Oak Park 5* OL Justin Rogers leaves Michigan off top 13

Submitted by Bluey on June 6th, 2018 at 9:29 AM

That's now the third 5* in state OL that won't be going to Michigan. What an incredibly wasted opportunity to fix the biggest need inside the program. I don't know how this is something that people can just gloss over anymore. In state recruiting is broken and has been since Wheatley left.

If they can't land Lance Dixon (coach is an alumnus, plays a huge position of need, in-state, dad is a UM fan) then that means UM will only have landed 1 of the top 5 players (assuming they get Mazi Smith) in state. That's it's year 4 and we are having these discussion about Harbaugh's recruiting is not something I would have ever imagined when he was hired.

Comments

WeimyWoodson

June 6th, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^

Yeah its a little strange, but if you look at it there hasn't been a whole lot of development for the o-line yet.  It will probably change with our new oline coach.  2020 is a long ways away.   See what happens after this season.

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 9:40 AM ^

Summer recruiting rankings are like September Heismans, they don't mean anything. Based on where UM sits with many of their top targets they will be incredibly lucky to even finish inside the top 10. The strength of the class is based on two kids who committed almost 12 months ago, and one might leave for Stanford. UM hasn't signed a top 100 recruit in either the 2018 or 2019 class since then. I would love to be wrong and eat my words, but pretending their hasn't been a steep drop off in recruiting since the 2017 class is disingenuous. 

docblueburg

June 6th, 2018 at 9:56 AM ^

I remember back in the day when it was hard to tell the difference between a troll and a disgruntled fan.  Back when trolls took pride in their trolling.  Those days are gone & we're left with trolls like bluey.  It's kind of sad knowing this is the best the trolls have to offer.  :(

mGrowOld

June 6th, 2018 at 10:04 AM ^

Why is somebody pointing out a problem considered a troll?  What did he say that wasnt true?  What concern that he expressed isnt a legitimate one?

It KILLS me that anybody saying literally anything is a problem is met with "he must be a troll", not "I wonder if what he's saying has merit or not."  Are you happy with our recruiting right now?  Do you look at last year and think "man...this is EXACTLY what I was hoping for with Harbaugh.  A slew of 3 star players and 22nd in the country recruiting baby...WOO....suck that Kentucky!"  I'll just bet it wasnt.

If you guys were on the Titanic you'd be probably have been pissed at the watchman cause he's nothing but an "iceberg troll".

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^

It's a defense mechanism for the people incapable of objectivity. The same thing happens when UM loses out on a big time recruit, only troll is replaced with "overrated" "grade concerns" "character concerns" or "the coaches must have not really wanted them."

Wash. Rinse, Repeat.

HAIL-YEA

June 6th, 2018 at 10:19 AM ^

I don't know wtf is wrong with you lately but Bluey is a troll, has been for some time. Yes we are struggling recruiting right now and you can blame yourself for that! People like you who decided last year after the MSU loss that Harbaugh was a failure and over rated are the main reason we are struggling. Don't tell me the 8-5 record is the cause, we have had plenty of worse years in the last decade and still recruited well because the fanbase supported the team. When diehard fans are crapping on the coaching staff on sports blogs and sports radio, what is a 16 year old kid going to think?

None of this will matter after this year, either we will win the B1G east this year or too much damage will have been done and Harbaugh will have lost his window to bring the program back where we expect it to be.

mGrowOld

June 6th, 2018 at 10:29 AM ^

Let me make sure I understand your extremely will thought out and articulated points:

1. I'm responsible for the kid who i've never met, spoken to or spoken about not choosing Michigan?

2. Me expressing concern over something not going as well as hoped equates to "shitting on the program"?

3. That it's posts on a random fan blog, not the coaching staff or the team's record that determines where a kid will spend his college years?

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing anyone will say to me this week.  And that's saying a lot given I live in Ohio.

SMart WolveFan

June 7th, 2018 at 12:08 AM ^

I'm starting to think it's the implants like you, that are giving Ohioans a bad reputation on this blog.

Needless to say, the State of Mi REALLY won the trade getting guys like Schembechler, Woodson, Ryan,.....NOLAN ULIZIO!; and as a bonus you live in Cleveland :(

stephenrjking

June 6th, 2018 at 11:34 AM ^

It is possible for both things to be true. Bluey (Maizen? Possible, the inability to logically follow a reasonable point into discussion without resorting to flaming and getting personal is a big sign) can both be correct that there's an issue and a big jerk.

Inevitably, Maizen overstates or misses the issue (supposedly it was Drevno getting "outworked," but Drevno isn't around to blame anymore, so he'll move on and make something else up that he is sure is the issue). But 5* linemen aren't guys that grow on trees. You can understand one guy just not liking the school, but three guys in our backyard? That's not great. And it's not like we live in Texas or Florida--Michigan produces some talent, but not all that much, and it is vital for Michigan to capitalize on the talent that does come up here. Look no further than Harbaugh's early classes, which produced guys like Lavert Hill and Ambry Thomas and DPJ, guys that will be the backbones of any success we have this year.

But we know this already. This is an extremely high-pressure year in part because Harbaugh needs to demonstrate to the recruiting base that the program is for real. Failure this year will have long-lasting effects, especially in our division. 

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^

I'm not going to dignify the first part of your post with a response because it's not only irrelevant to this discussion but it's also quite frankly beneath me to do so. I would suggest you heed your own advice about personal insults however. 

As far as Drevno is concerned, there is a reason he isn't here anymore. Whether he was lazy, incompetent, getting outworked, or just not a good recruiter it's all the same. He failed as an OL coach and recruiter. Bredeson (Mattison), Ruiz (Partridge), and Onwenu (Wheatley) were all brought in by others on staff. But hey, at least he got us Nolan Ulizio. And there was way too much of this going:

Earlier this year the Wolverine side of Keegan was losing ground to the Buckeye side. Then Michigan began mounting its comeback in the spring behind the efforts of new offensive line coach Ed Warinner. His clear prioritization of the four-star standout has been the difference.

“I didn’t really talk to them much after the barbecue (at the Big House last summer) I attended,” Keegan explained. “And I didn’t talk to them much all the way until (Warriner was hired). Then it really started picking up and we started building a relationship more.”

And this:

But by all means believe what you want. Doesn't change the fact that this program had recruiting issues last year and appears to have them still this year.

Ziff72

June 7th, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^

Do you have any theories why or your suggestions to fix?

Harbaugh is an excellent coach who I believe works as hard as any head coach in personally recruiting guys.  Mattison, Partridge, Moore and Washington are all supposedly great recruiters.   Don Brown speaks for himself.  Warriner despite Buckeye claims appears to be recruiting well.   

I'm not panicking.  

Also it appears we have more commits in line for ratings bumps.  Mcnamara, Barnhardt etc..

AZBlue

June 6th, 2018 at 11:09 AM ^

I really miss the optimist version of MGrowOld from the RichRod days....

That said, the reason I suggested he(or she) is a troll is based on history not this one comment.  I cannot recall a single positive comment since Maizen was banned and created “Bluey”.

Also there is a difference between being hive-minded that everything is great and having distaste for the Debbie Downers who insist that everything is awful.  If someone other than Bluey (or a few select others) had posted this OR Bluey had posted this in the context of  “Gotta get on this kid and make sure 2019 does repeat itself!”, I suspect I (and others) would have reacted differently.

To circle back to the RR comment - the part I do miss from that Era was the fight for hope and “grasping for positive straws” in the threads - probably because we were so beaten down as a fanbase.  I can’t stay on the game threads for more than a few minutes anymore due to the despair or ANGAAR anytime the slightest thing goes wrong.  Maybe it’s just a sign that the “Old Michigan” and corresponding expectations are back...

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 10:03 AM ^

Actually it's a term that is commonly used by major media outlets. At least you tried.

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/124150/beware-of-awarding-lamar-jackson-the-september-heisman

https://www.theringer.com/2017/9/27/16373486/college-football-week-4-saquon-barkley-september-heisman

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/5/24/11674776/heisman-trophy-best-september-performances-candidates

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/8bddsx/who_will_be_this_years_september_heisman_winner/

 

AZBlue

June 6th, 2018 at 10:52 AM ^

Tell you what - We can revisit this kid and his status as poster child for the colossal failure that is Michigan in-state recruiting when/if he signs with another team in either 19 or 21 months.

 

if you are indeed not a Sparty troll, you are at least exemplifying everything that the RCMB uses to vilify Michigan fans in regard to recruiting being the end-all be-all of potential football success.  Try not to be “that guy”.  Am I happy that we are losing out on top rated kids in the state for the 2019 cycle? No, but I am also not claiming that this is the start of the impending doom for the program.  There are many reasons/excuses for the 2019 in-state situation.  I think we will regret losing the Athlete/DB headed to state and the OT heading to Wisconsin but am on the fence regarding Dobbs despite his ranking.

Lack of recruiting prowess has not seemed to limit the folks up in Lansing - pretty sure that haven’t beaten us in overall or avg. star ranking since at least the RichRod days.  However, if this kid represents a condemnation of Michigan what does it say for the clearly dominant in-state school during his childhood?  Is it possibly more likely that his top list indicates he wants to get away from home in college?  Or maybe that he is playing the game and knows that kids that are seen as “locks” to local (non-southern) schools often get a bit overlooked in the rankings?

i am admittedly much more of a “trust the coaches” person than you seem to be but I suggest giving the new staff members (particularly the 2 young aggressive recruiters with strong Midwest ties) some time to work on the 2020 crop of Michigan kids before declaring a failure.

I promise I will try to ignore your posts going forward and leave you to your misery.

 

PS - This kid is showing up as a 0.94 and a 4-Star on 247 to me so maybe disaster averted?

stephenrjking

June 6th, 2018 at 11:44 AM ^

Pretty typical. Has good information, but can't resist taking digs at people. This is actually one of the best responses you've made to someone contradicting you--usually you just drop the vicious personal flames (e.g. "at least you tried") and leave out the content. Here, you demonstrate persuasively that "September Heisman" is a think in college football discussion, a point I agree with and you've proven. So you don't need to dig, but you can't seem to help yourself. 

You could be an actual, appreciated contributor if you weren't so intent on throwing fireballs at everyone else to make yourself feel better. You're not stupid, but you attack others as if you're covering for an absence of intelligent things to say. 

BigBlue02

June 6th, 2018 at 10:28 PM ^

Hey, remember when you said Beilein had to retire because the game had passed him buy, got banned for shitposting over and over, then created Bluey and still do the same tired shit but now with football because everyone knows you suck as a person and know jack shit about basketball? Fuck off Maizen, just because you changed your name doesn’t mean you aren’t still the same concern-trolling asshole you’ve always been

mGrowOld

June 6th, 2018 at 12:01 PM ^

Well put.   Generally speaking I find myself agreeing conceptually with many of the points Bluey/Maizen makes and in most threads start out defending his central thesis (i.e.: Michigan losing out on top-shelf in-state OL = not good).  But at some point I have to jump off the bus when the discussion points turn personal and the resultant shit-storm occurs.

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 12:08 PM ^

As I mentioned above, it's a defense mechanism for people who lack objectivity. They immediately go to the troll/sparty well when they can't argue the points being made. What I find funny is instead of Stephen chastising the poster who called me a troll/sparty for using the innocuous term "september heisman" he saves his scolding for me for simply saying "at least you tried." The audacity of myself.

Now that's damn funny. 

Tator Salad

June 6th, 2018 at 9:47 AM ^

Pretty sure Cade McNamara will be a top 100 by the time singing day comes around based on how he's been performing at camps. Also if we have a good season this year and beat OSU then you'll see those 5* guys looking our way before signing day as well.  Just as you say, summer recruiting rankings don't mean much but that goes both ways, if we have a good-great season we might move up from 5th not down, likewise another disappointing season and we could very well drop as you suggest. 

 

Witz57

June 6th, 2018 at 10:11 PM ^

So you mention that recruiting ratings don't matter because they're like September Heismans but then you lament UM not signing any new top 100 2019 recruits.

There's room for criticism in U of M's recruiting, but playing worst of both worlds is pretty disingenuous.

RAMAC

June 6th, 2018 at 9:34 AM ^

Agree that this is concerning. Although, he left MSU off of his Top 13 as well. Easiest explanation is that he wants to get out of the state, but you would think Harbaugh & crew would be able to be at least be in consideration.

Perkis-Size Me

June 6th, 2018 at 9:44 AM ^

Not going to concern myself with a 2020 class when we've already got plenty to worry about with the 2019 class. 2020 NSD is a LONG ways away, and these issues are something that can be fixed by a good upcoming season. 

I realize that instate recruiting is important and the state of Michigan does produce its share of good prospects, particular in the Detroit Metro area. But I must be in the minority when I say that I really don't care if our whole recruiting class comes from Michigan, or if none of them come from Michigan at all. All I care about is getting the best players we can get, whether they're from Michigan, Florida, Georgia, or frickin' Mongolia. 

You think OSU fans care about Meyer not emphasizing Ohio instate recruiting as much as Tressel did, when he's reeling in the best prospects from all over the South instead? 

Bluey

June 6th, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^

Is this your excuse for losing Brown to Wisconsin, Dobbs and Barnett to MSU, Dixon likely to PSU, and Rogers likely to OSU?

There's always going to be a reason/excuse as to why someone doesn't pick Michigan. Jim Harbaugh is getting paid a lot of money for those not to matter. Furthermore, it should be beneath UM fans from making them. It's hard enough to win championships at a school whose in state talent base isn't that great to begin with. It's pretty much impossible when you stop landing the few in state kids who are big time players.