OT: Apple and Privacy vs. National Security

Submitted by StephenRKass on

I haven't generated any posts lately, but there's a current hot topic I'm interested in. I'm curious for info on the privacy vs. national security questions raised in recent days, between the FBI and Apple. Here's the synopsis, if you've been living under a rock. Apparently, the San Bernardino terrorist's Apple i-phone wasn't destroyed, and the FBI wants Apple to help unlock the encryption so they can presumably see a record of calls and stored information, contacts, etc.. And (edit) Tim (not Robert) Cook of Apple is refusing, suggesting that to do this would be to create a "backdoor" giving the government access to every single i-phone out there, and all the content.

I've googled this topic, and read several articles on it, but still am unsure about what to think. Here's what I don't understand. Why can't Apple unlock the phone for the FBI and assist them in getting the data off of the phone? Can't they do this without giving the FBI software that would allow for the creation of a universal backdoor the FBI could use on everyone's phone? From what I've read, the encryption is so good that even Apple can't get in . . . it would have to write new software to be able to get in. And Cook doesn't even want that kind of software written, even if it is in-house at Apple. Is that correct?

My interest is really in what Apple can do to preserve privacy, and at the same time allow for the government to do everything it can towards national security. Is it possible, or do we really have to choose between either privacy, or national security concerns? I want to have my cake and eat it too!

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bluefrombirth

February 18th, 2016 at 10:16 PM ^

I don't believe that Apple has any real room to stand on in court with the privacy issue. The Phone was actually owned by a municipality. The lower court ruled in favor of the Govt, because it is there property, not owned by a private citizen. They should learn to pick their fights, this one is a loser,...... or  maybe Apple wants to lose this battle so they can pretend to fight when in reality they can do what all companies in telecom do. They cooperate with the government because they need the spectrum which the government regulates, and the money they give by awarding massive contracts, first Verizon had the federal govt contract for cellular service, now at&t has it you think the govt gives away billion dollar contracts without getting their back scratched. If you really think Apple doesn't have a back door into their phones then you are wearing your blinders.

Joined: 08/23/2010

MGoPoints: 284

cloudman

February 19th, 2016 at 1:01 AM ^

Let's say I have a file box, which automatically encrypts the contents, when I put things in it. The handle on the box has a simple 4 number code that must entered to open the box. If the code is entered correctly, everything is unencrypted automatically (except for any additional encryption done previously). If I entered the code wrong, I get nine more attempts to do it correctly, otherwise the box X destroys irreversibly all the contents of the box. The FBI wants Apple to remove the code that limits the number attempts allows and prevent the automatic destruction of the contents. The FBI can then easily do brute force methods of trying all the possible keys and let box open itself. That software code does not exist now, and I am not sure it can changed easily, since the system does checksums on its code to see if it has been altered. The iOS version of the phone is the current ios9, that most iPhones currently use, I.e. >50,000,000 phones. If Apple produces said software "patch" it could be applied to any iPhone with that iOS version. In addition, if the US goverment can order Apple to "open" a iPhone in their possession, ignoring the DMCA act, using the very generic All Writs Act, what is to stop China, Russia or other countries, where Apple legally sells its products, from demanding similar services by Apple for iPhones in their possession, which may have information that may be trade secrets, national security info or personal health information. Although the iPhone involved is a 5c, the iOS version is a current version and would most of the current iPhones vulnerable to simple brute force attacks. Oh by the way, once this phone is altered, it will not be able to have its system updated to newer versions; so, the change is difficult to reverse. And if ISIS uses Android phones, guess how long the FBI will take to order Google to create similar code to open the phone via a backdoor? The All Writs Acts was not meant to enable to government to supercede one's right to privacy. However, if I create the software tool to use on a criminal's property, it can be used generically for innocent person's property and make their private information vulnerable to the US government and possibly other foreign governments. That is my impression of what is at stake here.

Joined: 07/28/2011

MGoPoints: 579

readyourguard

February 19th, 2016 at 8:15 AM ^

NYPD's John Miller had a fantastic interview on CBS this morning.  He flatly stated that the FBI isn't trying to create a back door.  They secured a warrant from a US Magistrate as part of an investigation.  What they're doing is the very definition of going through the front door.

Apple is violating Don Canham's ethos: don't turn a one day story into a two day story. Of course, Apple is doing so, in part, for publicity and support from the anti-government establishment.  They could have quietly worked on the phone, gave the FBI the information, destroyed whatever software they developed to get the info, and lived happily ever after AS THE COUNTRY'S MOST PROFITABLE AND INFLUENTIAL COMPANY.

Recently, my Samsung Galaxy S4 gave up the ghost.  Rather than replace with a new phone, I activated an extra unused iPhone we had lying around the house.  As my own little way of protesting, I wll be going out and buying a new Android this weekend.  To hell with Apple.

Joined: 08/21/2008

MGoPoints: 40944

sadeto

February 19th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

I'm not an expert but I think you're misunderstanding what the FBI is asking Apple to do. The FBI isn't asking them to "give (them) the information," they're asking them to write code to allow them to circumvent the security features on the phone. That's a lot different. 

John Miller expertise is as a journalist and spokesperson. 

Joined: 01/17/2014

MGoPoints: 10469

Icehole Woody

February 19th, 2016 at 8:24 AM ^

Apple needs to challenge the Federal Judge's order in a higher court or comply.   Apple should not try to debate this issue in a public forum as they have.  To me it looks like grandstanding.  It's up to the judicial system in this country to decide such issues not Apple's executives. 

Joined: 07/03/2008

MGoPoints: 4425

Blue Ninja

February 19th, 2016 at 9:00 AM ^

I have a question that I don't believe has been asked.

Would the gov't having this ability allow them to prevent future attacks? That seems to be part of the reasoning for some but I don't believe this to be true. If information in the phone leads to other terrorists then yes it could possibly lead to less attacks but OTOH wouldn't that destroy the argument of lone wolf attackers in this case?

For future planning terrorists who have no connection to these two would this help? I don't believe it would. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't this key need to be uploaded to a phone in their physcal possession? If so this would only be a device to help with finding evidence, especially in case of prosecution but would not in fact help prevent attacks.

For that we want toa llow the gov't complete ability to access what little privacy we have on our devices. Seems fair enough.

Once the Pandora's Box is open...

Joined: 11/17/2009

MGoPoints: 5697

lolapaluuza

January 12th, 2021 at 10:02 AM ^

This question has been raised for a very long time with an edge. But to be honest, I still don't trust such "security". For my company, I found dedicated developers who were able to develop personal exclusive software to ensure the necessary security of my mobile application. I recommend that you personally take care of this. Good luck.

Joined: 05/10/2020

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