OT: Anyone do Keto?
My wife and I are starting a Keto diet. She's more gung-ho about it, at least so far, in part because her sister has had some success with it over the last couple of months. Has anyone here been on the diet before? Did you have success? Are there any good recipes you can share?
I enjoy IF as well. There are some promising studies to longterm health benefits. Much of the purported benefits are overblown yet at it's base as a diet strategy to help people limit total food intake it works. When I diet I prefer big meals at night and that is when I would often cheat. It's great with IF being able to diet and still eating a 1,000 calorie meal at night. Certainly, not for everyone but it crushes my cravings as well.
Yeah, its great psychologically. By eating a huge meal, it tricks the body into thinking its “i’m good” when you are eating. During the fasting period, lots of water will help kill hunger pangs. Bottom line, if you consume less calories then you burn you’ll loose weight. and for anyone who has trouble over eating, IF is a great way to combat it.
Congrats on your success! I'm curious if you feel this approach is sustainable long term? The reason I ask is because the overwhelming body of research suggests (the more weight you lose the stronger the correlation) that if you are only "dieting" short term and plan to eventually stop your current approach, you will likely gain it all back and then some.
I only point this out because "no cheating" is impossible to maintain long term. At some point most folks need to find a balance between eating things they enjoy and things that are low(er) in calories (because the tastiest foods are high in calories) ((this is purposefully engineered by the food industry that is in business to make money off you eating/buying more of it)). Eventually when this will power wanes many people go to a binge on all the foods they've been avoiding. So, being able to eat the foods you crave in moderation is an important part, as well as accepting the fact that foods lower in calories can still taste good, but won't taste as good as junk food (like comparing an apple to a cookie).
So, my take home point is to find a strategy that you can follow long term that allows you to occasionally eat the foods you enjoy while using the majority of the time to eat the foods that will hep you maintain a healthy body composition. This is all about coming up with a long term apporoach to eating versus "dieting".
For me, personally, I feel this is sustainable. When I use terms like "no cheating" its more for when you are starting out. Its like quitting cigarettes (which I also conquered 4 years ago), cold turkey is the best approach (and probably the hardest). I was straight up "addicted" to junk food and over indulgence. My metabolism was very slow, so I packed on lots of fat and pounds. Every other diet I've tried has failed for one reason or another. By utilizing the keto diet, and IF, I've been able to lose weight and feel healthier!
At the end of the day adherence trumps all when it comes to dieting. Consistency is more important than optimal. So, if you've found something you can follow that works for you, stick with it.
Hey. Yeah! I did it/still kind of do it. I used it to lose about 45 lbs over the course of 6 months or so. Probably the most important thing to remember is electrolytes. Get some "low sodium" salt, since it's about half sodium and half potassium. Ground beef, bacon, and chicken thighs (skin on) will be your best friends. I know of some people who have trouble maintaining ketosis while consuming dairy so you might want to try going without cheese or heavy cream to begin with, but you can slowly work it in and see what happens. I use MyFitnessPal just to loosely keep track of my macros, and remember, protein is a goal, fat is a limit, if you consume enough fat to keep you full and not hit the number you don't need to struggle to put down more fat. This keto calculator will give you a pretty decent basic starting point for your macros. Also, I don't know if you reddit or not but r/keto is a pretty active community. They have a guide for beginners in the side bar, too.
Yes, I have been doing it for about 3.5 years now.
Started using it as a training diet for open water swimming & it worked wonderfully. My energy levels were high and I quickly become "bonk proof". I lost 30 pounds of fat with no muscle loss.
It takes about 4 weeks of eating 25 g carbs for your body to hit the first adjustment milestone.
The physical adjustments continue for a few years after that. Your muscle cells will put on more mitochondria among other things and your body will adjust to burning fat for fuel. Short term, you may feel a bit tired but that passes and you'll have more energy than you know what to do with before you know it.
Fasting has become all the rage but avoid it like the plague at least in the short or mid term. DO NOT GO INTO CALORIC DEFICIT. Most people can lose weight on Keto while in a caloric surplus. I lost 30 pounds while eating ~5000 to 6000 cal/day. Going into caloric deficit while not adapted will slow down your metabolism. Once adapted, you can probably safely go into caloric deficit for short periods without slowing down because you are fully plugged into your body fat for fuel.
It's all about the insulin response and has nothing to do with caloric intake. Insulin works like a switch. When insulin is produced, it turns on fat storage and turn off fat burning. Insulin production is triggered when we eat carbs. If we keep carbs low, then we stay in fat burning mode. When we turn fat into ketones, we can just piss them out if we don't need them. We don't need to burn the fat, we can just waste it thus no need to be in caloric deficit.
To avoid feeling like crap in the first 3 or 4 weeks, eat a lot of salt or drink salty broth. Being in keto mode uses more salt than burning carbs, so some people need to up their salt intakes when they switch over.
I found my taste in food really changed radically after keto adaptation. Berries taste like candy now.
https://youtu.be/tC_qBC1EEvw <= great work on the diet being done at Ohio State
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes
This is going to come off asshole-ish. And I swear to heaven all mighty I am not trying to be. Like genuinely not at all. But it's one of those times this is going to read like I'm a douche rocket.
We really need to be careful with comments like that. The only way you lost weight is if you were in a deficit. You will not lose weight if you are not in a deficit. If someone did they would be breaking the laws of thermodynamics and changing everything we know about human biology.
We do have some studies that show people in keto lose slightly more bodyfat than those eating carbs.We have as many studies showing there is absolutely no difference. And most keto studies are short term and it's hard to control for calories and exercise. In the longest studies there are some serious concerns about triglycerides which is something we often see with people on longterm keto and have to get them off keto because of it.
People usually think they are losing weight in a surplus because they are either not calculating activity/calories correctly and the amount of water loss throws them off. On keto at maintenance level carbs I usually lose 10-12 pounds the first couple weeks which is all water.
To say that carbs/insulin is the only way you gain fat is just patently untrue. I have to be honest (and prepare for this to sound dick-ish but it's not meant to be) most of what you typed is pseudo science. We actually have a ton of peer reviewed studies and one after another we can see how keto works and how it compares to a diet with carbs. You can bulk on keto. I've bulked on a 300-500 daily calorie surplus on no carbs.
I would suggest any diet completely cutting out an entire segment of food is generally not the route I would go. That said, I'm also not anti low carb. Cutting out sugary, processed foods absolutely makes sense and many aspects of keto are great.
Now, all that being said I HAVE used keto many times. Why? The one thing we know for sure is it will curb appetite and make dieting easier. When it's time to get shredded there is nothing better as the appetite control being in keto gives you makes dieting so much easier.
We will probably agree to disagree on much of this which is totally cool but the losing weight on a surplus thing is hard science. I also realize there are many websites and "guru's" claiming you can do this. It's a great shtick to make money and advertise.
peace and love, peace and love Go Blue, this post was not meant to come off poorly if it did.
The ideas that you can lose weight in a caloric surplus and that controlling insulin (in order to burn fat as a substrate instead of glucose ((carbs)) is superior to a more carb heavy diet (assuming calories are the same) are not consistent with the body of literature on the subject.
The current body of research summarized by Alan Aragon et al. in the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) provides us 4 keys points regarding diets focused on improving body composition.
1) Diets primarily focused on fat loss are driven by a sustained caloric deficit. The higher the baseline body fat level, the more aggressively the caloric deficit may be imposed. Slower rates of weight loss can better preserve lean mass (LM) in leaner subjects.
2) Diets focused primarily on accruing lean mass are driven by a sustained caloric surplus to facilitate anabolic processes and support increasing resistance-training demands. The composition and magnitude of the surplus, as well as training status of the subjects can influence the nature of the gains.
3) A wide range of dietary approaches (low-fat to low-carbohydrate/ketogenic, and all points between) can be similarly effective for improving body composition.
4) Increasing dietary protein to levels significantly beyond current recommendations for athletic populations may result in improved body composition. Higher protein intakes may be required to maximize muscle retention in lean, resistance-trained subjects under low calorie conditions.
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0174-y
It may not align with the what you view as literature on the subject, but it does work the best.
I think you're mistaking the finger for the moon there.
On point 2, I would agree that itf eating a high carb diet / not keto adapted then the only way to lose weight is by starvation. It may result in short term fat loss but over the long term tends to make people fatter by slowing metabolism. That's why all the "biggest loser" people are now fatter than they were when they went on the show.
The mechanics on how metabolism works once a body goes through keto adaptation are very different. It follows different rules. I've tried it myself as have many other people I know. It works and is repeatable and very sustainable.
http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/
http://ehe.osu.edu/human-sciences/directory/?id=volek.1
As a S&C guy, you may find the work Jeff Volek is doing at Ohio State very interesting. The tOSU AD is starting to apply his research to some of their athletic teams for nutrition.
There is zero research out there that exists that demonstrates that low carbohydrate diets are more effective for fat loss if protein and calorie intakes are equal. That is the bottom line. This is widely supported in the literature.
The reason ketogenic diets are so popular is because people over consume carbs. There is no magic metabolic trick that makes burning fat as a substrate superior to carbohydrate. Let's look at a few points that keto supporters often cite and what the current body of literature suggests.
The proposed fat loss advantage of carbohydrate reduction beyond a mere reduction in total energy is based largely on insulin-mediated inhibition of lipolysis and presumably enhanced fat oxidation. A study by Hall et al. examined the effect of 4 weeks on a low fat diet followed by 4 weeks on a keto diet. Although insulin levels dropped during the keto diet a slowing of body fat loss was seen during the first half of the keto phase.
Another common keto claim is that the production and utilization of ketone bodies impart a unique metabolic state that, in theory, should outperform non-ketogenic conditions for the goal of fat loss. However, this claim is largely based on research involving higher protein intakes when comparing low carb diets to keto diets. A meta-analysis by Clifton et al. found that a 5% or greater protein intake difference between diets at 12 months was associated with greater fat loss. Soenen et al. also demonstrated that the higher protein content of low-carbohydrate diets (not low carb CHO content) was the crucial factor in promoting greater weight loss.
I am familiar with Volek and his work and without getting too heavily involved into that separate discussion as this was more about fat loss and sustainability I will just say that currently the literature that supports to keto approach for athletes seems 1) to be more beneficial for endurance athletes than strength/power athletes, and 2) the studies that show increased fat oxidation & aerobic capacity with keto approaches have come at the cost of increased oxygen demand (and also often don't equate protein intakes). There is also evidence that shows a higher carb intake was preferential for performance, so I think the research here is also still supporting the idea that keto is not superior.
So, again at the end of the day if you equate for protein and calorie intakes keto has no advantage to other dietary approaches. Yes, people over consume carbs. Yes, reducing carbs is beneficial as a means of reducing total calories. However, if you reduce the same number of calories and keep protein the same, keto is not superior. If it works for you great. Consistency and adherence are more important than what's optimal when it comes to dieting. But, don't fear carbohydrates as long as you're not over consuming them.
I do Kegels. But my balls still hang down like a St. Bernard's jowls.
coffee with butter is pretty tasty actually.
Just go on the MGOBLOG Website Reduction Plan. You'll lose weight fast.
Yeah, play it at the bar all the time, I was use the wife and I's birthdays plus the kids bdays, we never win though...
Pee strips. I did "low carb" a few years ago and lost 35 pounds. I found that it was hard to tell if I was in Ketosis or not. Bought the pee strips and they actually worked. I found it took a few weeks to get there and I also found that I didn't get into Ketosis while I was drinking Diet Soda. I didn't lose much weight until I hit ketosis and dropped the diet soda and then the weight dropped like a rock. I kept the weight off for 3ish years and then it crept back on over the next two or so as I didn't maintain the diet.
I highly recommend starting with cutting your carb intake to under 100 grams per day for 3-6 months before jumping into Keto.
If your going to jump in head first into Keto I’d recommend Dr. Longo’s fasting mimicking diet WITHOUT he calorie restriction for 5 days to jump start Keto. Basically 3 or 4 Avacados a day with good salt and Macadamian nuts to satisfy your sweet tooth and snaking habit.
It is makes for a easier transition to the more extreme Keto diet. Track all your food on MyFitnessPal for a couple months. It doesn’t hurt measure foods for a white to better understand what a portion actually is.
My final recommendation is to double what ever you current steps per day average is. Make a point to walk more, it won’t feel like actual cardio.
I use intermittent fasting from 10 p.m to 2:00 p.m. I busiest in the morning and I find I’m more clear and energized fasted. Black coffee and water. I can’t say how much IF has helped me with my weight loss but I personally like it.
I droppped the first 50 pounds limiting processed foods and keeping total carbohydrates under that 100 gram threshold. It came off slow and steady, but it always felt like it wasn’t working in the moment. Scale weight isn’t everything take pictures before to keep you motivated.
Keto was a natural next step for me after low carb for a solid year. I really enjoy Keto foods. Burgers, Ribeyes, smoked beef and pork ribs. So many Eggs! I eat a lot of collard greens and Swiss chard with grass fed butter and coconut oil. Cauliflower and broccoli with homemade ranch, blue cheese and French onion dip. Almonds and pistachios in moderation. Pecan and Macadamian nuts in excess. Avocados and fatty cheese if your body handles dairy well. Zevia Soda at night works well for my occasional sweet tooth.
Good luck and Go Blue!
Pee strips only show excess ketones your excreting from your body. It “works” well early before your Keto adapted because your body doesn’t know what to do with the Ketones and pees them out. Once your Keto adapted and your body is using ketones efficiently their useless.
If someone did they would be breaking the laws of thermodynamics and changing everything we know about human biology.
Here's the history. There are two different competing models of obesity.
There is the thermodynamic model promoted by the Harvard School of Public Health. This is the "newer" model.
Prior to that, the dominant metabolic theory on obesity was the German hormonal model. The energy-in/energy-out idea was not taken seriously.
Post WWII, the center of science shifted to the USA and the hormonal model lost out to the US idea due to politics, not because it was disproven. Problem is the US idea of energy-in/energy out is wrong.
I assure you, humans can lose fat while in caloric surplus. I have done it myself and know many others who have also.
Human metabolisms are highly sensitive to caloric intake so going into caloric deficit will cause metabolic rate to drop to match input levels. Over the short term, caloric deficit tends to cause weight loss. Over the long term, it causes weight gain. That's why everyone in the country who "diets" gets fat again.
http://live.smashthefat.com/why-i-didnt-get-fat/
And I have a degree in Physics from Michigan. I can assure you this does not violate energy conservation principles.
When I quit smoking back in college, I gained 20 pounds in about a year. I'm 5'4", so that was a lot of weight for me. It took me awhile, but I took it off and kept it off. The key was move more, eat less. I did aerobic activity at least three times a week, for 40 minutes each time. Lifted a few weights. Changed my diet by cutting out fried and fast food and excess fat, like salad dressings, full fat cheese, ice cream, etc....I ate carbs, but not a ton of them. And I didn't snack. The only thing I gave up were rich foods that had no nutritional benefit, like fettuccine alfredo and donuts. I would occasionally have a cheeseburger because I love them, but no fries with the burger. I became very disciplined. In fact, I ended up going to cooking school and becoming a pastry chef after I lost the weight, and I still kept it off. You just have to be really motivated and make sure you exercise regularly.
Congratulations to all of you that’s found a “diet” that works for YOU.
There is some very good advice in this thread. I’d like to add my .02. Don’t think of your new way of eating as a “diet”. it should be considered a life style. Diets and dieting are temporary. When you diet for an upcoming event (wedding, vacation, bodybuilding show), it’s temporary. When you stop dieting and resume your normal lifestyle you WILL regain the lost weight. This is true for any type of diet/eating regimen.
Successful eating lifestyles vary person to person. I struggle with carbs and do very well with fat. One of the reasons is when I eat bacon and eggs I feel satiated. Cutting out fat for me cuts out the best part of meals (my opinion).
I would suggest trying the keto lifestyle but incorporate cheat meals. I have a cheat day every other Sunday.
Good luck.