OT 06/12 Pistons Updates
-Apparently Mark Jackson, recently hired by the Golden State Warriors, was Dumars' #1 priority. Kelvin Sampson (yes, that Kelvin Sampson), Bill Laimbeer, Isiah Thomas, Lawrence Frank, and former Detroit assistant Mike Woodson were interviewed or contacted. I also read that that Lamb and Zeke were courtesy interviews and not considered real candidates (Joe probably doesn't want to risk his and the franchise's relationships with them), which surprises me in RE: to Bill and Jackson, for the latter has had no head coaching experience on any level.
-Ben Wallace is likely coming back for another season. He is under contract, but he is 36, and his body has been banged up, so we'll keep an eye out on this one.
-Pistons have worked out, to my knowledge, the following draft prospects: PG Talor Battle, PG Kemba Walker, G Alec Burks, G Malcolm Delaney, PF Rick Jackson, G Jacob Pullen, PF Jamie Skeen, C Greg Smith, FC Bismack Biyombo, PF Tristan Thompson, and more that I will update later.
Moar to come. I'll pop back in to discuss the coaching search, potential roster changes, and the draft.
Well out of that group I would take either Pullen or Jackson(as long as he can keep himself in shape)
Monroe is gonna need a banger next to him because his game just wont allow him to be that player. Pullen I think while a little more inconsistent than some of the other guards has decent size and can play the point.
However, in the end we will take yet another euro and Dumars will have yet another failed draft.
At 25, Delfino has been a solid rotation player for most of his career, he isn't a bust. There was a couple of players drafted after him that have been better but Joe got decent value for that pick.
My point wasn't really that he has had a terrible career, but had more to do with what he did for the Pistons. During his 3 years in Detroit, he averaged 4.2 points, 2.2 rebounds, and 14.2 minutes a game while shooting only 39 % from the field and 31 % from 3. He's done better in Milwaukee, but Joe D doesn't get credit for what Delfino has done for another team. While he was in Detroit, he wasn't really that good, and his numbers tread a lot closer to "bust" than they do to "solid rotation player."
Not sure that argument is entirely fair. Delfino was a rookie playing in his first 3 seasons, of course he will be better later in his career.
A first round pick who only lasts 3 non-impact seasons with your team is not a successful draft pick. End of story.
...not b/c he can continue to put up big numbers for another team, but b/c we still don't know what all Joe D got out of the pick. Right now, he's already gotten Jerebko (fingers crossed we can resign him). If we get another value pick at 33 in this year's draft, we could end up getting two solid role players out of Delfino's pick. So far, so good I'd say...
PS: I'd straight up take Jerebko over Delfino, so I'm thrilled we get another pick too
Delfino is from Argentina, so he's not a Euro. I don't think that was the greater point though.
A close relative who worked for the Pistons in 2003 told me that Dumars and John Hammond were so sold on Darko that they would have passed on Lebron to take him. He told me this before the Pistons took Darko when I was hoping like crazy they'd take Carmelo Anthony.
Passing on him was ultimately a good thing, as bad as Darko sucked. Carmelo would have allowed the organization to stay relevant longer, but he ultimately revealed himself as a big market whore would was inevitably going to bolt.
There is little doubt in my mind that we would NOT have won the 2004 championship (or any title since) if we drafted Melo. He was extremely immature early in his career, had very poor shot selection and he needed to be an alpha dog scorer to make an impact.
Right, but that wasn't your original question. Your question was "name another euro draft pick that failed Joe." Delfino has done better in Milwaukee than he did in Detroit, but in Detroit he didn't do all that well. And last time I checked Joe D doesn't work for Milwaukee, and doesn't get credit for Carlos has done there. Delfino was a first rounder who was gone after 3 not very impressive seasons which, in my opinion, makes him a failed draft pick.
Tayshaun was a great pick, especially for where he was drafted, and I'd say Rodney Stuckey, Daye, and Monroe were pretty good, and Jerebko and Afflalo were fine.
But you can't give Joe D a pass for 2003 just because his team won a championship. That has nothing to do with the actual draft. The next 3 picks after Darko were Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade; that's not only a failed draft, it's part of the reason why the Pistons are in the hole they're in now. We also had the 25th pick that year, and selected Carlos Delfino, who played in Detroit for 3 non-impressive seasons before he was moved.
I can call the 2004 and 2006 drafts failures because, as you said, both of our selctions didn't pan out. Just because you're picking later in the 1st round doesn't mean you get a pass for making bad decisions with those picks.
The 2005 draft class gave us Jason Maxiell, who has been a decent bench player in his 5 seasons with the team, and Amir Johnson, who showed promise for 4 season in Detroit but didn't do much until he went to Toronto. Joe D doesn't get credit for what Johnson has done with another team.
In 2008, again, just because we had the 29th pick doesn't mean it's okay to just throw it away. You have to expect your General Manager to make good decisions regardless of where he drafts, and Joe D obviously didn't do that. He doesn't get a pass for making a bad pick here.
So all in all, I'd say Joe has done a pretty average (at best) job drafting in his time as Detroit's General Manager, including one draft where he took the only non-superstar/future hall of famer in the top 5.
Dumar's apparent genius has fallen off big time since John Hammond went to the Bucks. Coincidence? I think not.
Mateen Cleaves and Rodney White; and not so conveniently forgot Mehmet Okur and Brian Cardinal.
Trade back to the 18-22 and pick up Kenneth Faried. Does all the things to assist Greg Monroe like rebounding block shots. Give him one year to learn from Ben than set him loose.
<br>
<br>I say a trade like this
<br>Ben Gordon, 8th pick, cash
<br> For
<br>Minnesotas Jonny Flynn, 20th pick, and and expiring contract. We could free up quite a bit of cap space. Get a PG and C. I think Minnesota would be willing to trade with Rubio supposedly coming over from Spain.
The Jackson report is dumb and by a Knicks guy, and most people covering the Pistons have said it's bullshit.
And several guys on the last are people we are looking at in the second round.
Biyombo please
Biyombo needs some serious offensive help to be anything in the NBA. Watching some videos of him showing his offensive skillset was painful. Maybe they could consider taking him in the second round. I don't have any idea about what type of prospects will be around in the 2nd round, though, so I have no idea. Not a big NBA draft expert.
I was going to say something like "If Biyombo is there in the 2nd round, I'll cut off my legs", but that's not even necessary because he simply will not be there. NBA Draft is mostly about potential, especially in the lottery. Biyombo's name is built on the potential that his athleticism and NBA ready body offer. He's the perfect complement to Monroe, in that he has what Monroe does not (shot blocking, athleticism). His triple-double in the Nike Hoops Summit is what has most fans enamored. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM
2nd round is pretty guard/wing heavy this year, but a few bigs available will be Rick Jackson, Keith Benson, Greg Smith, Jordan Williams and Jon Leuer. Pistons could look to use one of their 2nd round picks on a PG, as the Stuckey situation is unclear and 2nd round picks dont get guaranteed deals.
Thanks for the rundown. Now that I have seen a little more of his game in a few videos he does look like a solid prospect. He looks extremely athletic in actual games as opposed to his workout videos. I guess I probably shouldn't have judged so quickly. I have little confidence in Dumars making the right draft choice anymore, but it seems like Biyombo could be a good pick.
the league in blocked shots. He played 16 minutes a game on a playoff contending team in Spain. To lead the league in blocked shots in a limited amount of minutes is very impressive especially when you consider that he's only 18(I've heard 20) playing against grown men in professional basketball league. In PER stats, he again led the league in rebounding and FT rate(though he's a poor FT shooter). He is proven in Euro league unlike Darko who barely played in Euro.
The Pistons IMO need interior toughness/defense. Bismack provides that. At worst, he'll be an elite defensive PF/C which is fine with me. Since he only played basketball for 3 years, he has a potential to be a scary player down the road. He's a great compliment to Greg Monroe with Monroe at high post and Bismack cleaning up plays/getting easy dunks from Monroe.
T-Wolves at #20 IMO. The highest that I've heard is #4 to the Cavs.
if you dont have a top 5 pick in the nba draft then your not guarenteed a starter. Biyombo has the potential to be 2004 Ben Wallace
Even if you do have a top 5 pick you are not guaranteed a starter. I believe Dumars has proved that.
History has proven that. Since Dumars has taken over as GM in 2000, seven top five picks are out of the league, and twenty more are bench players.
than Ben Wallace. His floor is an outstanding defensive player, a potential DPOY candidate down the road. His ceiling would be similar to Dwight Howard.
He's intriguing, potentially exciting and has crazy upside. I'll take that anyday with the #8 pick in a weak draft. Can't be too picky -- a superstar is not likely at that spot.
no one in the draft is going to help in the near future. Better to draft potential then, or trade out.
The only way this team is getting better near time is by trades.
Stuckey and Bynum are not getting it done.
but there are no true PG that would be worth taking at #8 overall. In a perfect world, the Pistons win the lottery and draft Kyrie Irving.
Kemba Walker is another Ben Gordon clone(not because they went to the same school) and is more of a SG in a PG body.
Brandon Knight isn't a true PG and is a very streaky player.
Jimmer Fredette is more of a SG in the next level but as a PG, he'll be a super sub that would provide a much needed scoring punch off the bench.
Alec Burks is more of a combo guard but has outstanding athleticism. He doesn't have much of a jump shot. Very similar to Stuckey coming out of college.
Darius Morris is probably the only true PG after Irving who is projected to go to 1st round. The problem is he's not worth the lotto selection. Maybe if the Pistons can "trade" back and get Morris and other players. That's a feasible scenario that I can think of.
there's always a trade in place on a condition that a player will be there at that pick. That's the thing is we're not sure where Darius is going to land in the draft. He is projected as high as #14 overall(Rockets) as low as #23(again, Rockets) with a possibility of falling to 2nd round(unlikely based what I've heard/read).
This guy
No thanks. Last MSU point guard the Pistons drafted was a colossal waste. I rate Mateen Cleaves higher on the list of draft mistakes than Darko. Everyone who's pissed off about taking Darko ignores the fact that every scout in the league would've made the same pick. I think Dumars caved to local sentiment in drafting Cleaves.
I doubt KL will get drafted.
He simply lacks the explosive 1st step even though he's a good athlete. Knows how to change speed effectively and has good quickness. He's small as a PG(may not be as tall as his listed height 6') which is a problem for a guy who lacks elite explosion. Will be defensive liability against bigger PG. As quick he is with the ball in his hands, it doesn't translate on the defensive side and tends to bite on fakes. He's a solid shooter but his accuracy goes down when pressured. Limited range as a shooter. At best, he's a mid 2nd rounder.
If he goes undrafted, Kalin Lucas will be the first guy I invite to camp, especially if we don't take a PG.
bismack...so he can lay the bitch smack
Kemba Walker
I like Walker too, but I'm worried that he won't be able to transition from a combo guard to a true point. He isn't big enough for SG. Still would be my second choice after Bismack. A true defensive force in the paint is what the Pistons need to go with Monroe. If he develops even a serviceable low post game that would probably be a top 3 front court in the league based on potential (after the Kings and Clippers maybe?).
Then we just need to hope to make the lottery again next year and land a true PG.
I like Walker too, but I'm worried that he won't be able to transition from a combo guard to a true point. He isn't big enough for SG. Still would be my second choice after Bismack. A true defensive force in the paint is what the Pistons need to go with Monroe. If he develops even a serviceable low post game that would probably be a top 3 front court in the league based on potential (after the Kings and Clippers maybe?).
Then we just need to hope to make the lottery again next year and land a true PG.
well, this year's nba draft is low on good talent. A lot of the good players are staying in school because of the potential lock-out. I say we trade out of our pick for next years draft and go after some better talent. Also, Joe D needs to make sure he hires a solid coach, i couldn't stand Kuester.