OT: American Pharoah vs Secretariat, side-by-side
Thought some of you might find this side-by-side comparison interesting ... or not, but either way here it is:
(Edit: Experiencing an embed fail here.)
Cool footage, but it is silly to compare horses simply by times.
American Pharoah won this year's triple crown races because his "times" were better than the other horses, but does that really mean that he "ran faster" than they did? One of life's mysteries.
You're right. Times are totally irrelevant. Hoof, gential, and droppings size are where you'll find who's best.
Your strange comment would make somewhat sense if either horse was a late stretcher who hangs back early in the race, but both horses were frontrunners who set the pace from the get go.
This just goes to show how great Secretariat was. He eased up in the end and still bested American Pharaoh and all other horses by nearly three seconds.
This seems to be about right. OP's comment wasn't as strange as some people seem to think. Competed in dragonboat for years and more factors in play from year-to-year/race-to-race than just strictly time. Just not really applicable in this case.
When the vets conducted the autopsy after he was euthanized at the age of 19, they were astounded by his heart. It was in perfect condition. They estimated it weighed 22 pounds, almost 3 times the size of the average horse's heart. As the commentator said at the time, he was a "tremendous machine." He was built to run, and he loved it. That's the only way to explain why he kept lengthening his lead from the third turn to the post. Anybody who saw the race live that day will never forget how he seemed almost ready to leave the track, and fly.
Talking to someone who knows nothing about horse racing!
time is just a statistic
After he was put down, and the vets discovered that his heart was 2 1/2 times the size of his competitors. That's a big engine stoking those muscles.
Not quite.
Secretariat's heart was estimated to be 22 lbs (about 2.75 times the average thoroughbred's heart), and Sham had a heart that weighed 18 lbs (died after Secretariat). Same vet did both necrospies.
Let's split the difference it was 2.625 times bigger!
The difference I was trying to point out wasn't that of 2.5 versus 2.75 but between words "competitors" versus "average thoroughbred" which are not quite the same thing.
RoanDave below did a better job than I did.
An average heart on a horse is around 9 lbs. Racehorse hearts tend to go larger in general.
Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated Secretariat's heart upon his autopsy at 22 lbs. The largest heart that Dr. Swerczek had seen prior to Secretariat's was that of Sham, Secretariat's Triple Crown rival and one of the greatest racehorses of all time. A fact that almost nobody is aware of because Sham unfortunately, came the same year as Secretariat.
Here's a link to a conversation about the genetics.
Sham is the saddest figure in history. He is arguably the second greatest horse of all time, but nobody knows his name.
He ran the second fastest Derby of all time, but nobody knows it because they only kept the winner's time officially. But his second place time to Secretariat is better than any other winner's time.
He would have been a historically dominant horse in any other year. Instead he's a footnote because of who he had to face.
What a sham...
The huge heart reminds me of Phar Lap who may, or may not, have been poisoned by the mob.
Sad for who? His millionaire owners? He's just a horse haha. I'm sure he would have rather had an extra feeding period instead of the triple crown
Yeah, I wonder if he knew?
I wonder if Secretariat went around thinking "I'm Secretariat, Bitch" or if he was clueless and just went around thinking "I wonder if it will be hay again today?"
Secretariat was a beast
History unequivocally notes that Secretariat was a "tremendous machine."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/sports_broadcasting_calls/secretariat_belmont.html
“Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine! Secretariat by 12! Secretariat by 14 lengths on the turn!”
For the true horse racing junkies, here's a longer version of the famous Chic Anderson call:
They're on the turn, and Secretariat is blazing along! The first three-quarters of a mile in 1:09 and four fifths. Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine! Secretariat by twelve, Secretariat by fourteen lengths on the turn! Sham is dropping back. It looks like they'll catch him today, as My Gallant and Twice a Prince are both coming up to him now. But Secretariat is all alone! He's out there almost a sixteenth of a mile away from the rest of the horses! Secretariat is in a position that seems impossible to catch. He's into the stretch. Secretariat leads this field by 18 lengths, and now Twice a Prince has taken second and My Gallant has moved back to third. They're in the stretch. Secretariat has opened a 22 length lead! He is going to be the Triple Crown winner! Here comes Secretariat to the wire. An unbelievable, an amazing performance! He hits the finish 25 lengths in front! It's going to be Twice a Prince second, My Gallant third, Private Smiles fourth, and Sham, who had it today, dropped back to fifth.
What is little appreciated is that Sham was a great horse and would have set track records if not for Secretariat. Its just that Secretariat was an unbelievable horse. The lead up to the Belmont in 1973 was really intense, it seemed everyone watched the race, and nobody could believe how Secretariat just killed it.
My eyes still water when I see that 1973 Belmont race. It was one of those sporting events that you never forget (Franz Klammer's downhill in the 1976 winter Olympics is another for me).
American Pharoah isn't quite Secretariat, but is closer than just about any other horse ever.
I've actually seen this on television replay before, but still wow - something like 25 lengths was the length of Secretariat's lead when he crossed the line. It is very moving in its own way.
Someone put music over the commenatry in this version, but the effect is the same.
This is one of the videos that popped up after the Belmont video. It's awesome.
The remarkable thing I never quite realized before I watched this yesterday was how Sham was basically even with Secretariat for the first minute and then Secretariat puts on the after burners and by the end they can barely keep Sham in the same shot. That horse was ridiculous.
If it wasn't for Secretariat, Sham very likely would have won the Triple Crown.
What is incredible is that yes, Sham was even with Secretariat through 1 mile at the Bellmont, with no other horses in sight. And then Sham finished last (and I think there were only 4 horses in that Bellmont).
One word: Alydar. Only horse to finish 2nd in all three races.
I bet that horse every Triple Crown race. I was convinced the mile and a half would be his. It took 3 races but I finally had to give it up for Affirmed.
I'd forgotten all about Alydar, but another excellent horse that got shut out of winning a Triple Crown race.
He had a much more succesful breeding career than did Affirmed, being considered an all time great sire within the industry ..... with all that implies.
American Pharoah posted the 2nd fastest time at Belmont ever and was still 2 seconds(!!!!) slower than Secretariat...
According to the sporting news, American Pharoah posted the the 6th best time of a winning horse (http://www.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2015-06-06/american-pharoah-tri…), but the 2nd fastest of a horse to win the Bellmont to win the triple crown.
Easy Goer has the 2nd best time at the 1989 Bellmont at 2:26.00 (Secretariat's time was 2:24.00).
So - in contrast to human sprinters - racehorses haven't gotten faster as time has gone on? Not knowing that much about horse racing, I assumed that improved training methods would have made the current ones the fastest. Interesting.
This was actually a topic of conversation on Saturday, and yes, times for horse races have been pretty much flat while human speeds are still on the rise.
and a couch-potato horse is pretty small.
Thus, the typical human has much more capacity for improvement by training. So improved human training will show a much bigger difference.
This. I would imagine the centuries worth of breeding horses for riding, traveling and war would probably make the average horse pretty athletic in general.
It's still fun to imagine a couch potato horse tho.
So, HGH has less effect on horses than humans?
Horse Growth Hormone?
The level of conditioning between race, show and timed event horses as compared with back yard/couch potato horses is profound.
Trainers, depending on the event have added strength building excercises and suppling excercises that have dramatically improved conditioning and athletic performance over what any backyard horse is capable of.
The thoroughbred by virtue of selective breeding at the top may have topped out in terms of speed over a given distance, but horses competing at the professional level are world's removed from your generic bred by accident or four generations from one shot of greatness backyard horse.
Here's an example of a real good, maybe borderline great one. I turn down the sound on this vid, you don't need it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvq4-XNEh8
Your garden variety backyard horse would blow out multiple joints attempting this.
not breeding.
I should have been more specific, but I meant to hold the horse's breeding constant. Same horse, but having lived two hypothetical lifestyles: one under training, one as a "couch potato".
I'm fairly sure it would be hard to find the horse equivalent of:
I tell people all the time, horses are just like everybody else. They get fat and soft just like we do.
To the extent that you have two horses of equal ability and training, the one working out 5/6 days a week is gonna kick ass on the one that has been standing around in the pasture or worse yet a stall everyday. You see it sometimes in the pasture where a new horse comes in from a real program somewhere and this creates a need within the herd to reestablish the pecking order. The new horse by virtue of being maybe fitter and thus quicker, slides into a higher slot for a while.
The other thing you'll see is some doormat of a horse, usually a colt, that gets put into a training program, starts getting fitter, stronger and feeling like he might be somebody as a result and he starts giving it back to some of the others that have been dominant in that particular pasture.
Fitness counts, regardless of you genus and species.
I'm not sure what the average couch potato has to do with anything?
In either case, we're talking about the elite runners of prior years vs. elite runners of today. Whatever the average person decides to do with their life has absolutely nothing to do with top end capacity of an elite athlete.
I think the point everyone is missing is that horse trainers have actually become less efficient at training horses. It's probably because the money's not there, so the better trainers have actually gone on to train humans instead.
The field appears to be much improved these days. Better competition.
is like 15 lengths. That just puts AP a lot closer to Secretariat's competition. I wonder if Secretariat was being held back with such a huge lead. Probably could have shaved another second off.
At one point Secretariat's jockey rose up a little and looked behind to check out the absurd lead he had. That probably caused the horse to slow at least a little.
Part G.O.A.T.
Though it is difficult to compare only by times (difference in weather conditions, other horses in the race, starting position, etc. would all have impacts).
I also wondered about the other parts of the triple crown.
Secretariat:
Kentucky Derby: 1:59.4 (track record) - 2.5 lengths
Preakness Stakes: 1:54.4 (.4 sec off track record) - 2.5 lengths
Belmont Stakes: 2:24 (track record; world record for 1.5 mile track on dirt) - 31 lengths (record)
American Pharoah:
Kentucky: 2:03.02 - 1 length
Preakness: 1:58.46 - 7 lengths
Belmont: 2.26.65 - 5.5 lengths
Conclusion:
Secretariat was a really fast horse.
The surface plays a big role in the final time.
Secretariat holds the Preakness record as well, at 1:53 flat. Long story, so I'll just link this article for explanation:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/sports/secretariat-awarded-preakne…