OT: How OSU Sold DJ Carton
Hate to reopen an old wound, but The Athletic posted a puff piece on DJ Carton yesterday that has a few tidbits on his recruiting. Given that Michigan was leading for him just about up until the end, it was interesting to see what actually mattered to him.
As most speculated at the time, Ohio State's lack of point guard depth was a selling point. Ohio State told him they would let him play as a freshman and let him "make mistakes." We know that doesn't happen for a freshmen point guard under Beilein.
While, Ohio State didn't treat Carton as a potential one-and-done, it did "embrace the idea" that he could leave early for the NBA - which, per the article, Michigan did not do. Specifically, Ohio State pitched Carton on following Duke legend Jay Williams' career path:
"1. Win Big Ten Freshman of the Year, a conference championship and make the Sweet 16 in year one.
2. Be an All-American and national champion in year two.
3. Be National Player of the Year, a graduate and an NBA lottery pick after year three."
This made me laugh, as the team goals seem very unlikely. I would think only him winning freshmen of the year has any real likelihood of occurring. So they sold him on a dream and really focused on individual achievement. I'm betting Beilein doesn't really go for the latter.
Other notable items. It sounded like Carton was ready to commit to Michigan after his visit, but his step-father got him to hold off. And apparently Beilein called Carton during his Ohio State visit, and later apologized for doing so. The man is just too nice!
January 30th, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^
DJ Carton is afraid of competition. Anyone else laugh at the fact that even in their dream made up scenario he's not drafted till after he's a junior, and the player example they used didn't go to OSU (since OSU doesn't produce NBA talent like us) lmao. Good riddance.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:40 PM ^
Sorry, I think that's overly harsh on the kid. It's not crazy to choose a school for an immediate opportunity. Yes, I think Michigan was a better choice but if his goal is to make the NBA quickly, it's not a crazy choice.
My bigger question is this - if your goal is the NBA and you are an All American and national champion as a sophomore, who is their right mind would come back for a third year these days? Did OSU really think this through?
January 30th, 2019 at 4:44 PM ^
I’m not saying the selling points in the article are true or that they are not exaggerated, but if that’s why he choose OSU, he’s afraid of competition and an idiot.
January 30th, 2019 at 6:16 PM ^
Oh c'mon, that's not fair. He could have gotten paid.
January 30th, 2019 at 6:26 PM ^
Yeah, that was the most ridiculous thing about that scenario. Jay Williams played in a different era. Sophomore All-Americans do not come back to college anymore, because the NBA actively punishes guys for staying too long in college.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:22 PM ^
Well, hope he enjoyed the game last night. Because instead of learning from--and languishing behind--Zavier Simpson--he's going to be handcuffed by him in actual games in at least two OSU losses next year, pretty much guaranteed. And given how Michigan projects next year the first part of that fantasy formula the OSU coaches concocted for him can be thrown out the window now!
January 30th, 2019 at 2:57 PM ^
Can't blame a kid for wanting to go somewhere where there's literally no competition at your spot vs. a place you're guaranteed to sit out a year and maybe more if DDJ wins the job. That being said, there's no place in the country that develops players, and specifically point guards, better than the University of Michigan.
Some players want to just be on the court and some want to be the best players they can be. Michigan guarantees the latter, but not the former.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:15 PM ^
Are you related to DJ? I bet you can't contain yourself given his last name.
January 30th, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^
What point guards are doing well in the NBA that Michigan can point to? OSU can highlight Mike Conley, though not developed by Holtman.
January 30th, 2019 at 7:24 PM ^
I made that point too and was criticized (also DeAngelo Russell).
Beilein's highlights are shooting guards. Burke won POY but he hasn't panned out as an NBA PG
January 31st, 2019 at 12:06 AM ^
Playing 25-30 min a game is not panning out in the NBA?
What’s your definition of panning out then? Lol
January 31st, 2019 at 12:01 PM ^
I would imagine that the board isn't quite up-to-date on the Knicks tanking campaign considering the general antipathy towards all things NBA. He's done a really nice job rehabbing his career, but I'd imagine for most people the stink of his time in Utah is what they remember.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:00 PM ^
That's not a recruiting pitch it's a goal board. Why would anyone fall for that? If he just like them that's one thing but he's saying that's what won him over? "Come here and you'll win every major award and be a lottery pick after 3 years despite the NBA's disdain for players over 20." Any of 200 schools could say that with just as much evidence that it will actually happen.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
it may just have been the leaving early part of the pitch that sold him, but the article highlights this "three year plan"
January 30th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
So Beilein wanted this kid to come play for UM and be part of a team while OSU sold this dude on being an individual.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:55 PM ^
To be fair, the idea of getting out of Ohio sooner than you have to is pretty appealing.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:48 PM ^
But he decided to go to Ohio in the first place. Seems like a decent kid who mistakenly bought the typical OSU bullshit.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:01 PM ^
Glad Michigan destroyed those clowns...
Hope Carton was watching his team get beat down...
January 30th, 2019 at 3:09 PM ^
He's just happy he'll be on the court for the beatdown next year, apparently.
January 30th, 2019 at 8:05 PM ^
I loved the beatdown also but I wouldn't sell the suckeyes short in the next couple of years. They're bringing in some serious talent. They just don't have any talent in their soph, junior, and senior classes outside of their soph center Wesson.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
Hard for me to blame the kid too much for not coming here, especially if he wants immediate playing time and that was his main driver. He likely wasn't going to get that here.
Zavier is likely not leaving after this season (pretty sure he still has one year of eligibility left for the 2019-2020 season), and then DeJulius is the heir apparent once Zavier graduates. DeJulius will probably start eating into Z's minutes next season, especially if he can shoot. Would Carton have found minutes? Probably. But not as many as he would've likely wanted. OSU has no PG depth whatsoever, and he can almost walk into a starting role the minute he sets foot on campus.
If Carton envisions himself as a one and done, that's completely fine and his business. But we know Beilein's system is tough to cater to one and dones, and usually his players don't really start "clicking" until Year 2. So that may play a part as well.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:25 PM ^
All this is why Beilein tends to reel in high 4*s but not 5*s. The 5*s are looking for one and done.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Promising a national championship in any sport (especially basketball, in which it is so difficult) is damn near one of the dumbest pitches. Any athlete who would believe that must not be very intelligent.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:28 PM ^
Especially promising a natty at OSU given their current situation
January 31st, 2019 at 9:23 AM ^
*Unless your Bama or Clemson in football.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:06 PM ^
Who did we get in his place????
January 30th, 2019 at 3:30 PM ^
Cole Bajema. Small Forward from Washington.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
or Zeb Jackson (also a PG) in the class of 2020
January 30th, 2019 at 3:07 PM ^
January 30th, 2019 at 3:07 PM ^
At least his recruiter didn't bolt for an NBA job the day after he signed....that would be REALLY LOW!
January 30th, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
I never understand how people on here (and on twitter) can talk so poorly of a child based on his school decision.
As for the pitch - most schools pitch lofty stuff like this. If any of you were recruited, you would know. I guarantee our football team pitches National Champion goals and Heisman goals to potential recruits
January 30th, 2019 at 3:29 PM ^
Carton is legally an adult.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
Alright so let's rip into him. Nothing like middle aged unathletic guys ripping into elite high school athletes.
Oh I forgot though - you play beer league hockey so you are an elite athlete
Also, he made this decision in the summer between his Junior and Senior year.
January 30th, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
There's nothing wrong in being skeptic of being successful on those lofty goals. I think we would all have been happy to have DJ Carton and I remember that the board was disappointed that he did not choose Michigan. However, now that he is signed with OSU, he is a rival and I hope he has a successful career but always plays his worst game against Michigan.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:01 PM ^
There is an issue of instant gratification also. Kids want to play, get their TV time and their NBA contract - and they want it right now. Yet, sometimes it is better that they be patient, learn an advanced system and skills, and work so that they can be significantly improves when the time comes to move on. That could mean waiting behind someone else for a ehile, but it might be the right move.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Pretty much all of our NBA vets were starters in college on Day 1, except Levert. Should we retroactively criticize all those guys too for not wanting to compete?
January 30th, 2019 at 5:40 PM ^
No, that would be stupid, as is comparing apples to oranges, and making statements that are logical fallacies such as yours.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:53 PM ^
Explain the logical fallacies.
We have had plenty of recruits choose us when there was an obvious opening or ability to start on day 1, and left early for the pros early because of their early experience (Hardaway, Burke, Stauskas, GRIII all started immediately, and McGary played 20 MPG his first year).
With Zavier at PG, he isn't going to start, and he isn't going to get much PT at all.
January 30th, 2019 at 6:27 PM ^
It’s called composition/division fallacy. Although yours is also a bit of a black/white fallacy as well.
Isn’t it possible that many of the former M players who went to the NBA and who started their freshman year wasn’t because it was promised to them, but because they earned it?
January 30th, 2019 at 7:33 PM ^
It is possible, although starting in all games as a freshman generally occurs when there is a clear talent and ability difference. It's not that they were "promised", it's that there was no other logical choice.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:45 PM ^
You called him a "child". He's not. I don't know who's saying it's okay to rip recruits, but you definitely seem stable.
Also, don't think we didn't all catch your subtle humble-brag about being recruited. Pretty hilarious that you'd follow up that douchebaggery with an attempted "athlete" insult.
Good post though.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:19 PM ^
Based on my post, and then your direct response saying "he's legally an adult", the implication is that it is okay to criticize him because he is an adult.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:45 PM ^
Criticizing a child is douche-like. Criticizing an athlete for a decision that affects where he is gonna go be an athlete, especially when he’s an adult, is like .... half of sports talk on blogs/shows etc. Also, no one is ripping him personally calling him stupid or whatever. Double also, if he doesn’t want to be criticized then don’t do highly public things like college athletics.
How you don’t comprehend this, and keep comparing apples to oranges, is entertaining though.
January 30th, 2019 at 6:15 PM ^
"Criticizing an athlete for a decision that affects where he is gonna go be an athlete"...? Huh?
January 30th, 2019 at 7:10 PM ^
No. The point is that you referred to an adult as a child.
January 30th, 2019 at 8:13 PM ^
He is in high school, and made this decision in between junior and senior year...
January 30th, 2019 at 8:25 PM ^
Well, he's currently a legal adult. And you made your comment today, so I don't know what his decision date has to do with anything.
This is going great. Keep it up.
January 30th, 2019 at 4:56 PM ^
Well you could have made a reasonable point about, hey, it's his decision to make.
Instead you indicate that everyone on here is a middle aged unathletic guy. And then take a shot at a hockey guy no less. You must be a real pleasant conversationalist.
January 30th, 2019 at 5:30 PM ^
Hockey guy was on another thread a few months ago talking down upon top draft picks sitting out and saying how they don't love the game and only care about money. Most of his points were about how he is a hockey player and there's nothing that would get him to stop playing
January 30th, 2019 at 7:15 PM ^
And that has what to do with DJ Carton? Why are you dragging month-old posts about bowl skipping into a recruiting topic? All I said was Carton isn't a child.
I'm serious - are you doing okay?