OT: Jourdan Lewis commenting on fighting in hockey

Submitted by Dennis on
Jourdan Lewis recently tweeted Check out @JourdanJD’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JourdanJD/status/950430102172655617?s=09 about fighting in hockey, implying that fighting is only allowed in hockey because it's a predominantly white-athlete sport... regardless of how incorrect his assumptions are, what are your thoughts on fighting in hockey? IMO, enforcers are essential to slowing the game down and preventing nasty injuries. If you come at Gretzky, Semenko is gonna beat your ass!

Fishbulb

January 8th, 2018 at 8:33 PM ^

Anyone else think it’s stupid that football gets all the grief for CTE (and I’m not downplaying CTE or brain injuries), yet it’s acceptable to punch a helmet-less guy in the face and head in hockey? Moreover, the very purpose of boxing is to shock/injure an opponent’s brain so he will fall and be physically and cognitively unable to stand?

TNWolverine

January 8th, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^

I watched a documentary on Netflix called Ice Gaurdians. They mentioned research stating that 90% of concussions in hockey were from getting checked in to the boards, etc. Only 10% from fighting. They think the game is more dangerous without the enforcers. Good documentary.

ThWard

January 8th, 2018 at 8:56 PM ^

Was mgoboard’s takes on JD’s take on hockey fighting.



Reminder: it’s cool to not have an opinion on some things, people. Refreshing even.

MGoCali

January 8th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^

If hockey became a predominantly African American sport like basketball or football did over the decades, then fighting would be viewed negatively in this alternative hockey (even in the face of the historical truth that fighting was part of the sport) since the primarily white viewers would see it as a manifestation of their (racially stereotyped) aggressive behavior because it is inherent in many non-critical thinking corners of the populous to think that aggression is a trait of black men. Furthermore, that aggression is viewed as a negative for black people, yet in the reality of white hockey, it is viewed as a positive (note the tone of most of the above comments regarding fighting). White fighters are referred to as “enforcers” while it is likely that black fighters would be referred to as “thugs” and you are lying to yourself if you don’t think that’s true.

Bando Calrissian

January 8th, 2018 at 9:50 PM ^

Agree on all counts, and it's a good articulation of the argument.

The other side of the coin is that it's been a part of the sport since the beginning. It's a sport that's developed in a certain way for over a century, and fighting is a part of that. I don't think you're wrong, and I don't think Lewis is wrong at face value, but it's a completely ahistorical, arguably red herring argument about hockey as a sport.

Mr. Yost

January 8th, 2018 at 11:50 PM ^

Exactly.

The NBA changed its dress code because players were DRESSING like "THUGS"...not fighting, what they were wearing. The NHL has allowed guys to beat each others brains in forever.

Again, I'm not picking a side, I'm just saying I see the point. That's what some of you can't do...you can see the point without agreeing with it.

It's clear as day where the man is coming from.

kehnonymous

January 8th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^

I'm not sure he's 100% wrong. 

There is a differing standard - outside of outright goonery like Claude Lemieux, hockey fights are an everyday occurence that rarely result in serious fines for either party.  There are many reasons for this - the amount of padding that's worn, the history of the game, etc.  Racial disparity may not be the main one, but like it or not it is inimical to our cultural lenses so it's still present as a factor, however small.

No one is saying you're racist if you like hockey and dislike b-ball, but the fact is that a scrum in the NHL would likely elicit gleeful water-cooler chatter whereas a fight in the NFL or NBA might well trigger negative reactions from the same crowd that then says this is why they don't take their kids to the games anymore. 

JD might not be right about hockey but I can see where he's coming from as a professional athlete who's also a black guy.  

Bando Calrissian

January 8th, 2018 at 10:17 PM ^

It would bring out a different reaction in the NBA because it's not actually an integral part of how the sport is played. Fighting has always existed in hockey and is seen as an integral part of the game. It has not existed and is not seen as an integral part of the game of basketball. A fight under the basket stands out because it's abnormal.

Blumami

January 8th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^

As someone who has now played hockey into his 50’s, I’ve always believed that fighting in hockey — at all levels from the pros to the beer leagues — is necessary because the players (combatants) all carry weapons (sticks). If you are not responsible with your stick, you are going to get your ass kicked — if not by me, then by my enforcer buddy.

bacon

January 8th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^

^^^ This. What gets you in trouble in hockey is not knowing how to control your stick or taking cheap shots. If not for that, no need for a fight.  In the pros there are two types of fights: professional fights and fights due to cheap shots. the second type are the policing type that people mentioned (protecting the star) and it's to prevent cheap shots, not legit hits.

The second type is the professional fighters putting on a show to get their teams riled up. These guys fought each other and rarely got seriously hurt. This type of fighting is way down in my opinion in today's hockey game because the league has tried to get rid of the guys who were primarily fighters and they really have no place in the game today. Opening up the game has made it difficult for pure fighters to play in the NHL. If you can't skate and contribute, there's no real place for you these days. There are a few guys around still, but they're rare. John Scott could barely skate and was only out there to fight. Not much point unless both teams have a guy like this.

Ghost of Fritz…

January 9th, 2018 at 7:38 AM ^

1.  Why can't NHL refs just enforce against cheap shots?  Seems that all other major pro hockey leagues around the world do it this way.

2.  NFL players are fully padded, and can do just as much damage with cheap shots as NHL players can do.   Yet no culture of enforcing against cheap shots (which have always been there) with fights ever emerged.   Seems that it has been enforced with 15 yard penalties, and in addition (more recently) targeting ejections. 

 

 

bacon

January 9th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^

Honestly, I think it’s a cultural thing. Traditionally the players were defined by toughness over skill and part of that was fighting and intimidation. The skilled players were there back in the day, but there weren’t that many of them. Watching hockey from 30 years ago, it’s shocking how bad many of them are at skating. They were tough though. They’d play without helmets and block shots, get stitched up on the bench, lose teeth. Back then, fighting was a skill that could get you a spot on a team. Crazy if you think about it. Today’s game is totally different, and fighting is a remnant of that time. Football never had fighting.

wlubd

January 9th, 2018 at 7:02 AM ^

I understand the stick argument but also think that fighting persists in hockey because the penalties for it aren't sufficient to dissuade people from doing it. Pros? 5-minute penalty. Beer league? Depends on the situation. I've seen guys banned from leagues/arenas and guys dressing in the next game.

I'm one of those people that thinks at least at a pro level all you need to do is ban it and the game will improve dramatically. Maybe you lose fans to a degree but honestly I would trade away any fans solely there for fighting in 2018. It's the beer leagues that are a problem. Guys flat out don't care and the refs aren't going to be stepping in to break up fights. Getting fighting out of that culture is a problem.

Catchafire

January 8th, 2018 at 9:12 PM ^

Funny seeing most of you justify fighting in hokey... Fighting in any sport leads to benefits of sorts, but it is only acceptable in nhl and it is easy to see why JD said what he did...

JWG Wolverine

January 8th, 2018 at 9:16 PM ^

Fighting in hockey is only stupid when it doesn't mean anything. The problem is, hockey fights have decreased in long-term meaning since they were awesome in the 90s and earlier with fights like the Wings and Avs used to have.

Turtle Day wasn't just entertaining because of the physical fight itself, but because it was a rivalry in which a player on one team crossed a line and the other team wanted to unleash payback in front of their home crowd. That was an known and satisfying sports history that was taking place right in front of us, and that's why they live on through YouTube.

Fighting now is mostly stupid and shouldn't really even happen as often as it does anymore because it generally doesn't have that exciting storyline. The only thing that really ever comes close is when the Capitals and Penguins brawl. Even the Hawks/Wings rivalry has died down because of dumb realignment (Thanks Gary Bettman).

Fighting should stay a hockey thing. There is a reason it was kept in hockey and not in other sports like football and basketball. I don't see racial reasons behind this (people who make these rules could have them, but I don't see them). I love Jourdan Lewis, but have to disagree with him. Fighting is allowed in hockey because it just works with the flow of the game a lot better than other sports, basketball players are unprotected, and football is violent enough as is. Also, as another poster said, you are holding a weapon in hockey, and you better have to pay for it if you use it violently.

Just my $0.02.

PeteM

January 8th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^

I haven't thought about this long enough to have anything useful to add about the racial issues, but I'll say that I'm one of the perhaps minority hockey fans who thinks that fighting is overrated.  An occasional epochal fight like Lemieux-McCarty is one thing, but in general I just feel like it slows the game down.  I will say that today's game is much better than the 1970s when fighting was pro forma, and expected.

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

January 8th, 2018 at 9:28 PM ^

lacrosse, tennis, swimming or golf - all predominantly white sports.

It would probably make those more enjoyable to watch, especially if women's tennis allowed fisticuffs.

Lionsfan

January 8th, 2018 at 10:47 PM ^

So I definitely think that JD's initial point is a bit ridiculous. Hockey being a majority white sport isn't *the* reason there's fighting allowed in hockey, as some of the commentators here have been all to point out.

However, I think some people here are being very ostrich-like* with regards to racial bias and media coverage.

There's definitely a racial bias in the way we look at black and white athletes and aggression. An NBA player cheapshots someone, he's labeled a thug. Todd Bertuzzi breaks a guys next, and he maintains another 10 years in the NHL.

Another example is that both the NBA and NHL have had incidents where players entered the stands and engaged physically with fans.

In the NBA, it's the Malice at the Palace, and players involved received suspensions of season-ending, 30, 15, 6, 5, and 1 game for 4 players. Some of the players were even charged with assault and battery. Newspapers writing retrospectives about it have headlines like "An Oral History of the Scariest Moment in NBA History"

In the NHL, it's just the shoe incident, and the players involved received suspensions of 8, 6, and 6 games. No assault/battery charges, and when the New York Times writes about it 30 years later, you get the headline, "Over the Glass, and Into Hockey Lore". Hell Mike Milbury has gotten a GM position, and has been a mainstay TV analyst for almost a decade now.

 

*yes I know that's just a myth

NashvilleBLUE

January 9th, 2018 at 5:37 AM ^

Well, I guess we’re all entitled to our opinions, even when they don’t make any sense.

Kyrie thinks the world is flat, Jourdan thinks hockey only allows fighting because most of the players are white. To each their own, I suppose.