OT- If you were Dombrowski do you try to trade for Roy Halladay?
We have heard that the Phillies, Dodgers, Angels, Red Sox and other teams are interested in acquiring Roy Halladay. If you were DD would you put together a package and make an attempt to acquire him? If so, who would you offer? A starting trio of Verlander, Jackson and Halladay would be pretty awesome.
I would offer Porcello, Larish, and others to start.
I don't think the Tigers have the kind of high-end prospects the Jays want to make this trade. If you are the Phillies, however, you HAVE TO make the move. Halliday is the best pitcher in baseball and would dominate the NL (see: CC Sabbathia last year, only better). Halladay on the Phils just about guarantees a return trip to the Series and would give you a hell of chance to beat the AL representative should that occur. The chance to repeat, in a city where championships have been few and far between... you make that trade, no hesitations. I don't care about your precious prospects. These GMs, unbelievable.
Yes. The Tigers are extremely thin, getting Halladay would require giving up far too much to even consider.
They want starter J.A. Happ, top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek and top outfielder prospect Dominic Brown.
Happ is only 26 years old and is pitching well (7-1, ERA of 2.97).
With the way their bullpen has been this year (Lidge has been a disaster), I think the Phillies would be better off getting a top reliever.
The Tigers do not have the prospects or the money to be able to make such a deal.
They have nothing they are willing to part with that the Blue Jays want. The Jays would most certainly ask for Porcello and there is no way the Tigers go for that.
We have enough starting pitching to win the division. We need some offense more than anything else. Only if Halladay becomes a .300 lefty bat am I interested.
Clayton Richard gets the start for the White Sox as they look to avoid a devastating sweep in the wake of Buerhles perfect game. National TV, Sunday Night Baseball, and a guy who tends to get easily rattled. I'm putting the over/under at 5.0 innings for the lefty, and I'm taking the under
But probably not. I would be interested in a 3 team trade involving him though, as they might like some of the tigers middle infielders, and you might be able to help facilitate a trade to the phillies or dodgers in exchange for a lefty bat.
Starting pitching is the team's biggest strength, and you would have to give up far too much to get him. I would much rather see us go for another bat, prefferably left-handed.
With what, exactly?
Halladay's contract expires at the end of the season so to me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I guess I'm just not a fan of mortgaging your future on a player who will probably only be around for a few months. Besides, as its already been pointed out, the Tigers need to address their offense first.
No it doesn't, the Phil... I mean Blue Jays have him for another year.
Matt hollidays contract contract is up at the end of the year, so I could see where some people might be confused, especially if they heard it on the radio. That's probably one reason the tigers didn't want to trade 2 of their top prospects, iorg and crosby, to get him. Of course it still would have been tough outbidding st. Louis, especially since they had wallace to bargain with.
Yeah you guys are right, I mixed up the two, but I'd still argue that the Tig's need to add another bat.
expires at the end of the 2010 season.
Halladay is not happening, however I would like to grab Marco Scutaro from the Jays...
The Tigers have a single trading chip of value - Porcello. The rest of their prospects are ranked by both Baseball Prospectus and Baseball America as "mediocre" to "bad". I'm not sure that they could piece together a package that would get Halladay and the 1.5 years left on his contract. Porcello and _______? If they can figure it out, they should do it, but I can't help but think they don't have a bid as good as what other teams can offer.
When BA reranks them, I'm sure casey crosby and mauricio robles will be thought of as more than mediocre. More than one person has said crosby was the big chip oakland wanted from detroit, and his success this year supports that idea. he wasn't rated well coming into the year because he had tommy john surgery the year he was drafted and he had very little to go off of, but he's a tall, projectable lefty with above average stuff, and he has torn up high a ball as a twenty year old. Robles is 20 or 21 as well, and is a lot shorter, but has put up ridiculous k/9 numbers, and is still pitching well after the call up to lakeland.
Yeah, Crosby could have value. I still think that you can't get a Halladay (or Holliday) without Porcello. Crosby could be a viable additional prospect in such a deal.
Porcello & Ryan Perry might give the Blue Jays alot to think about. FWIW, Dombrowski really REALLY like AA Eerie shortstop Cale Iorg. DD thinks that he can be an all star caliber player one day. According to Lynn Henning, there are people (scouts) within the organization who disagree with Dombrowski about that, though.
Cale Iorg is a 23-year old guy in AA (old for the level) who strikes out in 1/3 of his AB's, and has yet to hit over .240, or slug over .400 at any level. He's borderline worthless. If you like Scout evaluations, BA gives him, on a 100 point scale, an 89 for speed, a 68 for power (odd, since his career slugging % is .375), a 19 for contact, and a 24 for patience. The guy isn't looking good.
I agree that Iorg has been less than impressive. This really was supposed to be a big year for him in the minors as the Tigers brass was hoping he would be in the majors by next season. That obviously won't happen as Iorg has been terrible this year in Eerie. DD, however, seems to love the kid (I honestly don't know why, though). As far as his age goes, keep in mind that he spent two years out of baseball while on a Mormon mission. He was 21 when the Tigers drafted him in 2007.
Despite all available evidence, I refuse to give up on Iorg because of my dream to one day own a "Iorg" jersey.
It also took me three years to realize Mike Hessman probably wouldn't be the future of the Tigers offense, so my talent evaluation is not good.
The Tigers could get Halladay without giving up Porcello...if Illitch is willing to lose money.
The way to get Halladay at a discount is to give up our top prospects (who aren't great) and take the contract of Vernon Wells, which would give the Blue Jays the ability to spend more this offseason.
As there is zero chance of this happening, I will conclude with a brief comment to the Phillies:
"Don't be idiotic. Take the dal and get Halladay."
They don't want to give up happ along with the prospects toronto wants. They might need to bring in another team who has some middle infield chips, maybe the tigers, if they want to keep him and get halladay.
I don't think the Tigers are winning the World Series this year, so no I do not trade to get Halladay for 1 and a fraction years. We would probably have to part with Porcello and that would be BAD. Mortgage the future to win a World Series not a Division.
The playoffs are a complete crapshoot - the hot team wins, not the best one. The goal of any GM is to get to the playoffs, from there, it's largely luck.
Out of curiousity, how many teams in the AL playoffs could stack up to Halladay, Verlander, and Jackson in a short series?
Answer: 0.
But we can't get into the playoffs if we can't hit.
We make almost ever pitcher look like Cy Young.
But it would be cool to have that trio.
They're leading their division by 3 games "without hitting". What hitter do you want them to get? Who would they feasibly give up?
They are leading the division by 2 games.
I would want them to have gotton Holiday.
But it looks like the Tigers are interested in Josh Willingham, Cody Ross, and Freddy Sanchez. I do not know if that would help.
Trade Cale Iorg. Some of the Tigers scouts do not think he will be an all start SS like DD thinks. Then put in a lesser known player.
Cale Iorg would not, in 10 million and one years, get you Matt Holliday. He's a 23 year-old who had only made it to AA in 3 seasons. In his 3 years in the minors, he's hit .238/.303/.375. In the MINORS. That's Neifi Perez-type numbers. Even in college, the guy only hit .280/.331/.415. As of right now, he's hitting .225/.272/.348 in AA. He has not, at any point in his minor league or professional career demonstrated the ability to hit. Guys one year removed from the MVP race don't get traded for a prospect who is old for his minor league level, strikes out in a third of his at-bats, and isn't hitting well enough to hold his job in AA. That's an indication of being completely lost.
Yahoo! Sports' Gordon Edes had two Tigers items in his latest column, including what sort of package Dave Dombrowski was trying to put together for Matt Holliday:
The Detroit Tigers were in hard on Matt Holliday before he went to the Cardinals, but Oakland turned down a package that included the Tigers’ top shortstop prospect, Cale Iorg. Right-handed pitcher Freddy Dolsi, currently on the DL, would have gone to the Athletics as a player to be named later.
As was pointed out when this was posted in the comments of yesterday's recap, Edes might have Dolsi and Alfredo Figaro mixed up, as Figaro is currently on the DL.
FOXSports.com added that Oakland was asking for Casey Crosby and Scott Sizemore in a deal for Holliday. I guess you can't blame Billy Beane for trying to get the most he could, but that would've been quite a price to pay for what could've been a two-month rental.
That's fine - but that doesn't really change my stance that the Tigers really don't have anything to work with. They offered the A's Dolsi and Iorg, and got rejected. Halladay will be significantly more pricey - he's a better player, and is signed through next year.
The Tigers only lead the division by two games, and their remaining schedule is not easy. The White Sox are right on their heels, and the Twins (four games back) have the easiest remaining schedule of the three. Right now, the division is a crapshoot - and unlike 2006, finishing second this year will mean staying home for the postseason.
One of the keys to the Tigers' season thus far has been the stunning hitting of Brandon Inge - 21 HR and 58 RBI before the All-Star break. But he has a history of tailing off in the second halves of seasons, and in 10 games since the break, he hasn't driven in a single run. Can we really count on this guy bucking history and playing way above his head the rest of the season?
If I were Dombrowski, I do not trade Porcello for a 32 year old pitcher signed thru 2010. I do not think the team is good enough to win the World Series. In addition to Porcello, more prospects would be needed to complete the deal. The price is to steep.
Do not agree "The playoffs are a complete crapshoot - the hot team wins". You have to win 3 series to win it all and I do not like the Tigres chances.
If you are right and the playoffs are a crapshoot, then the hell with it, why give up a 20 year old for a 32 year old rent a pitcher, we are already in first and on target to make the playoffs.
Halladay isn't a rent-a-pitcher. They would have him next season.
Look - teams go on 3 or 4 game win/loss streaks several times during the season - even good ones. Some teams are lucky/unlucky enough to have them occur during the playoffs.
If Dombrowski put together a package including Porcello, Halladay would/will be a Tiger, doesn't appear likely to happen.
Now if we could get Halladay without parting with our 3 top starters or Cabrera, I am all for it. I know it is a dumb arguement on my part cause it ain't gonna happen.
If Dombrowski put together a package including Porcello, Halladay would/will be a Tiger, doesn't appear likely to happen.
I am 100% sure that's not true. Have you seen what the Phillies are rumored to be offering? The Tigers can't get him, which makes this whole thing silly.
HOWEVA, Porcello is a very young kid who MIGHT someday be good. He's been getting beaten to a pulp for over a month, and his K/BB rate is approaching 1:1 - neither are good signs. He looks, frankly, like he should spend a little time in AAA. This isn't an indictment - he's young, as I said. But I think we tend to over-rate our own prospects.
If what you say is true, then Toronto should pull the trigger.
As far as over-rating our prospects, probably true, however I was fine with giving up Miller and Maybin for Cabrera. I do not like the idea of parting with Porcello for anyone. I think Porcello will come thru this slump just peachy, it was inevitable, every pitcher has to endure it.
I think, had the Tigers not sent Cameron Maybin to the Marlins, they might have more stuff to swap with Toronto, but they did, and my trade analysis is poor at best. Weak.
Big Booty if we don't trade Maybin we don't have Cabrera. If we don't have Cabrera our crappy hitting is much worse.
Oh right.
Like I said, my ability to hypothesize trades is naked mole rat-level of intelligence at best. At worst, cheeseburger.
The Tigers need a bat more than anything. We saw in the Yankee series than good pitching alone can't get it done. I don't know exactly what could be had, but unless Guillen gives this lineup the spark it badly needs, it's got to come from somewhere else.
Not at all. Giving up a 20 yr old Porcello? No thanks plus Verlander and Jackson are both young. The Tigers will have quite a bit of free money at the end of the 2010 season with a few big contracts expiring by then to try to get a few big free agents. Except for the Jurrjens-Renteria trade, DD does things the right way for the most part. He had to overpay for Maggs and Im sure he sees all the empty space with Ordonez, Guillen, Robertson, Willis, and Sheffields contract comin off the books soon.
On the bright side I did like seeing Guillen back in the #5 spot. I'm however not a big fan of Rayburn or Clete Thomas. They're athletic but they dont have great bats and make bonehead plays in the OF sometimes. Then again, it is a defensive upgrade over Ordonez, Guillen, and Thames who make up for it with their bats.
and most everyone here is right, the Tigers don't have what the Jays want. Plus, the tigers already do have a solid rotation and in far more need of a bat or two to put them over the top this year.
I think (or maybe hope) that it is Philly as they have some really good young prospects, but it doesn't seem like they want to give them up. Good luck to the Tigers this season, my Jays are going nowhere fast!
Atleast they had a god April. It's hard to compete in the AL East. You have to be either NY or Boston, or do the Tampa Bay thing and suck for 10 years and be good once they hit their prime. Is it a given that the Orioles will pretty much be last or 2nd to last in their division forever?
I'm actually a Yankees fan and respect that yes the Steinbrenner's spend a lot of money, he's atleast an owner thats willing to spend to win. He could run hsi team like the Marlins and spend $20mil, make $30mil off of revenue sharing and put a shit product on the field.