OT-Game of Thrones S6 E5

Submitted by Eastside Maize on
Arya is about to be in Assassins Creed. Will Yara sit on the salt throne? Sansa is the brains and Jon the brawn. Ramsay, do not be deceived...you will reap what you sow. WHAT IS DEAD MAY NEVER DIE

Rabbit21

May 23rd, 2016 at 2:42 PM ^

Based on book storylines that would be one HELL of a narrative shift.

Which isn't to say that your theory is a bad one as the show and the books have definitely diverged, but it feels like the basic notes are still in place and betraying Dany doesn't feel like a part of Varys' endgame.  

Rabbit21

May 23rd, 2016 at 4:59 PM ^

With Young Griff perhaps being a Blackfyre, that makes a certain amount of sense, but even so, given the Targaeryen marital.........traditions Varys'd still be self interested in keeping Dany alive and in power to present the strongest possible match.  

Interesting angle, but I still have a hard time buying Varys not acting with Dany's interests(even if not necessarily best interests) in mind.

Chuck Norris

May 22nd, 2016 at 11:29 PM ^

It's a time loop. Bran, trapped back in time (since he can't control his powers or whatever and Max Von Sydow is dead) has to warg "Past Hodor" in order to get to "Present Hodor." As such, "Past Hodor" experiences everything Bran had "Present Hodor" do (particularly his own death while Meera was yelling "hold the door!"), which emotionally traumatizes him to the point that he can't do anything but repeat that phrase over and over for the rest of his life.

I Bleed Maize N Blue

May 23rd, 2016 at 12:15 AM ^

I'm not sure Bran is trapped, but more that he loses himself in the events of the past and so far lacks the will/discipline to pull himself away. The old man warned him about spending too much time in - let's say "otherwhen" - because he could lose himself and not get back.

He's not ready, but he better learn fast.

schreibee

May 23rd, 2016 at 8:44 AM ^

Has it ever been said - in the show - that Howland Reed is still alive? I'm not sure how much Jojen ever speaks of his father (is it?), or much about the Reeds at all after the initial introduction when Meera has her knife at Asha's throat. Someone on here theorized that Howland Reed is the High Sparrow a few weeks back, but he told a different story of his past last episode. Are you waiting for Howland to suddenly show up out of the blue to verify Jon Snow's true parentage? Seems unlikely at this point. I think the show runners have chosen a different path.

schreibee

May 23rd, 2016 at 3:25 PM ^

How can you say Howland Reed "has no reason to" show up or make his presence felt at all through this point of the story IF he's the only living person that knows Jon Snow's true parentage?!

I mean, if he's fighting the Iron Born and they'd taken over Winterfell for some time, he's got a lot of reason to get involved, right? How would he not have joined Robb's army?

And if he's never appeared in the books, there's no evidence even he knows Jon's parentage. I only point this out as I posted that without the time travel there's no one who can even know - much less prove - that Jon is the product of R+L. Soneone countered that Reed knows.

Or have I missed something? Only read 1st book, so at this point of the story I only know what's in the show, or that readers post on here. I don't think he's going to suddenly appear as some resolution to any extant thread by this point, at least not in the show.

Who knows WTF Martin's gonna do?!

bacon1431

May 23rd, 2016 at 6:26 PM ^

There's no reason for the crannogmen to join Robb in the open field when the banners are called. They're notorious guerilla fighters. A battlefield is not the place for them. 

And they may not have been mentioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if some crannogmen were part of scout teams and the such when the North needed to be stealthy. But there's little reason for the ruler of the Neck to be involved in those things. 

I Bleed Maize N Blue

May 23rd, 2016 at 7:09 PM ^

Howland Reed is Lord of the Greywater Watch, which is very swampy. It doesn't produce knights or heavy infantry. Neither is it good terrain for invaders with such. Reed was a friend of Ned Stark, and aided Robb to the extent of making it rough going for any Lannister troops in his territory, so they'd rather go around.

schreibee

May 24th, 2016 at 12:36 PM ^

Thanks to both bacon & bleed for the info on Reed. It clarifies why he wouldn't join Robb in the field, but says nothing about whether he knows R+L=J, which my point in this is if he did he'd have great reason to get involved. Send more than Jojen & Meera to aid Bran, he'd send people or even just a damn Raven to someone.

I just believe the DBs have decided to leave Reed (and ColdHands, who has been mentioned in this thread) out of the story altogether. It will take Bran's time travel to reveal Jon's parentage, and then will his knowledge affect outcomes like his control of Wyllis did? And the whole time loop element - is this strictly show created? nothing from the books about this?

I guess most centrally, can he go back and get the Children to not create the Walkers in the first place? Then everything changes.....

bacon1431

May 24th, 2016 at 1:30 PM ^

While I'd be less surprised if he didn't show up in the show than I'd be if he didn't in the books, I think that as long as Meera is alive, there's a great chance we meet him at some point. That doesn't mean he necessarily knows about Jon's parentage, but if R+L=J, how did Ned get him back to Winterfell? Stick him in a sack for the whole ride home from the Tower of Joy? If R+L=J and Jon is in the ToJ, then Howland Reed most certainly knows the details of Jon's parentage. 

It makes sense too because as far as we know, Ned and Reed haven't been in the same place at the same time since ToJ. 

And I don't think we see Bran changing the course of the future or past. I don't believe this time travel creates alternate timelines, just continuous loops of certain events. Hodor is the way he is because Bran would need someone with brute strength that could follow orders to get him to the Three Eyed Raven. Bran may have created Hodor, but that's because it was destiny and what needed to happen. Future Bran created it for present Bran who will in turn commit the same act when he gets to the weirwood. 

schreibee

May 24th, 2016 at 6:11 PM ^

Thanks again for the good knowledge. The point we can't seem to converge on is if R+L=J and Reed knows this we'd have to heard from him by now, wouldn't we? Aside from his own battles with iron born and their battles with Starks, the info is too great to sit on if you know it. It could be used for all kinds of leverage, no matter which side you pitched it to. It would almost be ridiculous for him to suddenly show up, but my guess is he will if only to confirm what Bran sees in a vision of ToJ. And as to how Ned got infant Jon from ToJ to Winterfell, well we all know he brought Jon home as an infant theoretically as his own bastard. What'd be the big diff?

bacon1431

May 24th, 2016 at 10:57 PM ^

The promise Lyanna may have made Ned make could be to protect Jon. Revealing him as a Targ doesn't protect him. If anything, it makes much of Westeros want him dead. And while Reedhas some power, he's hardly in position to do much with the info. And I doubt he would release the info to anyone but Jon or family first. And he's yet to encounter them as far as we know.



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JFW

May 23rd, 2016 at 12:43 PM ^

but if they turn a low magic/high politics fantasy epic into a psuedo science fiction time looping story that uses magic insted of science, I'd be disappointed. 

I did some YouTube scanning yesterday. I think some of my favorite parts of the entire series were watching Rob do his thing, and especially watching Tyrion as hand; or Tyrion and Varus play off against one another. 

Having all that be caused/kicked off/influenced by Time Travelling Bran would kind of undercut that story for me. 

 

 

Perkis-Size Me

May 22nd, 2016 at 11:24 PM ^

Good episode with a great, emotional ending, but I have to say I'm not really a huge fan of the episodes this season jumping around so much and trying to focus on too many characters.

I get that there's a lot of story to tell, but some of the plots so far just seem so thin. Trying to tell too many stories in a short amount of time.



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M Go Dead

May 23rd, 2016 at 12:08 AM ^

I get emotional pretty easy with movies/shows but never really cry. But that last scene hit me hard and had me upset for some time. I do have questions about it ask story wise, but it was super well done. I guess I'll have to see how it holds up with time and rest the story.

RioThaN

May 23rd, 2016 at 12:27 AM ^

Dismissing the Knights of the Vale was a stupid move on Sansa's part, I get that she doesn't trust littlefinger but you're preparing for war and scrambling to put together an army and you do that? She was at the table and knows that they don't have enough men.

aiglick

May 23rd, 2016 at 12:45 AM ^

Theory: Bran goes back in time, convinces the Children to not create the White Walkers, and everything changes. Except Ned somehow still dies because that's a constant. Who the heck knows. Rest in Peace Hodor and all of Bran's protectors.

ken725

May 23rd, 2016 at 7:26 PM ^

I don't think Bran can change the past.

 

"The past is already written. The ink is dry." Time travel in ASOIAF follows Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle, which posits that there is only one timeline, and people who go in the past to change the past have already changed the past and that it was destined to happen all along.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4knqo7/spoilers_extended_time_…

MGoBender

May 23rd, 2016 at 8:15 AM ^

Ooohh.... There was also a line from Sansa about being used to produce an heir.  Good catch.  I took the line as she can she figuratively feel/remember the assault.

But, your interpretation is much more dynamic and brings up some big questions and issues.