OT John Kuester fired as Pistons Coach

Submitted by goblue418 on June 5th, 2011 at 3:28 PM

Per http://twitter.com/#!/vgoodwill

 

#Pistons coach John kuester fired today

 

Dumars: “Decisions like this are difficult to make. I want to thank John for his hard work and dedication to the organization over 
the last two years, however, at this time we have decided to make a change.”

Comments

turtleboy

June 5th, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^

the coach/players never openly criticized each other even when missing games. They asked Rip point blank and he brushed it off and said it was a misunderstanding. Kuester simply said that players who make the team practice get the nod at starting. Even though things were ugly I was surprised to see how they kept it clean, and dealt with it in house instead of "motivating a player by bashing him in the press" like Zen-master-Phil.

bronxblue

June 5th, 2011 at 3:38 PM ^

Not a surprise. He'll probably wind up in LA and reunite with Brown, which is probably a better fit. Always felt like an assistant coach to me anyway.
<br>Wish him luck. Joe D has to get a better fit for this team, preferably someone with a defensive philosophy and/or offensive approach not predicated on having Lebron James around.

jshclhn

June 5th, 2011 at 5:42 PM ^

I don't think they should be looking to get a coach that fits this team.  This team is short on building blocks for the future and has too many overpaid role players.  Rip is on the decline, and I have a hard timing seeing anyone making an All-Star team anytime soon.

I would much rather have a coach for the future and start bringing in players to fit that guy's team then try to fit a coach to the underachieving team currently playing at the Palace.   

jmblue

June 5th, 2011 at 3:41 PM ^

He probably had to go, but at some point this revolving door has to stop.  Is Chuck Daly the last Piston coach to last more than three seasons?

Kal

June 5th, 2011 at 5:51 PM ^

While I love Larry Brown and what he did with the team, I was very sad when we let Carlisle go. He is a great coach, and his teams always have wonderful chemistry together.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^

Yep.  and Stuckey's had three coaches during his four NBA seasons.  I am by no means a Stuckey fanboy, or even a Stuckey apologist, but I'm willing to delay his condemnation until he has a) a defined role, b) a competent coach, and c) minutes.  His development has clearly been stunted, but he isn't close to a finished product.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 11:58 PM ^

Joe was instructed to go for cheap hires.  We had gone through so many coaches so quickly that we were paying multiple coaches simultaneously.  I believe in Kuester's first season we were still putting up cash for Flip Saunders and Michael Curry. 

gajensen

June 6th, 2011 at 1:44 AM ^

Rick Carlisle was fired because Bill Davidson had beef with him.  Not Joe's fault.
Larry Brown was fired because he publicly flirted with other franchises.  Brown's fault.  He was a HOF coach that hasn't had success since his stop with the Pistons.
Flip Saunders averaged 59 wins when with the Pistons.  The vet players tuned him out.  I suppose you will blame Dumars for acquiring those players?  However, Chauncey was promptly moved, Rasheed and McDyess weren't brought back, and Ben was already gone.  Hm...

Anybody could have told you that there were better coaching options out there than Michael Curry and John Kuester.  You knew it, I knew it, Joe knew it.  The difference was, he wasn't allowed to go ahead and hire the #1 prospect. 

BRCE

June 6th, 2011 at 2:08 AM ^

You know what you are getting with Larry Brown. He flirted with other jobs his whole career. He won a title here, so I ultimately have nothing bad to say about his hiring nor the firing of the man who preceded him.

HOWEVA, Saunders was a mistake. Many saw the tension between him and the vets on the horizon the day he was hired. To have a guy who had coached in the NBA for a while, only gone deep in the playoffs once (losing in the WCF) and ask him to lead a core of players who had JUST won a title and almost won another - that just won't work in the NBA. If Joe couldn't have hired an accomplished NBA coach he should have gotten a strong candidate from the college ranks who had no track record of NBA failings (Izzo? Maybe?) or someone with a personality the players would respect instead of an insecure pushover like Flip (such as my choice at the time, Nate McMillan).

You can excuse the Curry and Kuester hirings behind your theory that they were not the #1 guys on his list, but that does not mean they had to be the full-on horror show trainwrecks that they both turned out to be.

 

 

 

plaidflannel

June 5th, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^

I don't agree.  Give Rasheed Wallace to Rick Carlisle in the playoffs, and he would have won the championship too.  Carlisle probably would have won the championship again in 2005, instead of flirting with Cleveland during the playoffs like Larry Brown did.

Also, please use sentences.  I had to read your comment three times to understand what you were saying.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 4:05 PM ^

Agreed.  Bringing in Bill Laimbeer parallels giving the UM job to Brady Hoke. He's a Piston through and through, and the players will respect him for his passion about the team and the sport.

As opposed to Kuester, who only played three professional seasons, Laimbeer has two championships and four all-star appearances to his name.  He coached the Shock to three titles, turning the group of girls into Bad Boys.  His work with Minnesota can't be discounted, as he has overseen Kevin Love lead the league in rebounds, Darko Milicic finish in the top 10 in blocks, and seen Michael Beasley completely shed the bust label (he's now averaging 19/6).

Kuester was a guard and could not develop Rodney Stuckey any further and mismanaged all three of Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, and Tracy McGrady.  I believe that Bill Laimbeer, who played alongside Isiah Thomas and Vinnie Johnson and Joe Dumars, will employ the three-guard lineup that Joe envisioned whilst developing our bigs (Jerebko, Villanueva, Monroe, and the rookie we hopefully draft).

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^

It's up to Cleveland/Minnesota to sweeten the pot.  Joe D wants to get players back.  I'm not against using the #8 pick of a weak draft to a) trade a malcontent, b) balance the roster, c) improve our cap situation in light of a CBA change...but if we could get Jonny Flynn or Anthony Randolph from Minny, or Ramon Sessions from Cleveland, I'd be thrilled with Joe playing hardball.

bronxblue

June 5th, 2011 at 5:26 PM ^

I'd take Flynn in a heart-beat and then move Stuckey to the 2, where he makes more sense.  I'm not sold on Sessions or Randolph, but letting Rip go and start over would be better than taking a bench guy at 8.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 5:36 PM ^

Yeah, I have no idea why Minnesota reached for Flynn at #6, watched him prove himself, and then cut 10 minutes out of his PT the next season.  He's a good player.

Sessions is a reasonably tall PG at 6'2" without shoes. PER36 minutes he puts up 18/7/4, better than Stuckey across the board.  He's not a sexy player by any means, but he quietly gets the job done.  He'd be a good complement to Stuckey and Gordon for the money.

Randolph is an extremely versatile player, spending time anywhere from SF to C.  He reminds me an awful lot of Chris Bosh, who would be my dream partner for Greg Monroe.  Here's his highlight vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z85vHk5cc98

I'd make the trade on draft day if Biyombo and Kanter were off the board.  Those are the only two reasonable targets I want out of this draft.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 6:36 PM ^

There were five teams worse than us in the EC last season.  The way I see it, we can only get better.  

The ideal situation for Rodney Stuckey is a combo guard off the bench with starters' minutes.
He has just as many weaknesses at SG as he does at PG.  He isn't a shooting threat and he hasn't been able to finish consistently at the rim when guarded by taller players.

I would be delighted to land Harrison Barnes.  Austin Daye isn't a starter in this league.

 

bronxblue

June 5th, 2011 at 5:28 PM ^

I wasn't a huge fan of his coaching style, but I have to agree that he'd be an upgrade over a retread and would help bring an identity to the team.  This team has some parts that could be successful, but there was little real leadership under Kuester and Laimbeer exudes that.  Would be interesting.

Lac55

June 5th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

If Joe D is going to make up for recent bad decisions, it starts now. Due some serious homework & research and bring us a winner.

M-Wolverine

June 5th, 2011 at 10:06 PM ^

And it probably won't happen...but how funny would it be to lose the two top thorns in the side, Tressel and Izzo, in s couple of months?
<br>
<br>I would start hanging out around Schembechler Hall's bathrooms to really start looking for gold.

bacon1431

June 5th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^

This next hire is pretty important IMO. I'd like to see some continuity in this organization. Although not sure what a coach can do with all the combo guards on the roster.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 5:28 PM ^

We're in the middle of a golden age of point guards.  We have Derrick Rose, John Wall, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Dwyane Wade (spends about half his minutes at the 1), and many more to worry about in the Eastern Conference alone.  These are tall, athletic players, and conveniently Joe is amassing similar talents.  

Both Stuckey and Terrico White are 6'5" in shoes and graded out as top 10 athletes in their drafts.  Ben Gordon can hold his own against SGs with his strength (12 bench reps) and wingspan (6'9").  Will Bynum graded out as the 2nd best athlete in his draft, and is useful against the speedier guards.  Hamilton, if he remains on the roster, is quite adept at defending smaller players with his height advantage.

I actually like what Joe has done in assembling our backcourt.  There are ways to get the most out of our big money players.  If Hamilton ever spent time at the SF position in small-ball lineups, there would be enough minutes for all.  Assuming no moves are made, a backcourt of

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/Hamilton/Stuckey
Hamilton/Daye/Jerebko

would get the job done.  It helps that three of our bigs, Monroe/Villanueva/Jerebko, do well on the perimeter and are playmakers relative to their positions.  

bacon1431

June 5th, 2011 at 8:30 PM ^

Yeah, those players did real well against the great PGs in the league this past year. And it's not like they're young and have potential either. The only one we haven't seen is White and I doubt he becomes more than a 6th man. Stuckey is one dimensional. Should be a combo guard off the bench for a good team, not a starting point guard. Gordon is a good 6th man. Hamilton is going to be shipped out, and even if he's not, I think he needs a good PG to help him out (which we don't have). I love Bynum as a backup PG, but he's never going to be a starter. Villenueva is garbage. Jump shooter, that's it. Love Jerebko and and Monroe. I think the core of the team should be Jerebko, Monroe, and Daye. Everybody else has a price and we should be willing to listen to offers.

I don't know how you think that the lineup you listed "would get the job done." It didn't last year. Or the year before. And won't this year.

gajensen

June 5th, 2011 at 10:07 PM ^

Stuckey's 25.  Gordon just turned 28.  White is 21.  Bynum is 28, but hasn't even played three season's worth of games yet.  The best indicator of age in the NBA is minutes played, and only Gordon has racked up a lot of minutes.

For all intents and purposes, they are young or just beginning their prime.  I'd agree that Gordon's potential is limited at this point (although I'd like to see him improve his ball-handling), but he doesn't need to be any more than he was with Chicago.  We haven't let him play his game or given him minutes, and that's on Kuester.

We never have ran with that lineup.  I'm advocating having Hamilton play half of his minutes at the SF position AND going uptempo with it.  Michael Curry used to go with small lineups (remember Tayshaun starting at PF?), but never increased the pace of the game (we were actually one of the slowest in the league).  Under Kuester, we were one of the worst rebounding teams in the league by every metric.  We weren't going to win games in the paint, and thus should have pushed the ball and given our best and highest paid players the chance to win some games for us.  Both Hamilton and Gordon were horribly marginalized, and that cost us games.

Daye wasn't a  bad #15 pick, but he's nothing special.  Best-case scenario he ends up a Rashard Lewis type, and I'm betting against him.  My ideal rotation has him as an 11th man utility player, backing up SG/SF/PF.

bacon1431

June 5th, 2011 at 10:44 PM ^

Stuckey is never going to be anything other than what he is right now. A big guard that can get to the hole, with a broken J and below average decision making. He should be the 6th man. But Gordon is a better 6th man cuz he can actually shoot. On an ideal team, they'd both be fulfilling a similar role and I'd rather have the more balanced option off the bench. We haven't even seen White play at all, so there's no way we can make judgment on him either way.

Hamilton can't hold up playing D at SF for extended periods of time. He can get away with his lack of strength at SG because of his length. At SF, he'd be overmatched IMO.

I've been pretty impressed with Daye when he's gotten playing time. I think he's going to have a big role on this team going forward. He's a good shooter and he can defend with his length.