OT - General recruiting question

Submitted by trueblue262 on November 21st, 2012 at 11:24 AM

Just a general recruiting question to the board, after this week when all the HS playoff games wrap up, do things generally pick up as far as commitments go? Or do visits heat up, being that weekends are more free for the students. I am not trying to clutter the board with stupid topics, as this may sound exactley that.

Also, any news on Conley? I would have thought something would have come up by now if it were going to happen. Is there ANY chance that the ship has not completely sailed on Dawson?

Comments

robbyt003

November 21st, 2012 at 11:34 AM ^

You've been a member of this site since, Joined: 07/01/2008 , you should know the answer to the first question.  As far as Conley or Dawson goes, as soon as new information is out, I guarantee it will be on the board.  

M.Go.Blue

November 21st, 2012 at 9:16 PM ^

I was reading on The Wolverine that Dawson was trying to get back in with Michigan. Not sure how so, but something that had been posted just the other day. It was an afterthought on an article.

trueblue262

November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 AM ^

You got me, I do kind of know, but the 2nd part, mainly about Dawson has me puzzled, a few of the commits have been back and forth w/ Dawson on certain "social media outlets" and I just wanted to get a feel around here what everybody would think if it cam up (Dawson back)

And I wanted to get to 1800 points, ironically after that post it probably wont matter

Magnus

November 21st, 2012 at 12:03 PM ^

If you let Dawson off the hook, that opens up the door for numerous kids to make that "mistake" in the future.  He was well aware of the rule - and stated publicly that he knew Hoke's policy - and he tried to sneak around it, anyway.

Yeah, kids make mistakes, but that doesn't mean they deserve scholarships to a program like Michigan.  This wasn't a split-second decision like getting into a fight or hopping behind the wheel when you've had too much to drink.  He had weeks and months to consider this stuff, and he still chose to mislead Michigan's coaches.

robbyt003

November 21st, 2012 at 12:14 PM ^

He's like 17 years old, cut the kid a break.  Haven't you ever been in a situation when you were dating a girl, saw another attractive girl and thought hey she's hot, I should get with her. So then you go and start seeing the other girl, but you realize she isn't what she was cracked up to be, so you start regretting it and wish you would have just stayed with the first girl.  

WolvinLA2

November 21st, 2012 at 1:27 PM ^

Don't listen to David from Wyoming.  He's not like the rest of us - he does know wrong, knows everything and wins every argument, even with himself. 

Yes, we've all been there, your analogy was a good one. 

I don't know the whole situation with Dawson so I can't speak as to whether or not we should let him back, but I will say that not every rule needs to be hard and fast to be enforceable.  Extenuating circumstances happen.

WolvinLA2

November 21st, 2012 at 2:05 PM ^

I know that he's talking about, I just don't agree completely.  Yes, if there aren't consequences when rules are broken, they won't be obeyed.  But making rare exceptions really doesn't hurt. 

If you were a recruit and were told the rule, and you knew that every year one or two kids broke it and were cut loose, but that one year David Dawson was let back, would you test it?  Probably not, and if you did you probably didn't value the Michigan offer enough. 

Analogy:  Have you heard of people talking their way out of speeding tickets?  I have, it happens.  Does that mean I'm going to go around speeding know there's a slim chance I could talk my way out of it?  Not a chance, because chances are my story's not going to work.  Because of this reasoning, making an exception for Dawson wouldn't affect a future recruit's decision unless Hoke makes it a habit (which I highly doubt he would).

bluebyyou

November 21st, 2012 at 2:24 PM ^

In a sense that disrespects the rest of the recruiting class who made their commitment and have stuck by it.  Your decision impacts other people who might have loved to get the spot you took which is now gone and the other person has committed elsewhere.  So a kid is 17 or 18 - using his age as an excuse is a copout. Kids join the military at 17 and 18 and go off to war.

If you are unsure, don't commit, but once you make a decision, it should be honored.  I would expect them to abide by the decision except for rare exceptions such as a coaching change or change in the kid's family situation.

Oscar

November 21st, 2012 at 2:27 PM ^

To add to that, it looks like Dawson has the support of some, if not most, of the current commits.  So if all the current commits "signed off" on him getting his scholarship offer back, then I don't think there is any kind of dangerous precedence set.

Elmer

November 21st, 2012 at 12:32 PM ^

While you make a good point and I would guess the Dawson recruitment is over, the staff might cut him some slack considering what he's had to endure over the last year.  Losing a parent at that age is not easy.  Sounds like he's a kid that could really use the influence of a coach like Hoke right now.

Magnus

November 21st, 2012 at 1:54 PM ^

There are other good "father figures" out there besides Hoke.  And yeah, Dawson's had it rough...

...so next year what do you say to a kid whose dad left the family at a young age?

...and then what do you say to a kid whose dad has been in jail for the last six months?

I feel bad for Dawson, and I'm glad I was never put in a similar situation.  But there's a way that Hoke wants his recruits to act, and if he wants the policy to be respected, he has to follow through with what he says.

jayman065

November 21st, 2012 at 1:35 PM ^

Magnus....or anyone else...Just a point of clarification…. Mainly for my own understanding… someone tell me where I am wrong..

But I don’t think the policy is based on letting people off the hook or punishing

My understanding of the policy was that if recruits took visits they were no longer considered committed to Michigan and vs. versa…. This would result in Michigan recruiting to fill their spot, and COULD result in that position being filled by someone else.

If Michigan searches and doesn’t find a suitable replacement, I don’t see what in the policy, as I understood it, from Michigan prevent accepting his committee again, If both parties look around and choose to recommit to each other; that is to say based on the recruting policy as i understand it.

I understand why you don’t want wondering eyes, and I always thought that there could be a potential recommitment based on the policy…. Obviously the dynamic in each situation will be unique, and bridges may have ben burned.... i just dont think the recruiting policy as described by Hoke would prohiabite it....trust is a fickle thing....and  i understand if its gone to the coaches its gone, but i think that is the reason we wont see him back, not the recruiting policy.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

markinmsp

November 21st, 2012 at 1:57 PM ^

 Totally agree it is not a punitive issue and though I have never been in the situation of hearing Hoke’s last discussion with a recruit as he commits (have been for another B1G), I do believe his policy is made clear. Which in my understanding you have enumerated: If you take another visit, you are no longer considered a “committed” recruit, doesn’t mean you can’t recommit and as Marcus mentioned the outcome of Conley will be interesting as I believe he has informed the coaches.

Magnus

November 21st, 2012 at 1:56 PM ^

Hoke's policy appears to be that if kids visit elsewhere, they're no longer committed.  He will continue to recruit you, however, if you go about it the right way.

If you try to sneak behind the coaches' backs (like Pharaoh Brown and Dawson), then Hoke rescinds your offer - which he has done to both of those guys.  Neither one had/has the option of recommitting to Michigan.

thisisme08

November 21st, 2012 at 2:00 PM ^

At this point from what Tremendous/Ace/TomVH have said it is that once you commit to Michigan, thats it your done, if you choose to look around after your commitment then you are no longer committed to the school and you no longer have a place (at all) in the class i.e. there are no do overs. 

Moral of the story being if your not sure do not commit because you only get one shot at it or the staff moves onto the next person in line.

 

turtleboy

November 21st, 2012 at 2:15 PM ^

In the cases of Pharaoh Brown and David Dawson they knew exactly what the rule was, and tried to take visits behind the coaches backs in secret anyways. The coaches essentially gave up on them and went after the long line of kids who really want to commit after that. Those two prospects are very talented, and having them go to Michigan would be nice, but they also showed the coaches a lack of commitment, among other things, in the way they took visits. Commitment, drive, and character are just as important, if not more so, in turning a high school prospect into a successful college/pro football player than just talent. Coaches know they'd be better off finding a kid who's maybe less talented, a bit of a raw project player, but would fully take advantage of the oppourtunity they give him.

B1G_Fan

November 21st, 2012 at 3:43 PM ^

 Policy is don't visit while commited , he was not commited when he visited. if hoke chooses to allow him to Re-commit who cares honestly. He was consistant in upholding his policy.

 If we gave another recruit his spot then too late but only the coaching staff know exactly how many offers we are giving out this year.

WolvinLA2

November 21st, 2012 at 1:41 PM ^

Yeah - this may be one of those things where doing poorly with Treadwell may help us with Conley.  And I know rankings and whatever, but Conley is an explosive WR and would be great for our offense.  In a perfect world I'd love Treadwell at WR and Conley at CB, but it turns out that we miss on Treadwell and have Conley at WR, that's not a bad consolation. 

This class has good CBs already - Lewis, Ross and Stribling, and a shot at McQuay (who might be a CB or S).  Moving Conley to WR would be fine by me. 

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

November 21st, 2012 at 3:18 PM ^

Its also apparent the UM coaches give the kids leeway to express interest in other opportunities and the coaches will show extra attention (Dawson this summer, Conley this fall) when the kids' attention wane.

Truly, Dawson had a second chance after The Opening and his initial flirtations with Florida. Maybe 3rd chances and broken principles are inconsistent with Hoke's leadership mantra.

mGrowOld

November 21st, 2012 at 11:51 AM ^

Dawson is interesting.  Hoke has never said if a commit visits elsewhere he is "dead to me Fredo".  What he's said is that if a kid visits he no longer considers him a solid recruit and will no longer hold a spot for him.  So if signing day came and Dawson decided he wanted to come back AND Michigan still had an open scholly he could sign.

The problem Dawson has now though is our staff is treating him like he's gone and recruiting for his replacement.  My guess would be for that slot to re-open he'd have to go back to Hoke, tell him why he went on visits (especially since when he made his initial committment he has told not to) and ask for another chance.

Not likely to happen for a lot of reasons but not completely impossible either.  And given Dawson's personal situation I'm inclined to believe this staff might reconsider if he was honest in his explanation and sincere in his request to be taken back.

trueblue262

November 21st, 2012 at 11:57 AM ^

Hoke does somewhat have his credibility on the line if this does come up. Tough decision for coaches when he lists his favorites as all your rivalry schools. There was always a part of me that thought FL was the only other school that he MIGHT be interested in, not OSU, MSU and Wisky, those were all out of spite IMO

Magnus

November 21st, 2012 at 12:07 PM ^

The way Thomas Wilcher talked after the Dawson fiasco was that Hoke was done recruiting him, that the ship has sailed.  Hoke doesn't talk to the media much about recruiting, so I doubt he would ever hint that kids like that are "dead to me, Fredo."  But Pharaoh Brown snuck around, and they rescinded his offer.  The same happened to Dawson.

If a recruit is ever NOT sneaky about this type of thing, then that might be a different story, and there's an indication that the coaches might keep recruiting Conley if he visits, because he's been up-front about it.  But both Brown and Dawson have been sneaky about their visits.

mGrowOld

November 21st, 2012 at 12:18 PM ^

While I agree that the most probably outcome for a lot of reasons is that the Dawson ship has sailed I do think Hoke has a small (emphasis on word small) amount of wiggle room on this given Dawson's rather unique and sad personal situation.  But again - it would require a contrite and apologetic Dawson explaining why he did what he did and a sincere and upfront Dawson asking for reinstatement.

Not likely but not impossible either.  

markinmsp

November 21st, 2012 at 1:25 PM ^

 I agree with mGrow above, if he really wants it, he may just have to wait it out and see if there is an opening at or just prior to NSD. It could come down to holding an offer or two for a select recruit (read LT, Green, etc) and if that does go south (or west /s) then he may get another chance.

thisisme08

November 21st, 2012 at 2:05 PM ^

No offense but saying LT would be a Wolverine already if he wanted to is asinine as every comment above this is trying some way to get Dawson back in the class even though he broke the golden rule. 

LT is playing the game like the coaches have laid it out, if you want to take visits then you do not commit to Michigan, he's wanted to take his visits and been very up front about from the get go, now if Michigan misses out on him then so be it but at least he will not become a casualty of the rules but of a choice he's made with time.

markinmsp

November 21st, 2012 at 4:06 PM ^

 Agree. I am not saying LT won’t commit and would love to have him. Just used it as an example of the offer. I have no inkling either way with him. As everything I’ve heard indicates it will go down to the wire on NSD. Was there a time he came close; I hear there was; but IMO that doesn’t mean he moved on. I think he is a smart, thoughtful kid and wants to make the best decision on a major choice in his life.  I think he has his own timetable and will make the choice when he is absolutely certain and hasn't burned any bridges behind him.

Dustinlo

November 21st, 2012 at 11:52 AM ^

Does anyone have any input on UM's recent offer to this Sparty LB commit? Seems like odd timing considering we have been full for so long at the position. I do, however, really like this kid at the Sam spot.