Ohio State to emulate Oregon's offense
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/60771/ohio-state-offense-modeled-after-oregon
"All you've got to do is look at Oregon," Meyer said. "We're committed to it. We're still going to pop a huddle once in a while, but we're committed to it."
"I've never run the triple-option until this year," Miller said. "It's neat. There are a lot of things that go into it. I can't wait to run it."
We knew he was moving to the spread, but I thought some people predicted he wold run a hybrid for a while or mold his system to his players. Obviously, if he is fully committed to a full no-huddle spread with the triple option, there are a number of questions:
1. Does he have growing pains similar to RichRod? I know Miller can run, but the team overall is not designed for this.
2. What was all that talk to Bri'onte Dunn about using "big backs"? Doesn't that seem more unlikely in this type of offense? Is it possible Meyer wasn't up front with recruits?
3. I know Oregon had a pretty good defense one year and WVU too, but have any no-huddle spread teams ever consistantly had a good defense? Will the top defensive players in the midwest notice this?
April 19th, 2012 at 11:17 AM ^
Good luck with that, Urban.
to be fair, he's starting with braxton miller, not nick sheridan
April 19th, 2012 at 11:17 AM ^
You got fucked, buddy! Maybe Dunn can play LB?
April 19th, 2012 at 11:44 AM ^
I don't care...he is a buckeye
April 19th, 2012 at 11:58 AM ^
Dunno on that score. Triple option works best with a good inside threat. I think Dunn provides that in spades.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:25 PM ^
THe problem is, Dunn wanted to be a feature back. The "inside threat" in the Triple option is essentially a fullback, getting far fewer carries than Braxton and whoever their tailback will be.
If I were Urban, I would be insanely worried about Braxton Miller trying to do too much by keeping the ball and getting banged up. Their QB depth chart doesnt exactly scream "athleticism"... except Cardale Jones.. a true frosh. And Guiton.
One of those Jake Ryan vs. Scheelhase option pitch plays and your only viable running threat Q is concussed.
I'm not too familiar with Dunn's style, but Blount was a big bruising type of back who did very well at Oregon. I think it's a myth that you can't have a big back.
HOWEVA, I seem to recall that Dunn wanted to play in a pro style O, because that would get him better prepared for the NFL. Sorry bro.
Cardale Jones isn't really a threat to run.
Your statement seems strange because you say OSU lacks QB athleticism after Braxton Miller, Kenny Guiton, and Cardale Jones. You basically just named OSU's depth chart at QB. Those are the only 3 guys that can even dream of getting playing time next season.
I legitimately don't understand the point he/she was trying to make. The original statements says that OSU's depth at QB "doesn't scream 'athleticism'" except for Braxton, Kenny, and Cardale... That's the first 3 QBs on OSU's depth chart out of 4!
April 19th, 2012 at 12:12 PM ^
Dunn has had the best spring of any freshman. They allowed students in the other day for like inside access, and Dunn had a touchdown run of 70+ yards, among other good runs. So obviously, Meyer is finding a way to use him.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:18 AM ^
Dave Brandon's already spoken out against weed.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:18 AM ^
He did pretty well in a spread. I don't see why Dunn can't do the same.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:21 AM ^
is a good point, but I think most people on this board (myself somewhat included) would rather hold a grudge about Brionte picking them over us, so we will continue to say "He Fed up"
April 19th, 2012 at 11:24 AM ^
But, it still seems like the exception instead of the rule.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:26 PM ^
What is this "rule" you speak of?
If Minor wouldn't have been so injured all the time, he would have done real well, and he didn't even have a very good O-line.
Some people on here are being very hypocritical in some ways. There are a lot of subtle, snarky "good luck trying to run the spread in the B1G" as if RR's offense didn't work. People are looking for things to say "Dunn F'ed up" and so on and so forth. I don't know, I think OSU will be pretty good. They'll have some growing pains, but nothing similar to what Michigan had (they actually have some depth and a good returning QB).
is a sad testament. This board's like Bucknuts, but for Michigan fans.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:25 AM ^
Also see Jonathan Stewart. Oregon coaches have regularly recruited big backs to play in their system.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:51 AM ^
But Oregons offense didn't truly take off until Lamichael James who is not a very big back. Oregons recruiting didn't really take off till the Chip Kelly years so they probably took whatever they could get.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:01 PM ^
2011 they brought in Tra Carson to play as big back....who then proceeded to transfer back to Texas after being homesick.
2010 they brought in Dontae Williams to be a big back...who also then transfered back to Texas after being homesick.
While neither of these players was Blount size, very few RB's are. I think because LMJ's and Barners great success in Oregon's offense, people tend to think that Oregon only recruits these types of players, but in reality, they've recruited all types of RB's.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:43 AM ^
were much better players, IMO, than Dunn. Also Dunn seems to be slower and not as strong as either of the two.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:52 AM ^
Also, I don't think we should have any illusions about OSU's offense under Meyer. It should be very good in the near future. That doesn't mean that OSU get the best of Michigan, but OSU talent + Meyer's offensive knowledge should equal many points.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:01 PM ^
Meyer's offense is going to be very good, especially with Braxton Miller running it. Good thing we're bringing in good Front 7 players to slow it down a bit, eh? I'm nreally interested to watch this play out.
You're only saying that because he didn't come to Michigan.
You know how many yards Blount rushed for under Chip Kelly? 82 yards total.
You know how many games Blount played under Chip Kelly? Three. He had a total of 22 carries. Not a very useful data point.
When Blount rushed for 1,000 yards in 2008. Chip will use big backs and I assume Meyer will too.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:20 AM ^
This doesn't really make sense. Oregon is not a triple-option team. Also, their QB is much more of a passer than a runner - it's the tailback who carries the load in the running game in their offense. This would seem to go against everything Meyer has done up to now.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:26 AM ^
Sounds like he means a tempo like Oregon... like super-fast no huddle. I think trying to add that tempo and the triple option all at once will be interesting to watch. Too bad we don't play them earlier in the season...
April 19th, 2012 at 11:28 AM ^
Their QBs have been effective passer primarily because the offense gets people very open. The thing that they do that Rodriguez never got around to taking advantage of is dictate pace.
It's true that they get more production out of their RB (for several reasons), but their QBs are still run-first players. They just don't NEED to be used that way as often as guys like Denard because of how well-developed the system (and talent) around them is...it also keeps them a little healthier and fresher.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:37 AM ^
Their QBs are not run-first players. Last year Darron Thomas carried the ball a total of 56 times (which includes sacks/scrambles) and attempted 339 passes. Only once all year did he carry the ball 10 times in a game. Here are his stats:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/378502/darron-thomas
Chip Kelly likes to have a QB with some mobility, but he has never used the QB as a focal point in the running game the way we have with Denard, and Meyer always has with his QBs.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:04 PM ^
Despite how they are used, their abilities as runners are better than as passers. Dixon, Masoli, and Thomas have not been particularly accurate or impressive passers. They're effective because they have people wide open. Oregon's system doesn't need a super accurate passer, they do need guys who provide a constraint as a run-threat. The same thing Michigan needed from RB before Toussaint emerged.
The primary reason why he doesn't carry the ball a ton is: have you seen their RBs?? Oregon's offense is focused on talented RBs running the ball. The QB acts as a constraint. Given how much focus goes to stopping the RB run, the pass game is the primary constraint - but QB run has to be a threat too. Also, Thomas (and Dixon too) is a guy with slight build who can get banged up easily. Masoli was a bit different because he was a good interior runner. Dixon and James were both better going outside, so their skills were somewhat redundant. You'd rather give the ball to James, so Dixon got it less.
Dixon's a better runner than a passer but got used more as a passer, because that's what is best for an offense with James and Barner at RB.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:11 PM ^
What is your basis for the claim that Thomas's primary skill is running? His skin color?
We're talking about a guy who carried the ball (including sacks and scrambles) four times a game last year. In 10 of his 13 games last season, he had fewer than 20 net rushing yards. The idea that defenses were focused on stopping him as a runner is farfetched, to say the least. Oregon's offense was more like Oklahoma State's than Urban Meyer's.
BTW, Dennis Dixon never played for Chip Kelly.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:22 PM ^
That is my basis.
I said defenses were focused on stopping the run game - not the QB run. Specifically, James and the outside run.
Kelly was Dixon's OC. You stand corrected.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:35 PM ^
You must not have watched much of Oregon if Thomas reminds you of Denard.
You're changing your argument. You stated above that Thomas was a better runner than passer. I motion that a guy who passes 339 times and runs (including sacks/scrambles) 56 times is not a run-first player, and no coach would utilize a run-first QB that way.
Kelly and Dixon were together for one year (2007). Kelly did not recruit him, nor did he then run the offensive system he does now. It was the Belotti offense.
I didn't say Kelly recruited Dixon, nor did I say Thomas reminded me of Denard. I pointed out Denard had good passing stats in Rodriguez's spread. The similarity is that they all played in systems that produced opportunities for low-skill passers to produce impressive stats.
Before Kelly, Dixon threw 12 TDs and 14 INTs. With Kelly, he threw 20 TDs and 4 INTs. His avg went up from 6.7 to 8.4. That should give you a ballpark estimate of the degree to which Kelly's system can inflate passing statistics.
Thomas is a better runner than a passer. Thomas is used more often as a passer. These are not mutually exclusive.
False.
The moment Kelly stepped on campus the Oregon offense changed. It had already begun to change with Belotti adjusting his system to Dennis Dixon; they ran the pistol as their primary offense the year before Kelly came in. Once Kelly was in place the familiar inside/outside zone read structure was in place. Further, Dixon transformed from an enigmatic not-entirely-reliable running QB to a guy who would've won the Heisman if he hadn't blown his knee out.
Thomas is not a spectacular runner, but he is good enough to draw a defender on the zone read option, and that is the key issue. As long as he occupies a defender, the speed running backs get lots of space to run and the defense gets burned.
Exactly. Thomas doesn't have to be Denard. He just has to be not-John Navarre. As long as he can run somewhat well, he's a constraint on the D and they have to defend him as a runner.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:13 PM ^
He sprays the ball around a little bit, but these are his stats from last year:
|
Attempts/Completions: 211/339
|
TD/INT
33/7 |
YDS
2761 |
Rating
158.7 |
April 19th, 2012 at 12:33 PM ^
was 149.6 his sophomore year. I don't think he is considered a great passer.
If you gave Rodriguez Oregon's players and put them around Denard, Denard would have run less than he did at in 2010.
Context matters.
Furthermore, despite his strong stats, NFL scouts continue to very much doubt Thomas' passing skills.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:36 PM ^
I'll give you that, but a TD/Int ratio of 33/7 is pretty darn good when you're playing in a BCS conference...Also, he's nothing special as a runner.
He's not a special player period, but he's an above-average runner and a below-average passer, IMO.
I'm not disputing his productivity, I'm arguing it's a result of the system, not his skills. His backup was a freshman who did just as well, if not better, statistically.
April 19th, 2012 at 12:38 PM ^
You're stretching credibility here. Denard had a TD:INT ratio of 18:11 as a sophomore. They are not comparable players. They have different skill sets.
My point was not Darron=Denard, it was that good passing stats don't necessarily mean good passing skills.
It's fine that you don't want to believe me about Thomas, but you might read some other objective analysis rather than blindly pointing to stats.
e.g., http://autzenzoo.com/2012/02/18/darron-thomas-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
As the article says, Thomas is a good 'game-manager'. He makes smart decisions. It helps that he's been in the same system for 4 years, under the same coach. Thomas had 2 years on the bench to watch and learn. Comparing him to a very raw sophomore Denard or a junior Denard facing a coaching change, isn't especially insightful.
I live in Oregon. I'm not a fan, but I watch a lot of Ducks football. Thomas is not a good passer, he's just in a really good system that lets him make easy throws. He has some passing skills, but they are unexceptional. He IS a legitimate run threat, above-average certainly, but not nearly on the same level as Denard or even Dixon, and certainly doesn't compare to De'Anthony Thomas and LeMichael James caliber runners.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:40 AM ^
its hard to push tempo without mature bodies or experience
April 19th, 2012 at 12:18 PM ^
Tempo was the piece that was still in development for the offense...that and having a returning starter at QB. The offense was still ramping up, but the other side of the ball wasn't showing the same trajectory.
April 19th, 2012 at 11:22 AM ^
Urban Liar...I sure hope these kids see the way he is just leading them on and lying to them about almost everything. Dunn has to be killing himself thinking of what could of been..
April 19th, 2012 at 11:27 AM ^
Don't be "that" guy.