New Hoke comments, Q&A (Monday AM) on mgoblue.com

Submitted by pearlw on

The regularly scheduled weekly interview with Hoke on the Mich football website was just released a few minutes ago and has new comments on the incident. Among other things, he comments that the medical staff said "Yeah, he can go" and that he was medically cleared to go on that play. Relevant section is below:

>>>>>>

Q. What is your quarterback situation moving forward, with Saturday starter Shane Morris and Devin Gardner, who started the first four games?

A. Well, number one, we would never put a quarterback who was hurt (in there). That would never happen. As far as where we're at with it, we usually don't talk about injuries and stay away from them. But this has kind of become an issue to some degree, and Shane Morris has got a leg injury, and that's why we pulled him from the game. We'll see where he's at.

On the down where Devin's helmet came off, there was a discussion about the timeout with the referee that I wanted to take to buy him back into the game. When I talked to the referee -- because he kind of came to the sideline -- and he said, 'No.' So, a couple seconds later the line judge comes up and says, 'Now, you can buy a timeout.' But by that time, Shane was already back in the football game.

(Shane) was on the bench and (senior football athletic trainer) Paul Schmidt was looking at his leg, and (reserve quarterback) Russell (Bellomy) was there. Russell is signaling in, him and the other quarterbacks. And when Shane heard his name, the medical staff said, 'Yeah, he can go.' And he went out on the field. We'd never put a kid out there who wasn't capable. He was medically cleared to go in on that play.

 

http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092914aaa.html

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gobluebilly

September 29th, 2014 at 7:58 AM ^

There is video of all of the treatment rendered. If someone cleared him medically and communicated that to Hoke, Hoke has a justification for allowing him to play and avoid getting fired. There will be a lot of scrutiny of the medical staff.

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Don

September 29th, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^

The question is just exactly what is an appropriate test or evaluation to determine whether a player has sustained a concussion, and how long does it take. Some people assume that the very small amount of time that Schmidt had available to carry out that evaluation was sufficient, and others cite concussion protocols that require 15 minutes or more.

Who's right?

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Reader71

September 29th, 2014 at 10:47 AM ^

They are both right. A field test for concessions takes 10-20 minutes. Even then, they are not foolproof. If they are worried about concussion, they take the kid to Schembechler hall and run them through a computer program that tests their memory and speed of cognition against a baseline test that every kid takes the first week he gets there. But, Paul Schmidt can rule out a concussion because he is trained to do so and has a familiar enough relationship with the kids that he could presumably tell if nothing at all was wrong. So, if he doesn't think there is any possibility of a concussion, the kids don't take a concussion test at all. Now, he could certainly be wrong, and I was fuming yesterday that it doesn't even look like he was concerned with a possible head injury. But he's down there, and I'm up here. I can see how Schmidt might have ruled concussion out: the hit looks like helmet to shoulder pads, Morris was already wobbly on that leg, and Schmidt presumably looked into his eyes and talked to him, neither of which suggested concussion. I just hope he got it right.

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FreddieMercuryHayes

September 29th, 2014 at 8:20 AM ^

But isn't it a big deal that the coaches never even recognized the possibility of a head injury that needed to be evaluated?  The leg injury is a non-issue in this debate to me.  You can justifiably leave a guy in with a bum ankle in certain situations.  Knowing what we know now about brain injury, there are no situations where you can leave a guy with a possible brain injury in the game.  The fact that Hoke didn't recognize that possiblity after everyone else, including his OC, did is the crux of the issue.  And then Hoke never even corrected this mistake and had him evaluated after he came out, then got re-inserted.  That's bad man.  Real bad.

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iamtjeff

September 29th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^

Why do you believe Nuss thought Shane was concussed? Are you sure Nuss wasn't keeping Shane out because of the leg/ankle injury? There's so much we don't know. We have no way of knowing what information they were acting/not acting on, leg or potential concussion. There's a lot going on here.


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goblue81

September 29th, 2014 at 8:01 AM ^

Hey dumbass Hoke, you can still call a timeout before you put him in danger AGAIN.  The ball had not been snapped....

So, a couple seconds later the line judge comes up and says, 'Now, you can buy a timeout.' But by that time, Shane was already back in the football game.

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True Blue Grit

September 29th, 2014 at 8:01 AM ^

they would have pulled him a lot earlier since he was hobbling around for much of the 3rd quarter, right?  I strongly believe he should have come out much earlier in the game, not just because of the obvious leg problem but because he was completely ineffective running the offense.  But, Hoke left him in too long and Michigan got too far behind to catch up.  

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BernardC

September 29th, 2014 at 8:02 AM ^

So Hoke, After Braden held up your QB, and Nuss told him to stay down, WHY THE F DID YOU LET HIM STAY IN ANOTHER PLAY!!!  He wasn't "medically cleared" then?  And don't tell me with your OC telling the kid to stay down, and you and that same OC argueing after the game, that you didn't see what was occuring.  Everyone saw it.  We had Hayes motioning to the sideline.  Your absolute best case scenario in all this is negligence ~ and we know that's a lie.

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pearlw

September 29th, 2014 at 8:12 AM ^

Agreed. Morris should have been taken out after the hit because it wasnt clear what the injury was.

But the focus on re-entering the game should be on what the trainers communicated to Hoke and what the trainers did to assert that Morris could go back in for another play.

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ThereAndBackAgain

September 29th, 2014 at 8:13 AM ^

There are supposed to be official team doctors on the sidelines, not only medical trainers. Jeff Kutcher. A concussion specialist, is one of michigan's sideline docs, at least in theory. I didn't see Morris get much of an eval, but the team should have someone looking out for this type of scenario. Either the medical staff didn't (big problem) or Hoke didn't care (big problem).

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FreddieMercuryHayes

September 29th, 2014 at 8:14 AM ^

Are they still ignoring the possibility of a head injury?  Am I just missing this?  Isn't it just irrelevent that Morris did or did not actually have a concussion?  Isn't the issue that Morris took a shot to the head, was on the ground for a bit, was wobbly when he stood up, and he was never taken to the sideline for evaluation?  Yet in all these statements, they never even mention he was worked up for a possible head injury.  Even here, he just keeps mentioning the leg injury.  Am I missing something? 

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MaizeAndBlueWahoo

September 29th, 2014 at 8:59 AM ^

I still think their focus on the supposed leg injury is their stubborn way of signaling from inside the Fort that they don't think he had a concussion.  DB is reasonably media-savvy, and Hoke is good at stonewalling, and I'm betting they're looking a few moves ahead and seeing a lose-lose situation if they ever say the word "concussion."  

If they say "Morris was not evaluated for a concussion," obviously that would set off a shitstorm.  If they say "he was evaluated and we found no evidence of a concussion," that too would set off a shitstorm because then everyone would say they had all the evidence they needed the way he was wobbling around.  This isn't just a clumsy omission on their part - these guys are pretty calculating and these statements have no doubt been parsed a hundred thousand times before being released.

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State Street

September 29th, 2014 at 8:14 AM ^

This makes it clear that the university is trying not to acknowledge the head injury, so as not to open themselves up to future litigation.

The lawyered up statement last night, along with these clearly rehearsed answers (which Hoke still somehow bungles the fuck out of?) make it clear that we're stuck with Hoke beyond this week.

Letting him go now and apologizing would sink the University, as fucked up as that is.

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Bando Calrissian

September 29th, 2014 at 8:19 AM ^

I've read that paragraph about the exchange between Brady and the ref a couple times now, and I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

This is just bizarre. They're doubling down in the most baffling ways.

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Sons of Louis Elbel

September 29th, 2014 at 8:20 AM ^

I feel like I'm reading Pravda. Magnus, you're right that none of us knows whether Morris has a concussion. I think the point is that given the hit that he took and how wobbly he was, it was beyond negligent to not take the time to check him out, which they clearly didn't do. Utterly disgraceful.


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BlueLikeJazz

September 29th, 2014 at 8:24 AM ^

And honestly, the fact that they won't even mention the word concussion means that he has one and they are trying to hide it, or they truly didn't think of doing a protocol, and are trying to hide it.

Either way, they aren't doing their job.  This isn't that difficult.  He was clearly hurt and wobbly and had just taken a huge, illegal, vicious helmet to helmet hit.  They should've checked him out, period.

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GRFS11

September 29th, 2014 at 8:24 AM ^

I think at this point, it's just insulting to the general public, and especially to fans and alumni, to keep getting answers like this from Coach Hoke and clearly written by Brandon.  Whether he had a concussion or not, there was a VERY GOOD chance that he could have; concussion tests take more than a few minutes, and obviously weren't done.  That's on the head coach and athletic director for failing to have procedures in place that the team actually follows.

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MGolem

September 29th, 2014 at 8:30 AM ^

Because that is what someone who truly loves Michigan would do. He is driving this program into the ground with his incompetence. Even if he somehow, someway, gets a pass for the potential head injury bungle, the product he is putting on the field is unacceptable.

Why is Kansas doing a better job of recognizing unacceptable than we are?

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LSAClassOf2000

September 29th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^

One thing that seems apparent to me now is that this is something they - meaning the athletic department - really needed to get in front of pretty much from the moment ESPN started making mention of what was going on. Even if it turns out that there was no head injury at this point, the question remains about what was at best a vague initial response of "I don't know". There really needed to be a careful, considered recounting of events right then and there to blunt the controversy, if that's what they wanted to do (it would be impossible to stop totally).

Even if it is a leg injury and not a concussion, I would agree with others that Morris was hurting a lot long before he came out for good, even to a point where it seemed where he was having difficulty even putting weight on it and yet he was still in the game. I suppose my question there would be this - "what is the threshhold where you pull the plug to avoid further injury?" I would be curious to know what the reply would be because while I don't think Hoke would intentionally devalue safety, it didn't seem like it was being fully maintained at all points. I could be way off here, but that's what I thought I saw.

 

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MaizieGoBlue

September 29th, 2014 at 8:37 AM ^

Shane took the hit and played the very next play. how did he get any medical attention? Evan if he was fine, he took a snap without being evaluated first. this is a joke, and Brandon is delusional thinking we're gonna keep buying his bullshit. I call for a donation boycott until this is corrected. No athletic, academic, band, anything. If you want Brandon gone, hit the whole program to drive the point across.

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GoBlueNorth

September 29th, 2014 at 8:38 AM ^

Now that we know the Shane was medically cleared to go back into the game

1) Does the NCAA also use the SCAT-2 testing for sideline assessment of concussions (used by the NFL)

2) I've Googled the test and it looks like it takes 15-20 minutes to complete

I've reviewed the sequence tape and these are my observations.  To be generous I calculated the time that Shane Morris actually stepped off of the field until he left the bench to take the snap for Gardner......elapsed time 1 minute and 33 seconds.   I've tried to link the SCAT-2 assesment tool......there is no way you complete this assessment in that amount of time

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2014/02/20/0ap2000000327062.pdf

Forgive me if the link doesn't work 

If any of you have expertise in the field of concussion assessment I was hoping you could share your knowledge.  Thanks

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nyc_wolverines

September 29th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^

Some folks say ... "Morris was injured"

Some folks say ... "Issue is Morris should have been checked we can't assume status"

 

Both of these views stem from same vicious hit TO THE HEAD that we all saw that produced an UNSTABLE player.

 

Regardless of where you fall you on the spectrum, TAPE OF HIT & AFTERMATH SHOWS THE PROOF.

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bacon

September 29th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^

Come on Hoke. Admit that it was a bad idea to put him in and stop making excuses. It was a bad idea, doesn't matter if you didn't know, it was a bad idea. You saved a timeout, but it was the wrong thing to do. Be a leader and show some accountablitity for your actions. Maybe the players will learn from that more than anything else.

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Bando Calrissian

September 29th, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^

Listening to WTKA right now, heads in the sand all around.

"I didn't see anything that said he was concussed."

"I have full faith in Paul Schmidt and the athletic trainers."

"Maybe they'll rally around him if his ankle is shot."

What.

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