Officiating Crew Tomorrow?
November 24th, 2017 at 8:26 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:41 PM ^
The alternative is to have a floating pool of officials that are pieced together week-by-week without any experiencing working together. If you think officiating is a mess now, can you imagine what that system would result in?
The results of the game made everyone go crazy, and delve into the background of each referee to try to make sense of it. When people happen to find that 2 of them (Bob Sagers and Kevin Schwarzel) were from Ohio, they started foaming at the mouth like they just discovered the conspiracy of the century. Yet, nothing was said about the ref who actually made the most controversial call (The Spot), head linesman John Weircinski... why? Probably because he is from Grand Rapids, MI and it didn't fit the narrative that had been built.
I get it, the tinfoil hat gives people comfort, but after a while, it does get tiring to hear the excuses, and I much rather just win.
November 24th, 2017 at 8:50 PM ^
They weren't just "from ohio" they were self proclaimed ohio state fans. There's a pretty obvious difference and you dancing around this multiple times leads me to believe that you know it and are ignoring it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
And what do you mean the alternative is to piece it together week to week? You can still schedule it in advance and not schedule a fucking fan of the team to ref those teams games. You don't think that theres a massive conflict of interest with scheduling fans of teams to ref those games?This league makes millions upon millions of dollars but can't handle hiring refs from outside its fandom? Absolutely absurd.
And, no, it wasn't just that there was one controversial spot. OSU had literally zero penalties. If you go back and watch the video that was posted a few days ago you'll see multiple instances where BLATANT penalties are committed by OSU directly in front of the ref while the ref is staring at it.
Your entire argument is based around repeatedly ignoring evidence and it's ridiculous.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:33 PM ^
I am not disputing that the calls and no calls went in OSU’s favor especially on a few critical plays.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:40 PM ^
Ahh, well, my mistake on that one. I had heard that since the night of the game, pretty sure it was on ESPN.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:43 PM ^
Yes, one of them, Kevin Schwarzel gave an interview over 10 years ago about being an Ohio State fan, which is unfortunate, but also not some smoking gun of conspiracy. People said that Schwarzel was barred from officiating Ohio State-Michigan games in the past because of his fandom, but provided no proof of it. The B1G even said that they don't take officials off games just because of their state of residency, either your crew is assigned the game, or it is not. Schwarzel has been a B1G ref for 10+ years, and in that span, he has probably officiated multiple Michigan and Ohio State games without his fandom being a factor.
If you dig deep enough, I am sure you will find that many B1G referees are fans of specifc B1G teams. Why would you make a career out of being a ref if you didn't love the game in the first place? How many of those refs from Michigan were fans of Michigan growing up? How many of refs from Pennsylvania are from fans of Penn State?
An example of confirmation bias is this video that circulated blamed Bobby Sagers as the ref that patted Mike Weber. For no reason other than Sagers is from Cincinnati, OH and had the galls to be elected into the High School Hall of Fame, clearly proof that he is a rabid Ohio State fan... Except Sagers was the side judge for that game, and the one who patted Mike Weber was the line judge, Brian Bolinger of Fort Wayne, IN.
Am I claiming that the game was well officiated? No, there were definitely blown calls and were detrimental to Michigan. Do I believe that the missed calls were a result of purposely biased officiating because there were refs from Ohio involved? No, I don't, I think they were just plain missed calls not unique to 1 particular game.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:45 PM ^
What does loving the game have to do with reffing games of the teams you are fans of? I don't think any fan of any team should be able to ref their own teams games, it's a huge conflict of interest. No, I don't want Michigan fans reffing Michigan games, that shit would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
The greater problem here, conspiracy or not, is the quality of officiating. The league makes so much money but can't hire people that even know the rules? Can't hire people that aren't fans of the teams they are reffing? Look at the wisconsin dpj-td that was denied, there is no way that any person can honestly call that anything but a touchdown.
It's a problem that plagues the entire sport and it's not a small problem that happens from time to time.
November 24th, 2017 at 10:15 PM ^
From a logistics standpoint, if the vast majority of your games are in the Midwest, then the staff (i.e. officiating crew) hired are probably also from the Midwest. Pretty good chance that those same people grew up rooting for teams in the Midwest (i.e. B1G teams). Believe it or not, people can successfully separate their personal lives from their work lives. If not, I doubt it takes over 10+ years for a biased official to be caught.
The quality of officiating is close to as good as it can get with the human eye. Fans get the benefit of viewing everything retrospectively in slow motion. Officials, on the other hand, have to observe 22 players while remembering literally hundreds of pages of rules before make a quick judgement call. The old adage that you can potentially call holding on every single play is pretty close to true, but people would boycott the game if a penalty was called every single snap for a 8-hour long game. So unfortunately, the officially have to be a little subjective in what warrants a call, and what does not, and that decision has to be made in the span of 3-5 seconds.
Anyways, the original point of this conversation was that Michigan has somehow been systematically targeted with biased officiating over and over. That for some reason, the B1G chose to assign an Ohioan-heavy officiating crew to screw over Michigan last year. When the truth is probably a combination that Ohio State was consistently been one of the least penalized teams in the last 4-5 seasons, and the officials are not perfect/human.
November 24th, 2017 at 11:45 PM ^
November 25th, 2017 at 12:09 AM ^
Not a one-to-one comparison, but remember the 2012 Referee lockout for the NFL? Before that, people used to bitch and moan about officials and how they are literally the worst at their job. Then fans got a taste of the "replacement refs" for 3 weeks, and collectively realized how hard the job can be, and the true floor of officiating quality.
People like to act like the officiating is easy peasy, but have you ever tried tracking every single player from a set angle on the field? It is pretty hard to keep track of that many moving pieces at once.
November 25th, 2017 at 12:09 AM ^
nobody would give a shit where the officials live. But when every questionable call went the Buckeyes way and Michigan got hosed on similar ones, people start to become curious about intentional bias. And then there was both visual and residual evidence suggesting bias, which the conference was forced to defllect or ignore in order to preserve integrity of ttheir officiating
I can tell you as an official, that you are specifically warned never to show favortism in a game to any player even though generally you are trying to maintain a friendly atmosphere to manage the game and keep things from being too competitive.
For all the general reasons not to get upset about officiating, these guys broke all the rules in that game. Every iffy call went the Buckeyes way. They were called for a single penalty in the final minute of the game.
The consequence has been that that crew while it may have been highly rated last year, has done one Michigan game this year, and it screwed it up. Dan Capron's crew worked the Michigan-Minnesota game and ejected a player the league then reinstated for the Maryland game because he never did anything to warrant removal from the game.
The only reason Capron decided to eject him was to show his crew was in control of the game. That is pretty lame reason for punishing a player because you are afraid your afraid your crew can't maintain conrrol.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:05 PM ^
Do you really believe that OSU played such a clean game to be worthy of no penalties? None? Take a look at the fanny pat and then maybe a clip of Urban trying to incite the crowd while Harbaugh gets a basketball fine. That's not even scratching the tip of the iceberg, I'd just like to hear you defend those points without resorting to insults or generalizations.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:28 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 9:30 PM ^
We aren't the team, we are fans of a product. We have ever right to complain about faulty products.
November 24th, 2017 at 10:24 PM ^
The refs didn't throw the interceptions. They also didn't score 0 offensive points in the first half and do inexplicably stupid things like call a fake punt from their own 27 yard line. Michigan outplayed OSU and had the game ripped out of their hands by the officials. There's no denying this.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:29 PM ^
He can't, his entire premise is ignoring evidence and repeating the "all teams get screwed" trope. Which is in complete denial of the one actual game being discussed.
Like some random sec or pac 12 team getting screwed over in some other game has anything to do with it.
November 24th, 2017 at 8:51 PM ^
Get you and your logic out of here!
Michigan fans are already compiling excuses for tomorrow. This ref thread is just another one.
The best Michigan team in a decade went 10-3 in 2016 due to the offense failing when it mattered most.
The same issues are now excacerbated for 2017.
November 24th, 2017 at 9:22 PM ^
It's "logic" that the only alternative to not having fans of teams ref those games is to piece meal reffing crews together the week before?
November 25th, 2017 at 4:57 AM ^
Good thinking, math boy!. /s
Now why don't you fire up the DVR and watch the effing refs WIN THE GAME for OSU in 2016? This is NOT an excacerbation!!!
November 24th, 2017 at 9:26 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:39 PM ^
November 25th, 2017 at 4:51 AM ^
Over? Over? It's NEVER over unti WE decide it is!
November 24th, 2017 at 8:03 PM ^
FH, you're just a posting ninja. As for refs, I'm not HOLDING my breath, or HOLDING out hope that they won't be HOLDING the game up.
November 24th, 2017 at 8:57 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:20 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:22 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:41 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:46 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:53 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 8:52 PM ^
I need some Mo belly rubs tomorrow!!
November 24th, 2017 at 9:11 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 9:18 PM ^
Watch, I bet we actually get a homer whistle tomorrow as a little makeup for last year - though it probably won't do us much good...
November 24th, 2017 at 9:44 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 9:52 PM ^
November 24th, 2017 at 10:33 PM ^
"Nice and firm. Just the way I like my barely legal asses!"
November 25th, 2017 at 12:19 AM ^
not acceptable on any level and for the very reason documented here because it suggests bias on part of the official regardless of why he's doing it.
I mean your job as an official in any sport is to maintain a businesslike approach with players while remaining vigilant about their behavior and keeping them disciplined. But you don't fraternize with a player or coach during a game because it can be witnessed by others and the intention of the action can't be deciphered, so it just appears one-sided, biased and thus negative to the work of the officiating crew.
November 25th, 2017 at 12:53 AM ^
November 25th, 2017 at 6:55 AM ^
November 25th, 2017 at 2:13 AM ^
Dan Capron's crew (from the OSU game last year) officiated the Iowa/Nebraska game today, so at least it won't be him. Hopefully it won't be the O'Neill crew, but for some reason, they always seem to get big games.
November 25th, 2017 at 4:49 AM ^
I will take ANYBODY'S crew rather than OSU fan Capron's. Not that his fandom affects the way he calls the game...
I have this funny feeling that he is incompetent wherever he goes.