OT-ish: Which pro sport has changed the most in the last 10-15 years?
OT-ish, Friday, bye improvement week, etc
I saw a stat that made me think of this the other day - the 2003 "Seven Seconds or Less" Phoenix Suns would play with the slowest pace of any team in today's NBA. They were crazy fast.
Each league has seen a major shift in the last 10-15 years, which is the greatest change? Why?
NFL - Passing explosion (mostly rule changes)
NHL - Speed & skill explosion (definitely post-lockout rule changes)
MLB - Reliever dominance/so many fewer balls in play (more analytics than rule changes?)
NBA - 3-point explosion
October 26th, 2018 at 11:22 AM ^
I used to love the NBA. It was basically the only pro sports league I had any interest in. But now that teams aren't allowed to play defense, it sucks.
Last time I saw a game in person was 2007. Don't think I'll be back anytime soon.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:23 AM ^
I view going to an NBA game like going to a baseball game. It's a fun experience, but the sport itself sucks.
October 26th, 2018 at 3:37 PM ^
Baseball doesn’t suck.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^
The old NBA (circa like 2004...and even more so circa 1990) was kinda brutal to watch. Feels like one of those things people always remember more fondly, but if you actually had to watch it now you'd turn it off. Especially if it was a random mid-season game.
Now? Tons of offense, freak athletes are allowed to be even more freakish, and 3-pointers are fun. Its one of the few sports I'd actually pay to go see live. Especially for a lower bowl seat closer to the court. Just a much different experience up close. Lower bowl in hockey is pretty great too.
Football might be the last one I'd pick to pay for. Its just a much better experience on TV. Even for expensive seats, it still kinda sucks because you can't see what happening on most of the field.
Baseball is still boring as hell and has no chance of holding my attention span, but tickets are cheap, its some fresh air and some cold beers. If someone asked if I wanted to see a random mid-season game on a nice day, if I can snag a ticket for $20-25, I'm probably in.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^
When those freak athletes can learn to dribble the ball without traveling while progressing to the hoop then I will watch again. The lack of officiating has allowed the skill level in the NBA to drop considerably.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
Holy shit are you dumb.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
Sure because you can't easily observe those players taking two to three steps without a dribble in their drive.
I will gladly take the negs as any fool can carry a basketball.
Oh I will see your dumb and call you an idiot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjM4z-M7gcA
October 27th, 2018 at 4:36 PM ^
That video is fucking awesome/awful to watch
October 26th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^
I really dislike people who can't disagree without throwing BS insults like they're in middle school.
October 26th, 2018 at 3:53 PM ^
This. Carrying and travelling are NEVER called. Also, the constant stream of defensive fouls on every offensive possession is horrific. Every remotely contested layup or dunk attempt is a foul, regardless if it actually is or not. NBA refs are horrendous, lazy and outright bad at their jobs. And all at the leagues behest.
Either call the game according to the rules or change the rules if you don't want the players to have to abide by them
October 26th, 2018 at 11:53 AM ^
I think you'd enjoy it a lot more if the Pistons were good. I'm not into it at the moment for that reason, but the playoff games I've watched in recent years have been objectively really entertaining.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
Fair point. I'm a fair weather fan when it comes to basketball.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:28 PM ^
I hear ya. Pro sports barely exist for me at the moment with all the local teams sucking.
October 26th, 2018 at 2:57 PM ^
They started strong last year too (or was that two years ago?). I'm not a believer. I see them finishing in 7th place in the East, losing in the first round and getting a "meh" draft pick.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
This is the most bizarre take I've read in a while.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
I must be the exact opposite because I love the NBA right now. The last few seasons have been much more interesting to me and fun to watch and I am not quite sure why. I think I just like watching some players play, like Kevin Durant, Porzingis, Bradley Beal, Kawhi, etc. It's similar to how I used to just love watching the Colts and Pats in the NFL because their QBs were/are just exciting.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:51 PM ^
I used to watch every PIstons game until about 2007/8 as well. Non-coincidently, that's when the B10 network started and it became reasonable to watch almost every Michigan basketball game.
Last NBA game I went to in person was because my dad had tickets to a suite at the Palace. Agreed to go to the game not knowing it would be on the day Michigan played Kansas in the sweet 16... Luckily they had TVs I could watch the game, with free food and booze. No idea who the Piston's played, never watched a minute of that game lol
October 26th, 2018 at 1:50 PM ^
Basketball from 1994-2013 became a rock fight more as a result of pace than a spike in good defense. Pace was under 93 possessions per 48 minutes all 20 of those seasons. It was ugly. Particularly in the post-Jordan stretch from 1998-2004 when offensive efficiency was under 105 points per 100 possessions. Eyeballs drifted away, and the league was in a bit of jeopardy.
The real glory days of the NBA were the 80s, where Pace hovered above 100 and ORating was consistently above 105. The reason for this year's points explosion is the fastest pace in 30 years plus the added efficiency of more 3s attempted.
I completely understand not watching NBA basketball due to not having emotional ties to a team. There are too many games. The regular season is a grind. Some franchises have little to no hope. Not watching because the product is worse than it once was is just a bad take.
Pace is bad? Who'd rather watch plodding power forwards like Zach Randolph in the half court over the artistry of LeBron James with open court on the fastbreak? Too many 3s? NBA teams should 3s on about 35% of FGA. John Beilein teams have been as high as 45% of attempted shots. Honestly, the NBA is like fast-paced Beilein-ball. Low OREB, low TO% (on pace for the lowest ever), efficient shot selection... What is bad about that?
October 26th, 2018 at 5:15 PM ^
One guy holding the ball on one half of the court waiting to beat his guy, while eight other people stand on the other half watching? No thanks.
October 26th, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^
Thanks for confirming that you haven't watched an NBA game in 10 years
October 26th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^
I grew up a college football and NFL fan. I loved them both and was glad I never had to choose. The NFL changed so much. It is a poorly polished turd at this point and now I use my Sundays for homework, grocery shopping, and hitting the gym. I haven't missed it really one bit.
NHL and NBA changed for the better, both are pretty fun to watch.
MLB never really changes.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:35 AM ^
The thing that kills me about the NFL is the lack of strategic diversity. Every team (seems to, and I'm MGoBlog Football Knowledgeable) runs the same plays, has the same goals, and most games seem to be coin flips. There's some interesting stuff out there, but no Georgia Tech's just doing crazy stuff. The Wildcat was a rare exception to this in my mind.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
That's why it's the nfl. Georgia tech style offenses don't work at that level,there's top much athleticism. You're also incorrect on nfl offenses look at what the pats have been doing for over a decade. Watch the chiefs and pat mahomes all kinds of fun offenses in the nfl.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^
Are the offenses really that fun and innovative or did the NFL finally neuter defenses enough that the slightest bit of creativity is borderline unstoppable?
October 26th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^
Quidditch...ever since they grounded the brooms so they can't fly anymore, it's just weirdos running around with sticks between their legs.
Second place would be NHL....taking fighting out of the game (I'm old school) has ruined it. I miss the good old days when the guys could have some rough stuff, sit for 5 and go out for a beer afterwards with no hard feelings.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^
I was right there with you, I loved hockey fights as a thing. But when 3 enforcers committed suicide the same summer I had to change my tune. The players got bigger, stronger, and trained with boxers. It wasn't just the two biggest guys on a team brawling anymore.
As a goalie, I lament that at 5'11" I was already "too small" to play D1, not that I was good enough to. #TinyJesus forever.
October 26th, 2018 at 2:17 PM ^
As a former goalie who played stand-up style, I'm a little saddened by the death of that style, in favor of the butterfly.
I feel like modern goalies are great at playing deflections along the ice, but are not as good at defending against high shots, wrap-arounds, or playing angles correctly.
October 27th, 2018 at 12:35 AM ^
Wait, are you calling the NFL quidditch?
Arguments for:
"Guys running around with sticks between their legs."
"Ever since they grounded the brooms." (Defense being brooms (they lead to clean sheets)) and the rules changing)
Arguments against:
The NFL isn't that ba. . oh shit, he's talking about the NFL here(!!!)
October 27th, 2018 at 12:36 AM ^
Wait, are you calling the NFL quidditch?
Arguments for:
"Guys running around with sticks between their legs."
"Ever since they grounded the brooms." (Defense being brooms (they lead to clean sheets)) and the rules changing)
Arguments against:
The NFL isn't that ba. . oh shit, he's talking about the NFL here(!!!)
October 26th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^
I think the NBA has changed the most. Watch a game from the early 2000's and its like you're watching a different sport. New rules have made guarding dudes like Durant, Lebron, Harden, etc impossible.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^
This. The NBA is a different sport from what it was 15 years ago. Those Pistons teams would get buried in today’s NBA, and that is too bad.
Sports are less fun when the defenses are not allowed to compete. NBA, NHL, and NFL have all changed for the worse, IMO.
Never liked the MLB and I’m not sure baseball is fixable for me.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
I'm not really much of a pro basketball fan, but I'm old enough to have seen the changes over the years. One thing I notice is the role of the "big man" center is nowhere near what it was before. I wonder if a guy like Shaq would be a top draft pick in today's game. I tend to think not.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^
There's always a dozen or so super talented guards and wing players you can find every draft. but a guy like Shaq would still be a top pick because very tall super athletic big people are still really rare and its something you just can't teach. So he'd still go top 5 just because he's a rare talent.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^
To your point, there were many comparisons of Deandre Ayton to Shaq pre-draft and he went #1 overall this year
October 26th, 2018 at 1:33 PM ^
Again, not a big NBA fan, so I'm just asking questions out of curiosity.
Googling around, I found some 2017 articles talking about the role of center in the NBA. They spoke of how the position is evolving, with centers being not just rim-protectors in the paint, but having a wider defensive role. Googling further, some opinions offered that Shaq was an outstanding rim protector, but less good at other defensive roles.
Which makes me wonder if big-man players like Deandre Ayton -- who went to UofA, in Tucson, which is where I live -- are still seen as valuable because they're more than just big men in the paint?
OT - I once saw Manute Bol play ... it was one of only two NBA games I've ever attended. That dude was tall and skinny. He also didn't hustle much: my memory of that game was he jogged back and forth.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
It's not that the rules have made it impossible to play defense (they have legalized the zone, after all) but that the 3-pointer has become fully weaponized. It took a few decades for this to happen. And teams have figured out that you don't really need two big clumsy guys playing at the same time.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
Yeah once people started to figure out the value of a shot and learned shooting threes -- even at a lower percentage -- is smarter than shooting 2s, it changed pretty quick. 4 for 10 on threes is just as good as 6 for 10 on 2s.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
When you think about it, the Bad Boys were sort of an early precursor to this - Bill Laimbeer preferred to pick-and-pop instead of pick-and-roll. He mainly shot 18-footers, but occasionally threes. In this era he'd probably shoot 5-6 threes a night.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^
Some 2s. Not layups or dunks. Those are still the most valuable shot in the game. It's the mid-range 2s that have been phased out.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:39 AM ^
You mean this 88-80 game featuring 29 total 3 pointers wouldn't fly today?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406130DET.html
October 26th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
The stretch the Pistons had that season where they held a record 5 teams in a row under 70 is something that will never ever happen again. Its like one of those old-ass baseball records where a starting pitcher threw 40 complete games.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:42 AM ^
I would argue that LeBron would be more dominant in the 90’s when teams weren’t allowed to play zone. Now teams are able to bring an extra guy to try and deter drives to the rim. 80’s and 90’s defensive rules allowed much easier isolations.
This is is why non shooting wings are damn near unplayable these days, it completely handicaps an offense to have a guy that can be ignored
October 26th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
what rules? i know they have the semi circle under the rim for safety. but they got rid of the illegal defense about 10-15 years ago, so i would think it would be easier to guard them now than 20 years ago. hell, i remember the old isolation plays where 4 guys would stand off to the side and all 4 of their defenders had to go with them.
try guarding jordan or isiah thomas one on one with that much open space.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:38 AM ^
I'm not a basketball expert, but my inclination is to say the NBA. The Pistons-Lakers finals matchup in '04 looks nothing like what teams put on the floor nowadays. Bruising big men and defenders like Shaq and Ben Wallace have no place in today's NBA.
As Mad Hatter said, I can't really watch the NBA anymore. I watch Lebron and sometimes Russ because they're amazing, but even then I'm only really watching a few playoff games. Otherwise I'll catch the highlights.
College Basketball over NBA all day. I will watch two college teams I have no affiliation with before I turn on a Pistons game.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
Basketball in general has changed a lot - universal adoption of shot clock, and three point shot has dramatically decreased the need to have a dominant big man at center. Internationalization of the sport. Soccer is still number one world wide but in many places basketball is a popular second choice because ironically the bigger kids (liability in soccer to be too tall - end up as goalie or center backs) get to be the forwards and wings.
Tennis was changed by the Open Era - ending shamateurism, and the new compound non-wood larger head, graphite/carbon racquets has increased the controllable power for many players especially women. TThe dominance of two hand backhands. It allows players greater power and most importantly it allows them to hit the ball later, video training.
Widespread availability of video camcorders and smartphones mean most sporting events of any size or caliber will have a lot of video - not just the official coverage. Any a lot of amateur events will be covered - this makes it possible to see how some athletes were way back when they were just starting out.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:43 AM ^
You could make a case for soccer. While the game is essentially the same, the popularity has grown immensely compared to where it was 10-15 years ago.
Across NFL, NHL, and NBA scoring is up....in baseball (without steroids) scoring is down, and pitching has been better the last few years.
October 26th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
Soccer is really penetrating the Domestic Terrorists in Rape Vans demographic.
October 26th, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^
NBA now is all flash and drama. That sport has cashed in the most on social media and the embrace debate culture. It’s never about the regular season games it’s about Steph lighting up a team, LeBron in LA, Butler drama, Lavar Ball, etc. The product in my opinion is lacking. 140 points in regulation isn’t that exciting. I miss the back to the basket aspect. There are 6’6 centers now who are more effective in today’s league than a 7’ rim protector.
NFL has gotten out of hand with its passing rules. I have noticed that more RBs have found success it seems in recent years, but it’s another league where I believe the product is suffering.
NHL is much better. I still wish it had the popularity it did in the mid-90s. The NHL was legitimately a national sport, and it was awesome. TV rights have played a big role in decreased casual fandom of hockey.
MLB still is just too slow. I love baseball and this World Series has been great to watch. Starting these games well after 8 though is tough. It’s hard for people to want to stay up and watch it. The game hasn’t changed much and the past decade shift to analytics have made the actual product much better. 3 plus hour games though for a 5-2 game just are too much to follow on the regular.