December 2nd, 2011 at 1:43 AM ^


Carr is arrogant and, at times, can be quite a prick.

Have you ever seen him in interviews? I have, many many times. He came off so smug/pretentious he made the most arrogant suckeye fan look humble and nice. I used to cringe when he was interviewed at half time during games and during the post game conferences. He talked down to people. Talked to people like they were all idiots and he was THE GREAT Lloyd Carr. I remember one interview in particular when the reporter (at half time) asked him a legit question about a knuckle head call on Carr's part, and Carr looked at him like he was going to stab him to death, sneered and walked off. His demeanor reminds me of Mr. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life.

As far as what he did for this program? Well, if what Bacon said in his book is true, he brought in RR only to sabotage him/stab him in the back and set the program back for three years. Not to mention that he competely sabotaged the Les Miles hire, Carr and Martin. Stay classy Lloyd.

As far as his coaching, I never found him to be a great coach. With all the talent that Michigan recruited year in and year out, we ought to have been competing for NC at least every other year. Instead, we underachieved relative to the talent we had. Carr was good at recruiting, and surrounded himself with some talented coaches/recruiters, but as far as his coaching goes, he reminds me a lot of Mack Brown of Texas. Like Mack, Carr had a plethora of talent at his disposal but severly underachieved with it. The share of a national championship in '97 was nice (it was my sophmore year) but with a top 5/top 10 class every year, the talent was there for a great coach to be in the hunt for a NC on a continual basis (Tressel achieved that at OSU. I have lost all respect for Tressel, but he is a great coach, unlike Carr).



December 2nd, 2011 at 2:12 AM ^

You "never found him to be a great coach", and he's still in the Hall of Fame. Imagine that! 

Comparing him to Tressel is asinine, and you know it. Tressel cheated. Lloyd never did. Funny how Tressel stayed in the hunt for NCs. Almost like Pete Carroll. 

As far as Lloyd being arrogant, I've one small complaint. I agree that he could be veeeeery condescending to the media, but I don't think he was ever arrogant. I don't think he looked down on media because he was Lloyd F'ing Carr, but because most media members know nothing at all about football and work only in creating stories when there often isn't one. I look down on the media. They are stupid, and they ask stupid questions to fit their predetermined stupid narratives.

So, he could be a prick, but I don't think it's arrogance so much as general lack of respect for the media.


December 2nd, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^

Lloyd may have seemed like a prick to the Media but was very giving to charities and to people on a personal level. My friends dad who was a big michigan fan was diagnosed with Lou Gherigs a few years after we graduated High School in 96. He was starting to get really sick so the family had a party for the dad knowing there wasn't much time left for him. There were some surprise guests that day. Into the house walked in Lloyd Carr and a handfull of Michigan players. Lloyd didn't have to do that. The dad wasn't an alumni or booster. There was no coverage of this or nothing to be gained. He did it out of the kidness of his heart. That made my friends dads day that day a little easier and life long fans of Lloyd Carr as a person.

MnB in Nashvegas

December 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 PM ^

I really don't get all of the hating on Carr here. I don't really care if our coach is nice or mean to the media. I think more important is how do his former players view him. There may be a couple of examples of players not appreciating something he did but most former players still say he was the best. For me, that is much more important than whether he was able to give a halftime interview without seeming like he has a better place to be.

I can see not being completely happy with his results, but over 13 years he only had one 5 loss season, only lost three conference games 3 times, and had 4 Rose Bowl appearances. It was nice waking up every Saturday morning and feeling like we SHOULD win. We didn't always win but I always felt like we should have won. Not too different as to how the Buckeye fans have felt over the last several years.

I've followed the program since about 1980 and I can say that I was very proud of our team during each year of the Carr era. There have never been any accusations of rule-breaking during his time. It may be that I have reduced expectations from what maybe I should have had but those were good years as far as I was concerned.


December 2nd, 2011 at 10:05 AM ^

WHoopdie doo...so he is in the college football hall of fame. That makes him great? The college football hall of fame = hall of great to hall of pretty good. Bear Bryant was great. Barry Switzer was great. Frank Leahy was great. Yost was great. Tom Osborne was a great coach. I would not put Carr in the same group as these guys, and others. He is not even close. Just because he is in the college football hall of the greatest to the pretty good does not make him great.


December 2nd, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^

A guy on the internet tells us he didn't think Lloyd was a great coach. 

Say what you will about the Hall of Fame, their opinion is of greater importance than said internet guy's. 

Can't be that hard to follow.

Never compared Carr to Bryant, Bo, or anyone you named. Didn't have to. I wasn't talking about Carr's greatness, just the idea that come people (whose opinions matter, to some degree or another) disagree with internet guy. Huh. Who would have thought?

As for your Hall of Fame qualms: even the Hall of Fame voters wouldn't put Carr in the same class as Yost or Bo. Do you think the Baseball Hall of Fame Voters consider Kirby Puckett to be as good as Babe Ruth? That isn't the point. The fact that he is in the Hall of Fame means a lot of people think he is good.


December 2nd, 2011 at 11:49 AM ^

@Reader 71

If you really think that Carr is a better coach than Tressel than you are most likely in the delusional-Michigan-fan-I-have-my-blinders-on minority group (I would wager to say that most professionals/commentators/announcers, when asked to give their sincere opinion (off the record) would tell you that Tressel was significantly better). Don't get me wrong, I lost pretty much asll respect for Tressel as a person when it came out that he was lying/rigging raffles, etc., but as a coach he is far superior than Carr. You can see that in his: wining percentage, Big 10 Championships, wins over Michigan, NC runs, the amount of players that he developed and put in the NFL, etc. To say that Tressel won only because he cheated is, quite frankly, total BS. It sounds like sour grapes from a fan from the opposing team. The fact that Tressel did lied to the NCAA about tat-gate has nothing to do with his recruiting abilities, his play calling on the field, his ability to develop high school talent into NFL caliber talent. The bottom line is that Tressel was hell of a recruiter (he owned Ohio. Before Tressel, Michigan used to pluck players like Woodson out of Ohio), he brought in top notch high school talent, he then developed and utilized that talent, and along the way collected a lot of Ws, and then sent that talent on to the NFL. So he did not report that some of his players got free tatoos. That has nothing to do with making calls on the field (God, how many times was Carr outcoached by Tressel. He completely owned us) and developing players. Carr had so many top level recruits that ended up mediocre or complete busts because he failed to develop them adequately, especially towards the end of his tenure. The loss to App State, among other sub-par performances and losses, shows how out of touch with reality Carr was. Carr was able to recruit top talent but could not develop that talent. He, along with Mack Brown, is one of the most undeperfoming coaches (relative to the talent he had). Unlike Carr, Tressel was able to bring in top high school players, develop them and, at least, get to title games/BCS bowls.  As for Carr's coaching, God I remember watching games with my buddies and being able to predict his run-run-pass (every now and then throw in the double reverse) play calling. Carr's offenses were boring vanilla, predictable. The only reason why we won in '97 was because of that beast defense which, incidentally, Mattison helped to put together.


December 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 PM ^

I didn't even say Carr was better than Tressel.

What are you reading? Honestly, what? You can't just take one word (Tressel) from my post and go on a tangent. Stick to what I was saying.

I just said that Tressel cheated. He did. All of his accomplishment are thus tainted. 

To remove the fact that players were being paid from the concept of "recruiting" is asinine. I keep having to use that word with you. 

If you are able to see what Tressel did as somehow independent of his cheating, then you are delusional.


December 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 PM ^

You are right, Lloyd did some good things at Michigan and outside of the university. He really was a chearleader for Mott's, which was pretty awesome, and was generous with donating, but the point is he did come off quite arrogant especially when interacting with the media. He had this I-am-better-than-you-bravado, especially with the media. In many instances, he was right down mean. I am not saying that the media does not always deserve a snark remark/silent treatment but, on at least several occasions, Carr came off right-down disrespectful/mean. I remember watching a Michigan game with my law school buddies (none of them went to U of M and none really followed Big 10 football) and I remember, following his half-time interaction/belittling of the reporter, my friend turning to me and saying "wow, your coach is kind of a jerk". Another time we were watching a game, which Michigan happened to lose, and after the game Carr totally blew off the other coach. When you are a coach at a major university you have to act with respect and dignity when interacting with members of the media and other coaches. I am sorry. That is part of the job. You are the spokesperson for the team. I think for most part Carr was probably respectful with regard to other coaches but I know that he was a jerk with the media (other than, maybe, Jim Brandstatter) especially when pushed on controversial topics, or knuckle head calls he and/or his staff made, etc.. People have their not so good days every now and then but Carr was consistently Mr. Henry F. Potter. With Brandstatter who threw him softballs and compliments, he was very nice, but other than that he came of bad. Ohh, and Bacon's Three And Out certainly did NOT improve my view of Carr. He sabotaged Les Miles from coming to Michigan (for whatever personal reason), then he brough in RR only to undermine him (the mass exodus of players which Carr encouraged). Instead of helping RR to transition to Michigan, etc.