Officiating: IU Holding/False Starts/Targeting

Submitted by Bigku22 on November 15th, 2015 at 12:07 PM

I don't blame officiating for any result, and don't want to be that guy.I believe bad officiating is something both sides have to deal with. However since we won I feel this can be more objective. There are thee points I wanted to discuss and gauge reaction. 

1) IU Offensive line holding. Indiana got called for holding one time in this game. (in the first half) I know their O line is very good and we got mauled up front. But in the 4Q and OT literally every Howard run to the outside, I watched the line, multiple cases where they were just grabbing our defenders, tackling, no calls. They set the edge on every outside run by grabbing our edge defender and not letting him outside. I saw coaches screaming for holding, and the broadcast mentioned it once. I guess we didn't get called for it either, officials just letting them play. Maybe im biased, have to review the game again, but I thought it was pretty blatant. 

2) I've seen this mentioned on the board last night and today, IU O-line looked to be starting early almost every snap. They got called for multiple false starts, but literally almost every play they had some type of movement. In both cases the holding and false starts, I guess if you can get away with it, than why not. 

3) The ejection rule for targeting needs to be eliminated immediatley, if not the entire rule itself. It's the most subjective, poorly called rule in football I've ever seen. The difference of impact between the Bolden targeting ejection vs MSU, and the hit Rudock took yesterday is expontential. If they want it to be a personal foul penalty I guess that's fine, but the impact of ejecting a player on a call that is accurate MAYBE half the time is absurd. 


Ivan Karamazov

November 15th, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^

As a former youth baseball umpire I tried my best to refrain from letting the gripes about balls and strikes get to me. It definitely got easier to tune them out as I got more experienced, and got to know the coaches as the seasons progressed. Also if it's the second game of a double header the strike zone definitely widens proportionally to the amount of walks ;)


November 15th, 2015 at 2:12 PM ^

and had an older brother that could pitch his ass off (but oddly not throw a football as well), I was given one chance to pitch despite my own reservations. I walked so many kids that by the time I walked in 2 runs (!) the strike zone was as tall as the batter and 4 feet wide lol. I never pitched again, to my delight (I was a speedy outfield demon). I could throw a baseball fast but never accurately. The ump bailed me out but not after constantly asking me if I was "kidding him" haha. He was around 18-20 years old and the ump stood behind the pitcher at that age. I heard about my pitching skills every time I'd drop a dime to a WR or rope a football into a window smaller than a strike zone (and over a mountain, of course). It's all my friends had to rib me with but it worked. I still have nightmares. Ump bailed me out but took way too long.


November 15th, 2015 at 12:32 PM ^

what needs to happen for Rudock to get a targetting penalty called in his favor? He's taken at least 4 or 5 headshots this year with no call.

Yesterday he was clearly going down to slide and the IU defender still dove on his head. FFS the targetting rule is infuritating in its stupidity and inconsistency


November 16th, 2015 at 4:01 PM ^

The thing is... college football ain't the NFL.


Sliding doesn't immediately make a QB a protected player in college as it does in the NFL. In college you aren't down until you actually touch down - sliding is no different than any other play... so a sliding QB whose butt/elbow/etc. hasn't yet hit the ground is a perfectly legal target in college football.


"The rules of college football define nine defenseless players-from a punt returner awaiting a kick to a player who has been ruled down. A quarterback in the process of sliding isn't one of them. In fact, making contact with the quarterback's head in that situation is often perfectly legal as long as the defender doesn't lead with the crown of his helmet."




November 15th, 2015 at 1:25 PM ^

Trying to put the Homer ism aside but jeez, that hit gets flagged everywhere but not for Jake seemingly. Beyond the new targeting side refs have been flagging hits to a QB giving himself up for generations. Somebody ask Harbaugh a question about it Monday to see if he will go off on the pathetic B1G refs.


November 15th, 2015 at 12:15 PM ^

Wwill be very curious what the UFR shows, but there were numerous times Jordan ran into a pile and got hung up a second and then squirted through.  I am yelling at the screen "tackle him!!" It appeared our linemen could not disengage or get their hands free, ever.  Also on some of the runs off the edge, Wormley especially could not disengage.

This could be great ol coaching or holding, or somewhere in between.  But it was extremely noticable.

Yes this could be sour grapes, but I have never seen it this bad.  That being said IU got screwed on a lot of calls too. That offensive pass interference was a life saver for us.  Terrible call.

Also on a different note, I can't remember a worse 15 minutes that the third quarter.  Man it started bad and just kept getting worse, penalties, missed field goal, etc....  Terrible play call to open the second half.  Just terrible.  Maybe they saw something at half time, but that play took the wind out of the team and then the punt return, yeck.  

One of the few times, the coaching noticably aggravated me. 


November 15th, 2015 at 2:44 PM ^

It's at least partly Wormley's fault. He'd take off to the inside then couldn't make it back to the outside to seal the edge. As an edge defender, whether there's a little hold or not, which to me it looked like the defender's hands were inside his shoulders but gripping him, it's his job to contain the edge at all costs. Just infuriating to see him let IU outside again and again.


November 15th, 2015 at 12:15 PM ^

Indiana was holding on those outside runs but they had some really good blocks, but one holding call for the game is a joke. However like you said on almost every play the line was getting out of their stance a split second before the snap which is enough to gain a big advantage and I'm disappointed the refs didn't do something about it as it was glaringly obvious at times and they seemed to shrug it off as being close enough.

Ghost of Hoke

November 15th, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^

I was at the game midfield about 50 rows up. Once it was obvious we weren't stopping anything on defense. I started watching the line more than the ball. Our DE's were getting held on almost every single play. Any outside run they had, there was a hold somewhere.


November 15th, 2015 at 12:19 PM ^

It wasn't real blatant until late in the game when they realized nothing was gettig called, so they just started grabbing and tackling our D line. I guess why not if you can get away with it, it's on the officials to at least call one holding to try and keep play in check. 


November 15th, 2015 at 12:17 PM ^

I agree with the holding. I think it partially explains absurd number of runs where you expect the RB to be bottled up and then he somehow squirts out of the wash. Most of these weren't RPS runs. It's weird how absolutely no one could run on our defense earlier in the year and now we're getting gashed. It's not all on Glasgow's absense as we saw some of that against Rutgers as well.  Some runs were truly just missed tackles by our guys.  Did someone (ahem MSU) identify how to get away with holding our players and not get caught?  Cause it did look like Indiana put that strategy to good use many times.


November 15th, 2015 at 12:18 PM ^

They clearly need to SPECIFICALLY and THOROUGHLY create and define the rules for sliding quarterbacks.

Rudock's been hammered twice trying to slide. 

It's not just from watching Michigan, but clearly a "sliding" quarterback is MORE VULNERABLE if he's hit WHILE SLIDING as opposed to JUST DIVING.

For one, a sliding quarterback SLOWS DOWN in order to initiate the slide, because the feet have to go from behind/beneath the center-of-gravity to in front of the center-of-gravity.

Second, their head drops to the exact point that would be a hip-and-wrap-up tackle (re-popularized by the Seahawks), making nearly every tackle of a sliding quarterback a head-shot of some type.

Even then, I've seen (with multiple quarterbacks each week) taking head-shots from the diving defenders hips and shoulders.

It either has to be, they can't be touched if they slide (akin to the protection for a fair-catch fall), or they need to coach these quarterbacks to go down earlier. Which they will NEVER be able to see/account for the man behind/beside them. Which is exactly why Rudock got destroyed in the Minnesota game.

Until they change the rules, I would never advise a quarterback to slide. You're currently putting yourself in an EVEN MORE vulnerable position.

It's too risky.  


November 15th, 2015 at 12:48 PM ^

QBs often try to maximize yards gained, particularly on 3rd down and/or late in games and start sliding after a defender has already started initiating their tackle and cant stop their momentum and they should not be penalized for that, however it seems that defenders in that position often do what I call "torpedo-ing" which is diving head first and leading with their shoulder or helmet rather than a safer wrap up technique with arms out and head up seeing what they are hitting.

Looking at Bridgewater getting knocked out last week, he slid too late to avoid contact, but the tackle attempt is reckless. This type of tackle attempt is very common now, and it is not only dangerous for both players, it is also less likely to stop a ball carrier than a wrap tackle. If football wants to be serious about making the game safer I think this form of tackling should be banned.

Sione For Prez

November 16th, 2015 at 3:18 PM ^

why college quarterbacks slide. Just put their head and neck in the line of a streaking defender to bounce their head off the turf like a basketball. Some of the scariest football hits I've ever seen were on sliding quarterbacks (Gunner Kiel earlier this September comes to mind). Just dive and get your butt on the ground ASAP.


November 16th, 2015 at 4:06 PM ^

"They clearly need to SPECIFICALLY and THOROUGHLY create and define the rules for sliding quarterbacks."


They do.

In college the rule is -

1) A sliding QB is NOT a defenseless player

2) A sliding QB is NOT down until he touches down with a body part that counts for that

3) Because of his choice to slide, it is often LEGAL to hit him in the head as long as it is not "targeting".


College QB's should not slide. It is a useless imitation of the NFL that because of the differing rules puts them in a more dangerous situation.



November 15th, 2015 at 12:21 PM ^

The late hit on De'Veon Smith, where his helmet got knocked off was the definition of targeting.  It was the play where he was stood up and #33 came in from the frontside and speared DS in the head, knocking his helmet off.  A lesser man would have been knocked out. These ejection reviews should be coming from the booth, not by some bozo trying to interpret the rule in a split second.

kevin holt

November 16th, 2015 at 2:13 AM ^

Yeah, #30 Dutra came in with his shoulder lowered and speared Smith in the head while being held by the pile. then when Smith is on the ground in pain, Dutra is clearly talking trash and the refs don't make him leave the area. then he gallops a little bit and pounds his chest like he fuckin' did something. I took screenshots and I'm seriously considering sending it to the Big Ten because that whole sequence made me fucking livid. Dutra you are seriously a piece of shit and I hope you feel great about all the almost-wins, asshole. Pound your chest when you actually do something.

Blue Koolaid

November 16th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^

Yup this play pissed me off too. That was an obvious spear on a held up defenseless player and they called nothing. I want to bash Dutra with a bat thumping his chest like that on a dirty hit. The B1G refs need to be fired and hire a whole new bunch cause these guys are terrible. Can the B1G office review that and suspend a player for that? I have watched it many times and that is a dirty helmet to helmet spear.

There were a lot of bad calls on both teams I agree so some of it evened out. However the holding was stupid, the number of times a D lineman was trying to pull away and couldn't was just stupid.