OT - Game of Thrones Episode 4 Open Thread

Submitted by MGoBender on April 21st, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Open Thread on Episode 4 of Season 3.

Please no book spoilers - I'd recommend/request you start a separate thread if you want to discuss the episode in relation to the books. Mucho gracias.

Nice open with Jaimie's hand hanging around his neck.

Comments

MGoBender

April 21st, 2013 at 10:10 PM ^

A lot of critics early on liked to point and scream "look at the objectification of women" and "how can anyone celebrate a TV show that demeans women."

I doubt they'll eat crow and admit they're wrong, but in Arya Stark and Daenerys Stormborn Game of Thrones has probably two of the strongest female characters in televion/media right now.

Throw in Margary's super intelligence and I would say the Game of Thrones universe does a pretty awesome job presenting amazing female characters.

M-Wolverine

April 22nd, 2013 at 4:39 PM ^

Most of the men are idiots. Unless they're dwarves or eunuchs. Ned was your "hero" but he was too dumb to play the game and lost his head for it. Besides, there's a fair amount of penis in there too. The only thing that's silly is the sexposition, and they seem to have gotten away from that.

Edit: I can figure if this was voted on by someone who hates dwarves, eunuchs, and/or penis, or someone who loves men, Ned, or sexposition.

swan flu

April 21st, 2013 at 10:12 PM ^

Not a chance. Ned was a logical, humble, just, stoic leader who always told the truth regardless of how it affected him. Arya is a tempestuous, spontaneous, cold-hearted, survivalist who learns how to lie in order to manipulate people to reach ultimately-justified ends.

Robb is the most like Ned.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 22nd, 2013 at 8:45 AM ^

but why would that be ironic? I could see if he was the most like Catelyn that would be ironic, but Ned is his father and he was raised by the man his entire life. I guess if he was raised by someone other than Ned and turned out just like him it could be ironic, but in this case I have to be honest...I don't see a lot of irony here. Just because he had a different mother doesn't make him any less Ned's.

MikeCohodes

April 22nd, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^

based on certain implications from the novels that I will not go in to here to avoid spoilers. George RR Martin has never 100% spelled it out though, but there are some interesting theories floating around about Snow's parentage that I will be happy to discuss on Twitter but not here in a spoiler-free space.

 

EDIT:  If you don't have Twitter or just want to read for your self, click here for what I was referring to.  Warning - spoilers from the books ahead, don't click if you don't want spoilers.

LINK to A Wiki of Ice and Fire

MGoBender

April 22nd, 2013 at 1:10 PM ^

Jon Snow's mother is a pretty prevalent plot line in Season One, so we're not totally in book only talk with that.

Though I would suggest nobody clicking that link if you are not a book reader.  I made the mistake once of perusing A Song's Wiki just to try to get a little background info on a character (it might have even been as innocent as looking up a name) and I saw that Ned Stark's date of living had an end date.  Needless to say, Season One Episode Nine didn't quite pack the punch with me that it could have.

jdon

April 22nd, 2013 at 2:38 PM ^

Let me second that. I too tried to research some while reading and found out a couple horrible facts... I also made a mistake and commented out loud about a character who may or may not have died in book 5 and my wife still won't let me live it down.

 

I recommend the towerofthehand.com because you get to set your level by both TV series and books.

jdon

joeyb

April 22nd, 2013 at 3:42 PM ^

I've been reading the books right before the seasons start so I have them pretty fresh in memory. I have to be careful on reddit because sometimes I think a thread will be ok and then someone drops a huge spoiler for book 5 even though the thread is about book 3. My wife isn't reading the books, but she spoiled herself about part of the RW by reading about casting changes. She came home one day and said, "OMG, you didn't tell me [insert character] died!" to which I replied, "That's because I didn't know. Thanks." Luckily, that scene was so much more than just that, so it wasn't such a big deal.

M-Wolverine

April 22nd, 2013 at 4:38 PM ^

As much as possible since I too learned that Stark loses his head. So what I'm saying here is complete speculation, Re: the show, and what may or may not happen in the books. I in no way need anyone who's read them to confirm/deny/say we don't know whether it's accurate or not. It's solely for TV show speculation-

I always thought it would make sense that Snow's mother was Baratheon's sister who Ned loved.  Which would double the reason for his wife to hate him, so it might be a good idea to keep it secret. And it would also thus make Snow an heir to the throne (if you believe Baratheon as a rightful king and not think that, even though he was mad, Targaryen was the king, thus making Daenerys the person who should truly be on the throne.  I mean, assuming you think any of them should be and aren't big on democracy.)

MGoBender

April 21st, 2013 at 10:01 PM ^

Usually I watch the episode a second time Monday after work, but holy shit I might watch it again right now.  Unreal episode all around.

 

One Inch Woody…

April 21st, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^

This was definitely the best epsiode so far - my favorite scene would have to be when Theon is confiding in his "friend"... He basically summed it all up by saying that he had a choice... but he chose wrong. But frustratingly, he can't see that he does have a chance at redemption. That Ramsay guy is a maniac.

One Inch Woody…

April 21st, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^

Oh trust me, I know

In the books, Theon's mental state starts dehumanized and is slowly peeled back like an onion but here it is extremely visceral how he is progressing towards dehumanization. The line about Robb inherting the north simply because he was born and that Theon was born of the iron islands really makes his actions in the last books even more endearing also. I just feel so much pity for him and while his choice did end up screwing the Starks (and others) over, it was because he felt like he had to be loyal to his own roots. Unfortunately, his people betrayed him. Poor guy.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

April 21st, 2013 at 10:26 PM ^

Martin has an amazing talent for shades of gray.  There are very few characters who are totally bad or totally good and their complexities are tremendous.  It would've been easy for anyone to write, for example, an arrogant twat who's boffing his sister and shoving kids out windows to hide it, but Martin does an amazing job of teasing out the intracacies of people like Jaime Lannister and Theon Greyjoy.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 22nd, 2013 at 9:01 AM ^

and I agree 100%. In both watching and reading the books I find myslef constantly flipflopping as to whether I like certain characters or not. In the first season I absolutely hated Jaime Lannister and now I find myself feeling sorry for him and wanting him to find the strength to weild a sword left-handed and somehow fight his way free of his captors. With Theon I went from indifferent to enjoying him, then hating him and now...feeling sorry for him. I sometimes find myself wishing he could somehow make ammends with the Starks and live happily ever after. It such a roller coaster.

One of the only ones I had a great affinity for from the start was Tyrion Lannister. I don't really know why that is, it just happened. That affinity has only grown as the books and show has progressed to show how truly awful his family (particulaly his father and sister) treats him.

I will say there are 2 character that I has absolutely hated from the introduction of them to the story and they are Joffery and Tywin. Seriously, there has been no roller coaster where the 2 of them have been concerned. 

I love this series (even moreso the books) and must say I enjoy discussing it here.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

April 22nd, 2013 at 10:11 AM ^

It's easy to explain the affinity for Tyrion.  Even if it weren't for the witty quips and obvious disgust he has for Joffrey.  He's friendly to the Starks even when they aren't friendly to him because of his last name, and he plots against Cersei as much as anyone else.

Jaime is interesting because now that he's short one hand, I feel like he's been karmically repaid for crippling Bran, so he's much harder to hate anymore.  The Hound is another one who ought to be totally despicable and yet I actually like.  Even Tywin doesn't come up to the level of Joffrey; if I had to pick someone else to put on the Joffrey end of the like-hate scale it's either Lysa or Gregor.

Blue in Yarmouth

April 23rd, 2013 at 9:29 AM ^

He is a funny character. In the beginning you develop some empathy toward him based on the story Little Finger tells Sansa in relation to how his face was burned. This just after you hate the man for killing an innocent young boy who had done nothing wrong.

Then he seems to continuously be helping Sansa in various ways while still outwardly trying to be viewed as a monster who cares nothing for human life. He is a bit of an inigma.

My hatred for Tywin is almost soley based on the manner in which he treats Tyrion. In the books and the show alike there seem to be moments where you (at least I do) think Tywin is about to show, even if only in a small way, his affection for Tyrion only to be hit with yet another horrible portrayal of his distain for his son. I hate that guy. If not for that, he would almost be a likable character in my opinion. 

M-Wolverine

April 21st, 2013 at 10:05 PM ^

Since the sea was burning green. Not sure there was any part that dragged. From the sorcerer to all the plotting around Sansa to Lefty's interaction as a prisoner, it was some great stuff. And that's even before the big finish. I kinda expected that dragons aren't exactly sold, but the way she became a leader of men was great stuff.

jerseyblue

April 21st, 2013 at 10:12 PM ^

Who do you think wins that Night's watch battle? Seems like half go rogue and hald stayed good soldiers. That guy saying that he's going to hunt the fat one and the girl makes you think that bad guys win but I find it hard to believe the just killed the good ones so quickly. especiall the ones that you see talking all the time.

One Inch Woody…

April 21st, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^

If you remember from Season 2, Craster gives his boys to his "Gods" - the White Walkers who presumably leave him untouched as long as they keep getting boys. They probably have some way of knowing that he's had a child -> Gilly's child is a boy. Those White Walkers aren't going to be happy when they find out a.) Craster's dead and b.) that boy is gone. Whomever is staying at Craster's is going to be meeting those White Walkers again and probably won't live to tell the tale this time.

Ali G Bomaye

April 22nd, 2013 at 12:40 PM ^

It was my impression that Craster let his sons die of exposure not as any kind of offering, but just to prevent eventual competition for leadership of his harem.  The whole gods/sacrifice angle sounded like a transparent excuse for the practice so that the Night's Watch can somewhat ignore the fact that they're staying with an abusive, gluttenous murderer.

Ali G Bomaye

April 22nd, 2013 at 1:27 PM ^

I saw that, but is there any indication that Craster has some kind of implicit deal with the White Walkers?  Or is that just one of the things that can happen to kids left outside north of the wall?

Edit: never mind; it appears you're right.  I guess I totally missed that aspect of it.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

April 21st, 2013 at 10:13 PM ^

In reading the books I'd always considered the Daenerys chapters a sometimes unwelcome diversion from the "main" story.  Half the time I liked them but half the time I was all "come on, shit's happening in Westeros, get back there already."  Then I got to this chapter and changed my mind.

Mlaw2010

April 21st, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^

Best episode they've ever done. The last scene was perfect. Never thought it could be as perfect as it was in the book but it blew that out of the water.