James Burrill Angell

July 11th, 2016 at 1:29 PM ^

Ethan Sherwood StraussESPN Staff Writer 

Asked the East Lansing PD about last night's incident involving Draymond Green: "We are confirming that Draymond Green was arrested for assault in our downtown business district early Sunday morning at around 2:30AM. The victim was a male. It was basically an altercation between two guys. There's no injuries. He was released with a 200 dollar bond on Sunday. And he's got 10 days to get arraigned and then prosecution will continue from there." Police confirm that the establishment where the altercation occurred was Conrad's Grill in East Lansing.

LSAClassOf2000

July 11th, 2016 at 1:58 PM ^

Considering that apparently this game has already led to traffic accidents, a few robberies and most recently, people wandering uncomfortably close to energized lines, it seems not entirely unreasonable that assault might eventually end up on the list of things caused by Pokemon Go. Seriously, what a game to cause things like that just because one has to catch them all. I'll probably never see my kids again unless I lock down the Google Play store now. 

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 12:25 PM ^

does this mean that Tom Izzo is not a class act and a great leader and molder of men.  Of course it doesn't, because nothing could mean that.  Right Dicky V?

stephenrjking

July 11th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ^

I get as tired of Izzo hero slobbering as much as the next guy, but the actions of a player years after they left the influence of a coach are not his responsibility. Green himself is accountable for what he has or has not done.

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 12:42 PM ^

is a pattern with former Michigan State basketball players under Izzo.  Cleeves is currently being prosecuted for rape and there may be a second case.  Appling just got arrested for basically carrying a machine gun to a night club.  Dawson was charged with domestic violence and now Green is arrested for assault.  Additionally, you have to consider the investigation into Payne and Appling when discussing this as well.  I am not making a "partisan" point here as a Michigan fan.  It is just a fact.  if I was a parent of a highly ranked basketball player in this State he would not be going anywhere near that program.

stephenrjking

July 11th, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^

Surprise, surprise: Some young men with various socio-economic backgrounds do bad things after college.

If Izzo is responsible for their behavior, I am interested in evidence to that point. If, as suggested based on other isolated incidents ("investigation" doesn't mean much) he has local PDs actively suppressing evidence of wrongdoing or is doing it himself, I am interested in a more complete report. 

Baylor's football program has just been completely eviscerated because its coach actively looked the other way and suppressed evidence of this sort of thing; Joe Paterno has become a proverb for reckless wanton ignorance of serious crime. There is absolutely no reason MSU is above this if such things are happening in EL.

So I would like to see this. Shouldn't take too much effort to feret out. Doubtless there are MSU grads or dropouts who are victims who would be willing to talk, or local citizens who have been left holding the bag.

But if this is not the case, and Izzo is not in fact encouraging or covering up crimes, then you have a situation where players are involved in illegal activity of their own accord. 

A "holier-than-thou" attitude is a dangerous position. And, given that Michigan football has in the past five or so years had players linked to all of the offenses you have just listed for MSU basketball, I think it is unwarranted in our case.

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 12:55 PM ^

would you go to these lengths to defend Izzo?  That is really odd.  Tom Izzo is a compulsive excuse maker.  It is never his fault, it is the refs, or injuries, or weird line ups or the day or the week a game is played on.  His dispostion is one of entitlement and he, at least publicly, projects fault onto others and almost never accepts responsibility for the actions of his team on the floor.  It is difficult to believe that such an attitude does not extend to off the court and does not rub off on his players, particularly those that stay around for a long time.

stephenrjking

July 11th, 2016 at 1:17 PM ^

I'm not defending Izzo as a coach or a human. I am attempting to clarify the appropriate divide in responsibility for actions. And, frankly, trying to stay free of compulsive rivalry bias. People tend to let their sports opinions color their opinions of people themselves, and I tire of that.

This is about intellectual honesty. The way a coach conducts himself with the press has absolutely no necessary bearing on how he treats his team. None whatsoever. You think Greg Popovich is as much of a jerk to his players as he is to the sideline reporters his stiffarms in every in-game interview? I don't, and the fact that guys love to keep playing for him suggests that they don't, either. 

We simply do not know how Izzo handles his players. It is possible that he basically tells them to sow their wild oats, have fun, find a fall guy, and let him know if there's something that needs to be "taken care of" by friendly police administrators. It is also possible that there is none of that, that he genuinely cares that his players live well, that he spends time mentoring and encouraging them to act properly, and that some of them fall off of the wagon.

But there is no evidence either way. And the way a guy excuses himself to the press has absolutely no necessary relationship to how he deals with his players. To suggest that one can firmly draw a relationship between the two is absurd. 

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 1:27 PM ^

is equally absurd to claim that the way a person conducts themselves in one area or his life has no carry over to the way he conducts himself in other aspects and/or the messages he is sending to those who see or view him as a leader.  I admit, part of what I said initially was half serious and certainly a product of rivalry bias, but I do (and have for some time) found Izzo to be both manipulative and almost constitutionally unable to accept responsibility in his public interactions.  I do think that such qualities could very easily rub off on his players, many of whom appear to believe that the rules do not apply to them.

See his response to Cleeves being charged.  Quote, "I am saddened for him and his family and hopefully it will all work out."  What exactly does "all work out" mean in that context?

stephenrjking

July 11th, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^

Fair point about carry over (that is certainly a significant part of what I do), but in sports in particular there is a known difference between one's private view and behavior and what is presented to the media. There has to be. And Izzo's motives for how he handles press interactions (which are taken a lot more seriously by us because we don't like MSU) may be as simple as shielding his team from more direct criticism with the help of a compliant press.

What really rubs off on players is what happens when he meets with the team after the game, not what he says to a reporter. If he shields his stars by ripping on assistant coaches or walk-ons, yeah, that is going to have an effect. But if he misdirects the commentariat to spare his environment of a press feeding frenzy while actually, fairly, addressing on-court team issues, well, that's a different story (and not unlike the press behavior of notorious grouch Lloyd Carr). 

But we don't know much about this. We, as Michigan fans, already have some experience with differing opinions of a coach's influence on players: the misinformation distributed to NFL media by the 49ers brass regarding Jim Harbaugh. Before and during the 2014 season, the evidence available was the occasional press story with "inside information" and the steady decline of the play of the team as a whole. The balance of that evidence suggested that Harbaugh had worn out his welcome, that his players didn't listen or care anymore.

Then he left, with deep man-hugs and genuine feeling. And the supposedly disaffected 49ers players quit en masse.

The point: We don't know.

Wolfman

July 11th, 2016 at 2:06 PM ^

I thought it had become unofficially agreed upon to allow coaches to mete out punishment for players according to how they deem fit because other than the sentencing judge and the respective attorneys, no one really knows more than the nead coach on just what went down. 

Now, of course, it looked bad when the media, rightfully so, claimed UM had felons playing on the football team and thought it was a joke that Carr punished them by not having them announced as starters. And well, it swas of a joke in that respect but so too was it a stretch that they were charged with a felony and the fact their records would become expunged indicates Lloyd was on top of it from the start. There was another one with Arrington, I belive, running the steps, and that too worked out just fine. 

Now it does appear odd that Dantonio does have a set of keys to the Country jail. Just looks bad. 

But as to Izzo and particularly Mateen. I watched Mateen and his buddy Robaire Smith start a bench clearing brawl in 1993 or 94 when visiting Hackley Stadium. But both teams had reputations for being quick to react. And I know Fisher would not have hesitated to take Cleaves and I think the same can be said of Lloyd as well as to his team mate. You are right, it isn't limited to one school or one college town. 

Go Blue in MN

July 11th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^

I think Stephen is just being objective here.  Was it Hoke's fault what Frank Clark did?  Would any of us be surprised if Taylor Lewan got in a scuffle in a bar and got charged with assault?  If he did, would that be Hoke's fault too?  Unfortunately, stuff like this happens to players and ex-players from every school. 

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 1:32 PM ^

but Izzo has for years been off-limits with regard to any discussion regarding his conduct and the conduct of his players.  He enjoys a free pass both for the way he conducts himself and the way his players and former players do as well.  If any other program had the kind of off-season that Michigan State is having right now in terms of conduct of their former players there would be heavy discussion regarding the culture of the program.  With Izzo, there is never even as much as a whisper.

turd ferguson

July 11th, 2016 at 2:02 PM ^

I honestly believe that if a Michigan coach had the kind of smoke around his program that Izzo has, he'd have been run out of town.  With Payne & Appling, former players saying they provided urine for other players to pass drug tests, Izzo's suspension over recruiting violations, many/most star alumni finding themselves in legal trouble, and a bunch of under-the-radar rumors about extracurriculars, both local and national reporters covering UM sports would be all over this stuff.  As a trivial example, Rodriguez was attacked for exceeding practice time limits, and Izzo basically said he was going to exceed practice time limits after an upset loss (jokingly?) and no one gave a damn.  

The guy has a free pass from the media.  My best guess is that it's because the MSU beat writers are a bunch of slappies, the national writers can't sell stories based on MSU like they can with UM, and the UM writers don't have as bloodthirsty an audience as MSU writers looking into UM.  But the double standard is real.

ijohnb

July 11th, 2016 at 2:05 PM ^

question.  What is surprising to me is that the local and national pundits have not at least turned to "character-nuetral" assesments of Izzo as just a great basketball coach but still go with "a wonderful human being" and "a complete class act" and statements like that. 

He is Teflon for real.

uncle leo

July 11th, 2016 at 1:33 PM ^

So any time any pro athlete does something bad, which is essentially every day, their coaches in college should take the blame? What about their coaches in middle school and high school? Those people probably had more to do with their cognitive growth than a college coach.

I get you don't like MSU, but blaming Izzo for this is a massive stretch.

Matt Millens M…

July 11th, 2016 at 12:37 PM ^

Tom Izzo....ugh. It's probably not his fault in this situation. Draymond is just a little bitch who kicks guys beanbags. That is has bitch move as it goes in my opinion, but Vitale and pretty much everyone slobbing on Izzos balls is annoying. He's a crybaby. Giant excuse maker.

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