OT: ALCS Game 4 Open Thread

Submitted by Moleskyn on October 12th, 2011 at 4:03 PM

Tigers vs. Rangers, game 4. Supposed to start at 4:19, but ESPN is saying tarps are still on the field and there is going to be a rain delay (link). The weather radar doesn't look too hot (link).

If they are able to get the game in, we will see Rick Porcello match up against Matt Harrison. Both had pretty mediocre regular seasons, and both have pitched decently in the playoffs so far. Also, Adrian Beltre, Delmon Young, and V-Mart are all slated to play.



October 12th, 2011 at 10:49 PM ^

really, I feel like a Rays fan.

1) great pitching

2) batters that don't show up in clutch

3) bizzaro coaching calls


I think big V wins but then to sweep Texas at home - no way.


October 13th, 2011 at 12:21 AM ^

We're playing with our 5th and 6th best outfielders. Our DH is clearly hurt and gutting it out.  Avila is worn out. When Delmon's in the game he's still obviously struggling. It sucks, but that's what happened.


Hopefully we can take the Maggs and Penny money and go get one more big bat, hopefully a Reyes or Rollins (if the Phils don't resign him).  If Illitch wants to win a World Series, next year is the chance.  We've got the best pitching staff in the AL.  Porcello's only going to get better. 


October 12th, 2011 at 10:54 PM ^

In my mind there's 4 things that stand out.

1: Why did Cabrera try to go home? He doesn't have the speed that a guy like Jackson has, and the ball wasn't hit way deep right field
2: Why have Jackson steal? I understand we want him in scoring position for if Miggy comes up, but I think you have to trust Miggy and V-Mart together to drive 1 run in
3: Why pitch Valverde? I know he started off well, but in non-save situations he's absolutely god awful horrible
4: The big one, why walk Beltre? Not only does that put you up against a more dangerous batter, but it also guarantees Cruz a shot at bat. Beltre had no hits in the game, a bum knee, and would probably be an out


October 12th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^

I'll play.

1. You absolutely send Cabrera.  The ball was deep enough for an average speed guy to score.  Cabrera is not average speed, but you still force them to make a good throw.  A perfect throw was made.  I'd say that throw is made in time 70% of the time.  With 2 outs you're looking at a 30% chance of scoring right there or you're hoping for a basehit the next guy up (25%?)

2. Stealing gave Raburn a chance to win it.  With Cabrera behind Raburn, they'd be forced to give Raburn something really good to hit.  He's been hot, so give him the chance.

3. Who else do you throw?  Schlereth or Coke or Perry?  Go with the horses that got you there.

4. I'm 50-50.  There's reasons to both philosophies.  In situations like this, I trust that the Tigers made the decision with much more information (advanced scouting) than I have to critique the situation.  You set up the DP and away you go.



October 12th, 2011 at 11:58 PM ^

I want to risk the prospect of Cabrera not having a chance to win it for Raburn. Not sure about that. I want Cabrera up there.

Also if you're going to steal at least get a good jump. That was awful.

Finally, I don't agree that you send Cabrera home there. The RF got right behind that thing and it would have be an atrocious play to not get him out there. He didn't need a perfect throw; he needed a meh throw.


October 13th, 2011 at 1:20 AM ^

Dude, that throw beat Cabrera by a mile. The catcher had time to catch, turn, brace, and begin to lean back before Cabrera covered the final 30 damn feet to the plate. There was no justification for sending that brontosaurus lumbering down the line like he was Ricky Henderson


October 12th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^

The decision for Miggy to tag and go and Jackson to steal make perfect sense. Not really anything to discuss there. As far as keeping Valverde in, I was pretty shocked they left him in after Napoli's hit. The writing was on the wall that things were going to get messy after that.

And the decision to intentionally walk Beltre was the worst decision any manager has made thus far this postseason. Beltre was not only gimpy but had been offensively ineffective tonight. On top of that, unless there was a double play, Cruz would get an at bat. Why you would put yourself in a situation to face him after the series he's having is beyond me. Leyland messed up on that call.

Top dog 4578

October 13th, 2011 at 6:42 AM ^

Well,it's not impossible to come back down 3 games to 1..But let's face it, it's over....And while Texas is a great team I can't help but feel Jimmy Smokes got out managed again ........Bright side,Lions,Wolverines,Red Wings....Still alot to cheer for...


October 13th, 2011 at 9:35 AM ^

I know it's after the fact, but with Cabrera tagging up and going home, what are your alternatives in that scenario? I was upset when it first happened too, but if you think about it, sending Cabrera was definitely the right call. If you don't send him, you've got 2 outs with Avila up. At that point, he has to get a base hit to score Cabrera. By sending Cabrera on the flyball, you're forcing Cruz to make a perfect throw. Do you think the chances of Avila getting a hit were better than Cruz making a perfect throw? You're lying to yourself if you say yes.

With pitching Valverde, I also think that was the right call. Is there anybody else you can depend on to get outs? I was thinking maybe Coke, but I don't think he's any better than Valverde. He threw 8 pitches in the 10th, so I had no qualms with him going in for the 11th. The fact that Valverde pitched is more a testament to the lack of talent in our bullpen than anything else. We've got Benoit and Valverde who we can depend on, and that's about it.

I agree with those who have said walking Beltre was a mistake. I can see the rationale behind it (wanting to set up a DP), but take your outs when you can. Beltre was as close to a sure out as anybody in their lineup.

I also take up issue with having Porcello throw over to first so many times in the 6th, when Andrus was on base. With 2 outs, you've got to focus on the batter. Granted, Andrus has great speed, so you don't want to just give him second base, but there's no need to be throwing over/stepping off 5 or 6 times. The announcers said the calls for those were coming from the dugout, and if that's true, then that one falls on Leyland.

The call for Jackson to steal in the 9th was also the correct call. Jackson just got a bad jump. When he realized he didn't have a good start, he should have stopped and gone back to first.

Finally, it was also the absolutely correct decision to have Porcello pitch this game. He was stellar. He got screwed by bad defense (Young misplaying the ball in the corner in the 6th) and bad coaching (being told to throw over to first so many times), but other than that, he was throwing strikes, hitting his spots, mixing up his pitches and changing speeds. I think that may have been his best outing of the year. And because of that, we now have Verlander tonight.


October 13th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^

Rather than send Cabrera home in the bottom of the 8th, why not pinch run for him with 1 out and Young up?  Put Don Kelly in, and if the ball makes it out of the infield, you go up heading into the 9th with Valverde coming in for the save.  Kelly will likely come in soon defensively anyway, and with Cabrera just being up, you're not giving anything up for a couple of innings if it heads to extras.