OT: Game of Thrones S7 E4- The Spoils of War
August 7th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
It brought the dragon down on the second shot. Sure, it's not going to kill a dragon unless theres a vital organ shot at the very least, but even hitting it in the shoulder brings it down to where it's vulnerable (to wildfire, perhaps).
With a bunch of them set up around the Red Keep, it'd be pretty well protected.
Marbles knocked down the Wet Bandits. That doesn't make marbles a great weapon for stopping home invasions.
Less flippantly I think it "failed" to Jaime in that Crossbow But Bigger (patent pending) hit a dragon and still didn't make a difference in battle. Expecting that to help drive his decisions down the road.
With dragon assault on the Red Keep currently off the table, I think Dany loses a dragon in a different way now. Now that she's aware she should be able to counter the things with three dragons and tactics like "drop stuff from really high up," but who knows with the strategery they showed in eps 1-3.
Whose decisions? It sounds like you're saying Jaime's decisions. But, uhh, I don't think Jaime will have any more decisions to make, other than surrender on his knee... When he gets fished out the pond he'll be looking a couple of Dothraki's and a dragon. You know, assuming someone can dive off the continental shelf and catch up to his armorized rate of descent.
I buy the theory Jaime is the little brother who will betray Cersei. Following that he lives and still has a role to play down the road beyond prisoner.
reference Home Alone? That's amazing, btw. I mean, if you're talking about this singular battle, sure, the crossbow failed to win this one for them.
But something can be useful without being the "best" solution. So again, one single crossbow was highly effective at bringing down the dragon. Put a couple of those on each of Euron's ships, and and you have a potentially dragon-proof navy (which begs the question, can dragons swim?). Perhaps during an attack on Dragonsone?
The crossbow may well kill a dragon. It just seems like that would require the element of surprise or further tactical ineptitude. Presuming these things can learn new tricks, couldn't Dany direct a dragon to drop something heavy and/or flaming on a fleet from very high in the sky? Or wait for some fog?
Honestly I just expected a more creative solution from Qyburn's big reveal.
Ah yes, I didn't even think of that. She is indeed starting to get fucked and not by Jamie this time.
EDIT: Others mentioned that Lord Tarley said the gold made it. I try to listen to every word in the show's dialogue (because it's important for this show), but missed that part.
You did miss it - he said it shortly before mentioning the flogging of stragglers... It was one of those one-off lines that GOT flashes over quickly - and if you miss it, you're sent down the wrong trail.
August 7th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
All the gold made it to King's Landing, but the food did not. And I'm assuming just about all of, or at least most of the Lannister army has been annihilated between the Unsullied taking Casterly Rock and the Dothraki/Drogon battle last night. And Jaime is likely captured again.
Cersei's options just became extremely limited.
Speaking of Cersei's limited options, she might have to marry Little Finger now so she can get her hands on an army (the knghts of the Vale) with some remote hope of countering the Dothraki.
But she's still pretty much screwed fielding any army (or navy) against three dragons.
Dany, however, has lots of options. Since Euron is such an unlikeable bastard, I'm hoping she takes the three dragons out to sea next to torch his armada. Unlikely he set sail armed with those mega crossbow thingys, so they're sitting ducks if she can find them. I'm even okay with prisoner Yara being among the casualties if we get to see that whole navy incinerated.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. The Vale is still a northern army and would likely refuse to fight for the Lannisters. And even if the Vale went willingly, they're nowhere near enough on their own to take on 40,000 Dothraki, whatever is left of the Unsullied, and three dragons.
Cersei essentially just has whatever is left in King's Landing. The Queensguard, the City Watch, and the Mountain. Who knows how much the first two really want to fight for her. Also [retty reasonable to assume the majority of the Lannister army is gone. If not all of it. She has Euron's fleet, but they're sitting ducks for dragons.
Unless the Iron Bank willing to pull a 180 and bail her out, she's pretty much screwed.
The Vale is south of the Neck, so I wouldn't count it as in the North. However, Lord Jon Arryn died in King's Landing under mysterious circumstances, or at least so Lady Arryn believed. It was true, but I'm not sure how much that belief was held by the Vale's bannermen. But it seems unlikely they'd be supporting Cersei.
Spoiler alert: pretty sure Lysa was in on it
Spoiler Alert: Lysa put tears of Lys in his wine.
Damn, I forgot that. Still, how willing would the Knights of the Vale be to follow Littlefinger if he switches sides?
My answer, it depends. I ultimately think LF gets killed before something like that happens.
We know that Yohn Royce was skeptical that Sansa was kidnapped and thought that LF was somehow involved. I guess that angle was forgotten about because Yohn Royce is a Winterfell now, he can just ask Sansa if she was kidnapped or sold to the Boltons.
Is that enough for Yohn Royce to not follow the orders of LF who is the protector of the Vale?
August 6th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^
August 6th, 2017 at 10:04 PM ^
One HELL of a scene. Have to imagine the Tyrion-Jaime-Bronn reunion is on for next week.
August 7th, 2017 at 12:04 AM ^
You are right. They have to fish Jamie out just for the dramatic showdown. Even less suspense than "Is Jon Snow Dead".
I think 1st 1/2 is Dany winning 7 kingdoms, 2nd 1/2 is Dany vs whitewalkers.
With Daenerys, Tyrion, Drogon, and a bunch of Dothraki standing in front of him.
I believe at some point in the next three episodes, Daenerys will finally see the army of the dead, but that showdown (and even a final showdown between Cersei and Daenerys) won't be until next season.
I don't think Dani will ever sit on the Iron Throne. She will sacrifice herself to stop the White Walkers. Azor Ahai/the Last Hero/The Prince That Was Promised needs to make a sacrifice to gain his station. Jon Snow will have to sacrifice Dani (not go to her aid like he tried to do for his brother) to fulfill the prophacy. That's my take, anyway.
August 6th, 2017 at 10:17 PM ^
August 6th, 2017 at 10:19 PM ^
August 6th, 2017 at 10:30 PM ^
August 6th, 2017 at 10:48 PM ^
A flanking attack would have taken out more soldiers.
August 6th, 2017 at 11:53 PM ^
Killing soldiers and save the food. But I'll give them a break, it's been over a thousand years since dragon battle tactics have been used. I'm sure they're rusty. I do wonder how many ICBCs (Inter-Continental Ballistic Crossbows) Qyburn had built.
The whole episode was really good, but that last battle scene overshadows everything. Incredible. The last five minutes they have you thinking Dany is going to die, and Jaime is going to die, or Bronn is going to die, or Dracarys. It really made me question who I am rooting for. Just crazy. Greatest show ever? Maybe. Certainly this episode is one that people will point to when they have that discussion. I'm still partial to the Sopranos, but it's getting close.
Dracarys is not the dragon's name - it is Drogon. Dracarys is her command to the dragons to annihilate the enemies with fire.
and yes, it's the best show ever. I like The Sopranos, but that it not even remotely close to the awesomeness that is Game of Thrones.
I don't think she wanted to kill too many soldiers (and I just realized that). She wanted to defeat them with as little bloodshed as possible, basically by taking out their food and supplies and demonstrating power so they'd have to surrender.
The scenes from the next show her saying she doesn't want to be a murderer, and gives them the opportunity to bend the knee and join her. She wants to accumulate followers, not just eliminate enemies.
August 6th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
More dramatic.
Lots of dumb "real combat" decisions in the show (hand-to-hand combat tends to be ridiculous) for dramatic effect. It's fiction/drama, not documentary or re-enactment, so I ust let that stuff go.
August 7th, 2017 at 11:36 AM ^
The Dothraki are not farmers. They need to fight, drink their enemies blood. The highest honor, die in battle.
Agreed. I think she decided to finally let the horde loose. They're not meant to be contained on an island for their ruler's protection. Or contained anywhere. They're best when they're let loose to ravage everything in their path.
They also made a point an episode ago where Dany by herself would've been too vulnerable. Even with all three dragons. She would've still likely taken down at least most of the Lannister army, but she'd command all the attention, and there'd be a very good chance that a stray arrow hits her. That happens? Boom. War's over, Cersei has won.
The Dothraki were a perfect way to keep the rest of the Lannister army occupied. She is formidable by herself. But with the Dothraki as well, she's near unstoppable.
Ahh Mgoblog, the only place that would thoroughly analyze the dragon tactics of a fictional show. Gotta love it.
Clearly you don't reddit.
August 7th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
Or Fark-it.
I do, but "one of two places where dragon tactics are discussed" didn't have the same syntactic flow. Plus, subreddits are designed for specific topics like that, this site is for Michigan football that got on a dragon tactics tangent. But I digress, hilarious all the same.
Yeah, you're definitely right about that.
August 6th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
August 6th, 2017 at 10:27 PM ^
Varys is betraying her. Tyrion will convince her to sacrifice her ambition (in the short run) for the greater good. Cersei will ally with dani and Jon, and then betray them. That's what will get Cersei killed.
Dani will sacrifice herself to stop the White Walkers.
August 7th, 2017 at 12:49 AM ^
Missendai, she's working for Baelish who's playing both ends against the middle.
Missendai is a suspect, but what's her motive?
She could be a faceless man or Quaithe, but that doesn't really explain her motives.
The ol' Scooby Doo/faceless man theory: anyone can be wearing a mask
I didn't say faceless man for cop-out answer.
In the books, Missandei is only 10 years old, but she is considered to be one of the smartest in Dany's council and knows 12 languages. This is somewhat similar to the Waif. In the books she looks like a little girl, but she is actually around 36 years old because of a poison she ingested.
Missandei claims that she is from Naath. Naath is known to carry a dangerous disease that only the inhabitants are immune to. It is said that outsiders can't stay on Naath for more than 1 year. To me it is highly unlikely that she learned that many languages on an island like Naath at the age she claims.
August 6th, 2017 at 10:27 PM ^
Torching supply lines is an acceptable tactic.