouldn't have to read subtitles any more and that we were supposed to assume that they were still speaking whatever language they were speaking.