OT: Amaker's Harvard team in playoff

Submitted by PeteM on

While Tommy Amaker couldn't get it done here, he was always a classy guy.  I remember him calling his recruits, including Manny Harris, urging them to honor their Michigan commitments after he was fired.  Anyway, he is in a one game playoff with Yale today at 4 pm to get into the NCAA tournament, and I'll be cheering him on. 

Just avoid any (unlikely I hope) coaching debates -- this isn't meant to be anything otherr than a positive comment on a former coach.  I think that John Beilein may be the best coach we've ever had, and hope that he finishes his career here some time far off into the future.

ThadMattasagoblin

March 14th, 2015 at 4:05 PM ^

Yes people are stupid when things are going bad. They always claim this stuff like we should have kept rr after a 50 point drubbing by wisconsin and Mississippi state. Also John groce was a better coach than jb apparently after we lost to them in champaign. People were downright nasty to the football team last year. I try to keep level headed and not fall for the herd mentality saying that funchess doesn't care about michigan or what not.

Bando Calrissian

March 14th, 2015 at 4:07 PM ^

I don't think you're going to find a lot of Michigan fans lining up to torpedo Amaker. Nice guy, maybe the right guy at the right time when he was hired, but it didn't work in the long run for a lot of reasons that were Tommy's fault--and a few systemic and program issues that weren't. He works at a school like Harvard. I'm rooting for him.

cp4three2

March 14th, 2015 at 4:07 PM ^

Never had good schemes and didn't develop players. I would have loved to see Daniel Horton or Blanchard play for Beilein. 

Tommy Amaker might be the first D1 coach who kept his job because of his wife's importance to the university as a dean. 

Bando Calrissian

March 14th, 2015 at 4:14 PM ^

And it didn't help that he was a quiet guy who wouldn't doc things like a radio show, and was barely a public presence, while Izzo was out there 24/7 running the state. Seriously, I had student tickets for 3 years of Amaker, followed all of his team's closely, and can barely tell you a thing about him. At a program like Michigan, that just wasn't what we needed, as nice of a guy as he was.

umumum

March 14th, 2015 at 5:18 PM ^

neither humorless or quiet = nice.  A robotic coach and personality who had no idea how to adjust to his talent or how to make in-game adjustments.  I still have nightmares of Courtney Sims and Graham Brown holding the ball 30 feet from the basket waiting for something to occur--presumably the opposing team falling down en masse.

And Amaker has had more than one questionable recruiting issue since he went to Harvard.

Bonus edit:  spankings by MSU

PurpleStuff

March 14th, 2015 at 4:28 PM ^

He's won an NCAA tournament game in each of the last two years.  At a school that hadn't made the tournament since the 1940's before his arrival.

Blanchard and Horton were both 1st team All-Conference players at UM.

Amaker's time here was disappointing because the team didn't get over the hump, but it isn't like we sucked at basketball.  He had a shitty first season and a shitty third one when Horton was out.  Other than that we were a .500 team in the Big Ten.  In those days that just wasn't good enough to make the tourney (unlike in Beilein's first two tourney appearances).  The guy had 2 losing seasons out of 6 in the Big Ten.  Tom Crean has 4 in 8 seasons at IU.

The only real mistake he made here was in thinking Horton was a point guard and never bringing in anybody else to run the offense.  Most of the bitching about his "system" came down to not really having a playmaker like Morris or Burke to set things in motion.

bacon1431

March 14th, 2015 at 4:38 PM ^

Making the NCAA tournament was definitely good enough. Had he made it in his second to last or final year, he would have retained his job for sure. And people were fairly content with the NIT title as as it was supposed to be a turning point. The Big Ten was also not quite as good then as it was the past two seasons. Four of Tommy's six seasons, the conference had two or less ranked teams. The other two seasons, they had three. 

PurpleStuff

March 14th, 2015 at 5:16 PM ^

That team deserved to get in.  Finished 5th in the Big Ten, then beat #4 Iowa in the conference tourney before losing to Illinois.  The conference only got three teams into the tournament.  Conference USA got 6 bids.  We won the NIT.

If that momentum of making the tournament is able to build, then maybe things go a little differently and we get one or two extra players.  Similarly, if the 2009 team (the league only had two ranked teams again, just like in 2004) that finished tied for 7th doesn't get in, what do things look like in the middle of year 4 for Beilein when we start the conference season 1-6?

 

JHendo

March 14th, 2015 at 6:35 PM ^

I randomly ran into Lavell about a month ago and chatted for a bit (I somehow fought the urge to ask if his pro career is over and if he's back in A2 for good). Although he was very good in college, the guy had the potential to be one of the all-time Wolverine greats. He just played in an unfortunate time. I can only imagine what a big man with that much talent and a 3pt shot like him could've done under Beilein.

JWolve

March 14th, 2015 at 4:18 PM ^

It's actually weird how the basketball and football coaching changes of the past decade or so mirror each other. Ellerbe:Amaker:Beilein = RichRod:Hoke:Harbaugh Ellerbe and RichRod both recruited decently, but as people never seemed to quite fit in, had some brushes with rules issues and had recruiting practices that the university as an institution didn't love. They were both fired for Amaker & Hoke - 2 squeaky clean men, great guys, focus on academics, but never could quite do enough with the talent that they had. There was some promise based on success at smaller schools, but it never translated at this level. Despite their records, both men did a wonderful job of stabilizing the program, but were fired and replaced by Beilein & Harbaugh - 2 legends In their own regard. Focus not only on academics but on doing things the right way, and seem to be great at identifying and developing talent both with players and staff. Hopefully the parallel will be solidified by Harbaugh winning some championships in the next few years.

Bando Calrissian

March 14th, 2015 at 5:57 PM ^

Ellerbe was hired because the timing dictated it--Fisher was done five minutes before the season started, and the rest of the assistants were Fisher guys and had been around for Ed Martin. Ellerbe had been a (not successful) head coach, was barely on the job at UM, and as the last man standing, waltzed into the job. Mix a surprise BTT run, a good incoming recruiting class, and a dysfunctional AD reeling from the NCAA stuff, and you get head coach Brian Ellerbe. And then guys like Bullock ignore the signs hanging in the locker room with Uncle Ed's picture on them and keep taking cash. You couldn't make this shit up if you tried.

bronxblue

March 14th, 2015 at 6:59 PM ^

Ellerbe was kind of a goober who couldn't run a program and (not coincidentally) hasn't coached anywhere in college since he left Michigan.  RR just put together a pretty impressive 10-win season at Arizona and has been a winner everywhere except Michigan, and was trending upward when he was let go.  As others have noted, RR is more like Amaker, but only in the sense that they had experienced some success before and after they arrived at UM.  Amaker's Seton Hall teams weren't THAT good (they had one Sweet 16 run but they were bounced in the first round of the NIT in his other 3 seasons), and while he's been good at Harvard the Ivy League is such a unique basketball conference that it's hard to tell if he could translate that success elsewhere.  But credit should be given to him for that.

RR didn't "fit in" because the culture around UM after Carr was toxic to an outsider, especially one who struggled as he did with a depleted roster and mismatched talent.  Aamker was given 6 years at UM and finished above .500 in the league once.  He was a good coach, and maybe he learned at UM and took those skills to Harvard, but he was given ample opportunities to prove himself at UM and he did, well, fine.

And Hoke was a much better recruiter than Amaker, though obviously not a particularly astute coach on this stage.

I do agree Beilein and Harbaugh seem like the positive outcomes for both progressions, though I will go to my grave that RR could have worked at UM had no many axes pointed at his back as soon as he got to A2.

PeteM

March 14th, 2015 at 7:32 PM ^

While I agree that Hoke's recruiting was better than Amaker's both were good recruiters given the hands they were dealt (I would argue that even in down periods Michigan football is a bigger name) and both were good program representatives. Obviously they were dissapointments in their overall win-loss records though again both tended to do better than their overall records would suggest against rivals (Tommy split with Izzo his last 3 years and Hoke had Michigan's only wins against OSU and MSU in the last 7 years). 

cobra14

March 14th, 2015 at 4:18 PM ^

Wonder if Amaker has found a zone offense yet? Sure didn't have one at Michigan. His teams were so unprepared. Blanchard would of been fabulous in JB's system!

bacon1431

March 14th, 2015 at 4:25 PM ^

Seems like both teams choked. Harvard lost 2 of their final 4, one of which was to lowly Cornell. Yale only had to beat middling Dartmouth and they lost on a near buzzer beater. 

dupont circle

March 14th, 2015 at 8:18 PM ^

Open secret in Cambridge is that Harvard, with pressure from powerful alums including Steve Ballmer to field a competitive hoop team, has been recruiting ball players with non-Ivy credentials, giving the team the lowest academic stats in the Ivy League. Notice the roster is full of sociology aims. Tommy is sleaze.

sadeto

March 14th, 2015 at 8:57 PM ^

I don't think that is a fair description of what is going on at Harvard. "Non-Ivy standards"? No, can't happen, the Ivy League audits the Academic Index. The fact is, Harvard used to require much higher standards than the Ivy Academic Index. Now they've lowered their internal requirement, but nobody is saying they are not meeting Ivy minimum requirements. And Scalise, the AD, openly admitted it. The only person in denial about it is...Tommy Amaker. For some reason he keeps denying it.

dupont circle

March 14th, 2015 at 11:28 PM ^

Touche. Semantics. I'm unfamiliar with "Ivy League Academic Index." Please advise. From what I gather, most of his roster aren't nearly an academic fit for Harvard coursework. It's not as if the Ivy League offer any remedial coursework to hide kids in, so it's a complete sham if you let in hoopers in without the capacity. Which is what students and faculty are Harvard are claiming. Dartmouth and Brown have similar student-athlete scandals brewing.

dupont circle

March 15th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^

Ivy League schools are supposed to be above stooping too low. Standards are obviously lower, but the dialogue in the Ivy League is that Harvard's team is the weakest academically in the League. This is allegedly because billionaire alums including Steve Ballmer want to see a competitive team [by any means necessary].  That is why they keep making the tourney. 99% of the people in Cambridge could not care less about their basketball team.

PeteM

March 15th, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^

I think it's well-known that Ivy league schools have had different standards for athletes since long before Tommy Amaker arrived in Cambridge.  Former Harvard president Derek Bok acknowledged that fact a book about higher education.  I know people who wouldn't have gone to Princeton or Stanford without being able to play an intercollegiate.

The question is then not would all the basketballs have gotten if they weren't basketball players -- sure, in many cases the answer is probably no, as it is probably no for many football, hockey, tennis players etc.  To me, the question is can they handle the academics?  I would suspect that the infrastructure of tutoring etc. is less there than schools with national sports profiles.

Tim Waymen

March 15th, 2015 at 12:45 PM ^

I didn't know (or I forgot) that Amaker told recruits to stick with their commitment to Michigan. Mad respect if true. He was classy. I will not be rooting for Harvard. Harvard fans are the worst and Amaker has been shady at Harvard.