OT - Grantland on the Girl/Baseball issue from last week

Submitted by JeepinBen on May 15th, 2012 at 9:49 AM


I thought this was extremely well written. Let's try to keep the politics/religion respectful, we did in the last thread.

I think Pierce hits a lot of correct notes here. I thought his "lack of justification" about baseball was quite interesting. And, of course, the kicker:

For all the theological dust they've thrown up to cover their cowardly retreat, Our Lady of Sorrows plainly and simply didn't want to lose to a girl.



May 15th, 2012 at 1:45 PM ^

Unless the kids have openly protested the decision of the school/coaches/parents, one can assume they are on board with it. Kids protest decisions of their schools all the time. You often here about it in the context of schools dances, and certain things being prohibited at such dances. Baseball is just an extracurricular school-sponsored activity like a school dance, which makes the comparison appropriate.


May 15th, 2012 at 1:03 PM ^

I'm not Catholic, much less a member of this particular sect, but the first paragraph of that story seems unnecessarily inflammatory.  (Incidentally, the author's contention that there is no Biblical justification for Jesus creating a church would seem to be refuted by Matthew 16.)



May 15th, 2012 at 1:57 PM ^


I would be a lot more game to defend  Our Lady of Sorrows if I was at all convinced they were acting solely for the purposes they say they are.  Unfortunately, my intuition tells me they are more interested in showing this young lady and her school up, thumbing their noses at them from the "moral" high ground.
They didn't force their beliefs on anyone per se, but they did exact a price on the young lady and her school by preventing them from winning a championship on the field.  Do you think anyone on their team is celebrating their victory right now?
Forfeiting the game gave Our Lady of a uniquely beneficial opportunity.  They could call attention to their anachronistic, misogynistic views(all the while receiving plenty of "freedom of religion" sympathy) while also diverting attention from Paige Sultzbach.  She should be the focus of a cool story about a girl playing with and beating the boys.

Mitch Again

May 15th, 2012 at 3:15 PM ^

I disagree with your sentence, "but they did exact a price on the young lady and her school by preventing them from winning a championship on the field."

I think she exacted a price on the young boys and their school by preventing them from winning a championship on the field.


May 15th, 2012 at 4:27 PM ^

Yeah, the right thing to do would be to drop the mitt, pick up an apron and get back where she belongs, right?


Strawman aside, it's sad that anyone would choose to blame her here.


May 15th, 2012 at 2:08 PM ^

Well, the Pius team took their stand. They do not have any obligation to abandon it. It was known well before the championship how they felt. It was known well in advance what would happen if their opponents chose to play a girl.



However, who is to say that the opposing team did not choose to play the girl in the championship, simply knowing the Pius team would then be forced to forfeit? Id guess that is something that has crossed the minds of the poor kids from Pius that were denied the chance to play for the championship they had earned a crack at.


May 15th, 2012 at 2:14 PM ^

Since the line in caps was missed....

I do not believe it was a ploy, however, what about the kids on that team, who worked hard, practiced, and played well enough, only to get their chance at a championship yanked from them, through no fault of their own. After all, it isn't like kids in a conservative catholic school have any other choice.


May 15th, 2012 at 4:17 PM ^


If they want to say I made up the reason I have very little extended family beyond my grandparents' generation, whatever, that's their perogative. But why is any other school playing baseball games against them if they're going to cancel the championship game?

At a very basic level, this is what conferences are about in college sports. Athletic competition is expected to be competitive, and conducted in a spirit of respect for each other. There's nobody in the world with their head on straight who can respect that school, so don't compete against them.

The article seems to purposely try to bend this toward politics (his egregious mistake of calling it a "charter" school, now corrected, is still there as a stain upon the whole enterprise). His crux is to make a moral argument: the school is bad guys, therefore they didn't play, therefore the school is bad guys. This is a useless crux -- judging that school and their beliefs isn't the most important action anyone can take here. No shit they're bad guys, but if they're bad guys then obviously there's nothing you can make them do. I rather think they pulled out on purpose because they, as radicals do, love the attention. They're trolling.

In this case, again, there is a positive corrective action that is justified and can serve as an example in other cases where bad guys interfere with the esprit du sport. Kick them out of the league. Ostracize them.

The league they play in is the Arizona Charter Athletic Association. Our Lady of Sorrows is not a charter school, but it's not like there's an athletic association for extremist schools. If they'd like to start one, they're hardly the only nutbags in the region--they are quite close in fact to many other cults, white supremecist separatist groups, 2012-er communities, and militias. I'm sure the neo-Nazis' kids like to play baseball just as much as the neo-Cons' (charter school joke - c'mon!) kids do. I say rather than let this one school cancel the ACAA championship, kick them out.

Space Monkey

May 15th, 2012 at 4:44 PM ^

I have read many comments of people who say they respect the school for exercising its rights even if they disagree with the school. I don't see it quite that way. There is a distinchtion to be made between respect for the existance of a right and respect for someone who chooses (wisely or unwisely) to exercise those rights.

I do not respect any and all idiots who exercise their right of free speech by putting their foot in their mouth. I don't respect the KKK who exercises their right of free speech/assembly. I do not respect the school for exercising its freedom of religious choice by participating in a league where girls may complete against them and then denying those girls and the teams on which they play the opportunity to play in a championship game against them. By doing so they are projecting their beliefs that girls should not compete in boys sports onto all the other teams in their league. Seems to me the other teams in the league should consider whether such bigotry should be tolerated in their league.

I do respect the right of people/organizations to make fools of themselves but I do not have to respect them for exercising those rights.