OT: The Last Jedi (SPOILER Edition)

Submitted by Michigan Arrogance on December 17th, 2017 at 9:14 AM

Spoiler WARNING. For anyone who wants to discuss TLJ feel free to include any spolier info you want. Here are my thoughts.

 

Best Parts:

  • throne room fight
  • Poe tooling with Hux
  • Luke with Leia toward the end
  • R2 convincing Luke to come back
  • Yoda
  • Holdo with the Hyperspace kamikazi move - beaurty of a sceen
  • Rey vs Luke in the rain
  • the flashbacks
  • DJ the slicer

 

Parts that I thought weren't so good:

  • Super Leia (could have killed her 2-3 ways that would have been fine)
  • Maz from star tours (can't have her on the ship with the resistance? Have her point Finn et al to Lando maybe?)
  • BB-8 piloting an AT-ST
  • Luke milking that thing - I guess it really sets up his character status but that was just weird
  • some of the canto bight stuff went long so it didn't bother me really

I thought it was some amazing screenplay and story telling- every main character had a legit moment of "are they doing the right thing"? Even the secondary characters like Adml Holdo- you didn't know where she was going. Lots of questions answered. Lots of ways to go in the next one. Overall, this was the movie to move the SW story forward and not keep looking backward. Who knows what EpIX will be.

Comments

Bo Schemheckler

December 17th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^

Some of it felt forced or misplaced but I loved alot of it. Rey dropping a rock on the cart, Luke tossing the lightsaber, "reaching out" for the force, "I've seen you're routine, you have the time" and jakku being from nowhere, were all hilarious to me. If they just stop adding humor to the more serious parts they will be fine and I think they're close.

Maize and Bloop

December 17th, 2017 at 10:26 PM ^

I'd rank this #6 in the SW saga, right above the JarJar trilogy.

Things I thought were ridiculous:

-The horse-bunny stampede THROUGH A BUILDING.
-Yoda lightning strike
-Snoke dies way early and quite stupidly
-"Where did all the Crystal Critters go"?
-Luke' s acting...
-Right after the kamikaze/warp speed maneuver only the main characters survive
-Leia just won't die
-the milking... why?
-Benicio del Toro is in this movie?

I was not a fan. Hopefully this movie was all to setup an awesome finale

gruden

December 18th, 2017 at 1:35 PM ^

Ren leading the First Order would turn it into something like Cobra from GI Joe (in a way already there).  For such a large war machine he's far to tempramental and combustable to be trusted to lead it.  He's not as menacing or calculating as Darth Vader.  Kinda hard to take him seriously at this point.

xxxxNateDaGreat

December 17th, 2017 at 9:25 AM ^

Despite some really good parts, I overall really didn't like it, as a casual star wars fan. My best friend, a much bigger fan thought it was the second worst one, after phantom. My other best friend, a lifelong Star Wars ultra fan, doesn't know how he feels about it yet, other than it wasn't amazing. He's still trying to figure out whether the good outweighs the bad.

The Pope

December 17th, 2017 at 9:36 AM ^

Most of my Star Wars friends are split on it. I loved it, as I think the franchise needed a movie like this.

Also, Revenge of the Sith is the worst Star Wars movie. It’s supposed to be a huge moment in the franchise, and all it shows is that Anakin is whiny bitch who murders children, not the badass he is supposed to be. Kylo Ren is proving to be the type of Anakin the story needed all along.

Yost Ghost

December 18th, 2017 at 9:22 AM ^

...Lucas had great vision creating Star Wars but is not a details guy. He should have stopped after the original film. Once he saw what Kershner/Kasdan did with Episode V (ESB). He should have realized he's never going to touch that. He subbornly writes and directs every other movie, gets mediocre reviews and yet just keeps going. 

HAIL-YEA

December 17th, 2017 at 2:53 PM ^

I might be just different on this but I will take 1,2, or 3 over this anyday. Those were bad takes on a story that was already written, but I still went away with hope for the future. This movie killed star wars for me and I don't mean that as hyperbole. I have zero interest in the story going foward, my interest died with Luke. I think all these shitty directors are hopping on the Game of Thrones bandwagon and killing off important characters like its going to be cool and edgy. The problem is the damage done here is permanent, there is no going back on it.

MichiganTeacher

December 17th, 2017 at 4:27 PM ^

This is what is driving the hate. A great many people, it turns out, didn't care as much about getting a good movie as they did about getting their Star Wars fantasy universe expanded. That's fine, but it doesn't mean this is a bad movie. It wasn't. It was great, just not the universe-expanding fan service that many wanted.

And about Luke dying, I mean come on, he didn't die anymore than Yoda did. That was him walking in the sky at the end, you know that, right? That comet that was sparking the rebellion? That is why Luke had to discorporate, so he could walk in everyone's sky and inspire the kids the same way the Star Wars saga has inspired us. That was genius storytelling. Recognize!

HAIL-YEA

December 17th, 2017 at 5:05 PM ^

fan service did we want? You know epsode vii TFA happened right? They set up this climactic moment of Rey finding Luke and presenting him his old light saber that he lost when Vader cut off his hand. Maz got it somehow( a story for another time that turned in to fuck you just go with it) and Luke just tosses it off the cliff. They build up Snoke in to some important villain in episode vii, what was he TLJ? What you blow off as fan service are serious inconsistencies with the plot. 

Luke was supposed to be at the first jedi temple ever created for some reason and he constructed a map for people to find him that was a big deal in TFA. IN TLJ instead he is there to die and doesn't care about anything anymore, they just completely ignored so many things from TFA it was absurd. 

"The comet that was sparking the rebellion" How many times can you watch an underpowered rebellion exploit some stupid weakness in an overpowerd empire force and still call it genius storytelling? Honestly, I don't even think most people that like the movie would dare call it genius storytelling, you are pretty out there on that one.

Reader71

December 17th, 2017 at 5:21 PM ^

If you didn’t like those things, you didn’t like the OT. Snoke is the Emperor. Not a mysterious character, barely a character at all. Then gets killed by his apprentice, going out like a sissy.

Luke not wanting to train Rey. Same as Yoda not wanting to train Luke, the Councel not wanting to train Anikin.

I agree with you that it isn’t genius storytelling — but neither was any of Star Wars. It’s a popcorn franchise for kids with some great visuals and very basic, archetypal storytelling. Almost everything everyone knows about Star Wars comes from the expanded universe. The movies were never very deep, and I’d argue never very good at all.

But this one is fine, just like the rest, and it at least offers some originality and opens the doors for the possibilities for the franchise.

gruden

December 18th, 2017 at 1:53 PM ^

There are some interesting parallels to Luke and Yoda, but Yoda's objections were based on both Jedi protocol and a concern for Luke's ability to see it through. 

In the new movie, Luke was simply being a disillusioned old crank, didn't really matter who showed up asking to be trained.  That was the biggest disappointment for me.  Some of us grew up on Star Wars and Luke, Han Solo and Leia were a big deal.  I understand this trilogy is about a passing of the baton to a new generation, but the way they've treated the old generatoin is pretty shitty, Luke most of all.

MichiganTeacher

December 17th, 2017 at 6:45 PM ^

I don't think they set up what you think they set up. They even said so, right? Luke: "This is not going to go the way you think."

The fan service that many people wanted is stated here in this thread and in your own post. People wanted Rey giving the light saber to Luke to be a meaningful climax of some sort. They wanted Luke to be a badass (Harlick below said he's been waiting 30 years for it; I suppose he missed Luke in RotJ destroying Vader). They wanted a light saber duel. They wanted Maz's story, Snoke's story, Rey's parents' story, the Knights of Ren's story. 

That's fine. But it turns out the story wasn't about Maz, or Snoke, or Rey, or the Knights of Ren. It also wasn't about old Luke. It was about Luke and who he became after Vader's grandson failed Luke just like Vader failed Kenobi, slaughtering children in Luke's care and destroying everything Luke worked for. And it was about Rey, who might actually be the Last Jedi.

Ignoring Snoke et al. isn't a plot inconsistency. It's just a storytelling choice.

 

 

bacon1431

December 17th, 2017 at 4:56 PM ^

You keep dismissing every criticism of the movie without making any valid points, passing them off as “hipsterism” or “fanboys”. Lots of people didn’t like the movie. And that’s ok. I don’t think it was a great movie. Mostly because it lacks significant character developmemt outside of one character and it seems to be very lazy from a storytelling point.

MichiganTeacher

December 17th, 2017 at 6:53 PM ^

Yeah, I was wrong about the hipsterism. I didn't get what was going on right away. I mean, I think there's some of that, but my initial take Thursday night was that that was all it was. I had no idea that people would actually value the expanded universe over the movie quality.

But to call it lazy storytelling means you missed a lot. Maybe you didn't like it, but there's no way it was lazy. It is difficult to craft literature so intricately. The symbolism, dualism and parallels, foreshadowing, themes, motifs, diction, all show obvious hard work and thought. 

bacon1431

December 17th, 2017 at 6:55 PM ^

I don’t think it’s solely valuing the expanded universe. People just want a world in a series that makes sense and is consistent. The new trilogy doesn’t really jive with the previous trilogies. People also flipped their shit in Episode I when midichlorians were introduced because it wasn’t mentioned at all in the OT.

ScooterTooter

December 18th, 2017 at 3:04 PM ^

I think Reader71 has it right above: Its fine. Its entertaining (and has sequences that are too long or pointless or stretch belief). It's got some funny moments (and some cringe-inducing ones). Its got a few good performances (and quite a few mediocre to bad performances). 

But its just not a great film. Its a summer time blockbuster. A money grab. Its Jurassic World (there's no coincidence the first preview that I was was for another Jurassic Park movie). So the question is why do critics feel the need to beat everyone over the head with the idea that its some sort of masterpiece? 

gruden

December 18th, 2017 at 2:00 PM ^

I personally didn't expect Luke, Han and Leia to survive the trilogy, and obviously they won't.  Han and Luke especially were so diminished, they didn't progress as characters in the interim, and even regressed.  Leia progressed somewhat, but she might be the beneficiary of a feministic attitude of the story author.

LSAClassOf2000

December 17th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^

I am not really a Star Wars person, but I will say that Revenge Of The Sith's largest and most glaring defect, in my opinion, was the rush at the end to tie it into A New Hope. It was almost as if the writers got to the final ten pages of the script and shouted "SHIT!" because was an entire section of the story outline that still hadn't been addressed. 

Attack Of The Clones, on the other hand, is a defect basically from start to finish. 

PopeLando

December 17th, 2017 at 11:13 AM ^

I agree, but I have Revenge and Phantom above Clones for the following reasons:

Revenge: watching Anakin kill the kids was dark, battle sequences were head and shoulders above the other two prequels, least amount of Jar Jar.

Phantom: Darth Maul. And Liam Neeson.

I have Last Jedi above Force Awakens, but that puts both solidly in the "it wasn't good" category.

gruden

December 18th, 2017 at 2:03 PM ^

There are certainly some parallels in there for modern times which most people don't seem to think much about.  But it was just too complicated and obtuse to follow.  Star Wars isn't built on the complex, but simply (and powerful) archetypes and themes.  Lucas over-thought that one.

btn

December 17th, 2017 at 5:42 PM ^

Revenge of the Sith had two of the key moments in the entire saga that it had to present:

The turning of Anakin to the Dark Side

Vader in his suit for the first time.

 

Through poor acting, poor writing, poor direction, etc. it fucked both of them up so they were almost a joke.  It may be the worst movie of them all because of that.

Yost Ghost

December 18th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^

Hard to argue with your first point. Anakin goes from loyal Jedi Knight to Dark Lord because he's upset at being denied the title of Jedi Master and because Mace Windu wanted to kill Palpatine/Sidious, which Anakin admitted to wanting to do himself just a few scenes earlier.

 

victors2000

December 17th, 2017 at 3:40 PM ^

when he said, "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That's the only way to become what you are meant to be."

I think that is the take home message; you can't look back to the past, let it go and look forward. Let this movie, and the ones that follow, stand on their own. I like it more if I see it as a new beginning versus a continuation.

I did think it was pretty stupid for the Admiral to stand there and watch half the transports get blown up before she decided to sacrifice the ship; seems like that should have been the plan from the get go.

HarleyMarlboro

December 17th, 2017 at 9:25 AM ^

I know Carrie Fisher died after filming, but I with they could’ve figured out a way to edit it so Leia died in the movie. Especially after they’ve said they won’t CGI her, it’s hard to see where they go with Episode 9. I hope it’s not just putting in the crawl, “and BTW Leia died.”

icegoalie1

December 17th, 2017 at 9:43 AM ^

Not a total Star Wars geek but I have seen all the movies. I saw it opening night Thursday with my son and left the theater a little confused and unimpressed overall. After seeing it a second time with my daughter and wife I picked up on some of the subtleties and underlaying plot lines that make it good storytelling IMO. Still too many questions and holes not addressed in it for me to rank it up there with any of the first three films but still a lot of fun.

My guess is that Disney may still leave a lot of questions in the next film too and just keep circling back with Rogue One type films to answer some of the questions, create more questions and continue to clean out our wallets.

TrueMaize

December 17th, 2017 at 10:21 AM ^

Check out MoviePass.com, unlimited movies for $10 a month at most theaters. Down side is you have to wait a week or so before passes are accepted. So no midnight releases, but you can’t beat $10 for all the movies you want. I’ve gone to see movies I would not normally see, because why not? Pretty cool, check it out