Topher

June 3rd, 2010 at 10:39 PM ^

My lady went to college in Richmond...it's a tight place for young people, although it will be damn hot and sticky - nice is you're with a woman, not so good if you're hanging out with the gang. (If I may ask, what are you going to be doing for work?)

The Capital Ale House and Richbrau Brewing Co are both to die for. Black Finn is OK, heard good things about Tobacco Company but never went there.

Try to check out parties on Belle Isle. Monument Avenue has five famous Confederates and then Arthur Ashe. The Museum of the Confederacy is cool for history buffs, not exactly something to be celebrated.

Do NOT go into Church Hill, unless driving down Telegraph in Detroit is your idea of a good time.

Tim

June 3rd, 2010 at 8:24 PM ^

It's going to be a huge pain in the ass for magistrates to throw out cases like this left and right until the decision is appealed again and overturned.

Hemlock Philosopher

June 3rd, 2010 at 9:00 PM ^

I grew up in GR, went to Michigan and now I live in ohio.  This decision is par for the course around here.  Lack of forethought and lack of common sense.  We also have red light and speeding cameras.

TIm's right - flood the courts and it won't be worth their time.  

Purkinje

June 3rd, 2010 at 9:05 PM ^

Thankfully, you always have the option of driving through Indiana instead of Ohio when heading south. It doesn't smell as bad, you don't have to mess with the construction in Dayton and Cinci, and you don't have to spend a damned dime in the Armpit of America.

Yellow Fever

June 4th, 2010 at 2:13 AM ^

With you on that one.  I went to school in Ohio, and I'm fully aware of how much it sucks.  However, I'm from Chicago and must agree that Gary, Indiana is indeed the armpit of America.  You can roll up all the windows, stuff febreeze soaked tampons in your nostrils, and it still smells like someone left a steamer on your dashboard. 

MGoDC

June 4th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^

I make the drive from DC to A2 and back a few times a year, and unfortunately going through Indiana would add a very significant amount of time to my already 8.5-9 hours trip each way.

Already got a $252 ticket in Oberlin earlier this year.... I think things are going to get worse.

CleverMichigan…

June 3rd, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^

My dad is a chronic speeder, so he's invested in a really nice radar detector- it picks up lasers too. When we drove back from AA in May, the thing was silent all through the Ohio turnpike and troopers were still pulling people over left and right. I'm still amazed I didn't get pulled over: bright colored car speeding down I-80 with NY plates and covered in M stuff.

Tom_Harmon 2.0

June 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 PM ^

The state troopers go easier on you if you're in the left-most (passing) lane.  I did 80 once past a speed trap on 23 south and I didn't get pulled over because I was passing a guy going 74-ish.  Also, Michigan gear isn't that bad, but Ohio cops really hate it when you have funny or 'clever' stickers on your car.

octal9

June 3rd, 2010 at 11:42 PM ^

This is a total crock of horseshit.

Not only that, but it sets an absolutely horrible precedent - how many other states are going to follow suit in light of something like this? I mean - really? They don't need any verifiable proof that the offender is speeding?

Its one thing to say, run a red light and get a ticket. You broke the law and deserve a ticket. But what if I already get pulled over because my car looks like it's speeding when I'm not? The last thing I'll need when I'm driving & obeying the law is an officer that hates "them damn 'modified' (obtw, it's stock sir) vehicles". It'll be a guaranteed, unwarranted ticket.

Blue Ninja

June 4th, 2010 at 1:53 AM ^

I have lived in Ohio for 17 years and I remember being in traffic court in the mid 90's and some guy got a ticket with the cop "guesstimating" his speed. The judge explained that the officer was trained to do so and the ticket stood.

Rasmus

June 4th, 2010 at 7:19 AM ^

That's not even speeding -- no radar-equipped cop in their right mind is going to nab you for that, at least no state trooper, not even in Ohio. All they have to do is wait three minutes and somebody's going to go by at 80+.

That's the big problem with this -- what was a mostly predictable system in which the police made decisions based on precise data is replaced by a mostly unpredictable system in which the police make decisions based on imprecise data. I'd like to know what this training/technique they are using actually is.

Rasmus

June 4th, 2010 at 12:37 PM ^

FWIW. I'm not a commuter, but we have to drive through to visit various family in Michigan, so maybe 8 times a year (i.e., four trips), on the stretch between Youngstown and Toledo. 

I have driven by Ohio state troopers at 70 when the speed limit was 55 on the turnpike many times. Never got a ticket. I think it is 65 all along it now, so these days I try to stay at 75 when going by them, and still haven't got one.

GunnersApe

June 4th, 2010 at 9:37 AM ^

About four years ago I driving a government plated vehicle (blue ford 250 w/ a covered bed), I'm on US-2 going from Port Clinton back to Grand Haven, MI I'm doing 80 in a 55. Yada, yada, yada I get pulled over. What the Officer doesn't know is I'm armed (Sig P229) my partner is armed (REM 870) and in the back seat are 10 brand new M14T's (along w/ 20,000 rounds in the bed) and I have one pointing right at the back window. He comes up to the window takes a step back after he see ours then looks in the back seat and see a rifle pointed at him, He almost fell over back peddling. After much deliberation he let us go (King and Country and all, plus we could have wiped out NW Ohio if we wanted) and as were pulling away my partner screams "Go Blue!". Now I know if I wasn't doing our nations business I would be telling you this story from prison.   

Captain Obvious

June 4th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^

whole criminal element here.  Pretty much any challenge of a ticket for a "guesstimation" would be sufficient to inject reasonable doubt and get acquitted.  Hell, even a pro se defendant could win here.

Tim

June 4th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^

Aside from the fact that I already made this exact point earlier in the thread, traffic citations are NOT criminal violations.

At least in the state of Michigan, a preponderance of evidence (i.e. >50% certainty for the magistrate/judge) is all that's required for the charge to stick.

Captain Obvious

June 4th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^

with a brain.  Even under a preponderance standard, winning the case would be a cakewalk.  Officer still has to prove its more likely than not that you were speeding at x MPH over the limit.  You don't have to prove anything--just defend the charge.  He will say "um, he LOOKED like he was going fast, I've seen it a lot before."  Your lawyer will point out the flaws in that method, even hire an expert to show how utterly ridiculous/poor his guess method is.  He would get lit on fire on cross, game over.

Granted, the cost in doing so might outweigh the fine (especially if you got an expert witness)...but maybe not when you consider increased insurance costs, etc.

Blazefire

June 4th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

That you can't bring a lawyer to traffic court. They're not heard by judges, but magistrates, who aren't cleared to handle lawyers, arguments, sworn testimonies and so on.

And if you want to press it on to a full court (I'm not even sure if you have that option), the costs could be in the many thousands.