NCAA: Yea, we make this $hit up as we go

Submitted by PlayByPlay on January 23rd, 2013 at 2:12 PM

In this round of "Wheel of Sanctions," it appears the NCAA has decided to take a greater hit to its credibility, by putting Nevin Shapiro on its payroll in the case against Miami (YTM). This is an unbelievable thing for an investigating body to do, and reaks of conflict of interest.

It looks like they may be starting the ENTIRE Miami investigation over because of tainted information, and in my opinion, Miami has every right to tell the NCAA to GTFO since they have already self imposed 2 years of bowl bans and put their football program through enough bad publicity.

Also, it looks like the NCAA is now investigating ITSELF, which is hilarious in its own way.

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January 23rd, 2013 at 2:17 PM ^

NCAA is a joke.  Let's start our own association!

The Collegiate National Association of College Athletics

Sounds perfect.

edited for Derp! and spelling


January 23rd, 2013 at 2:29 PM ^

we have this, the McNair (USC assistant coach) case, and the Shabazz Muhammad case at UCLA (where the NCAA allegedly decided what they were going to decide beforehand).


Nice "police force" the NCAA has these days.  What a zoo.


January 23rd, 2013 at 2:32 PM ^

with the $s for Ss? I don't like it. It makes me think of those annoying people who write "O$U" all the time.


And yes, the NCAA sucks.


January 23rd, 2013 at 2:34 PM ^

"Former NCAA enforcement staff members worked with the criminal defense attorney for Nevin Shapiro to improperly obtain information for the purposes of the NCAA investigation through a bankruptcy proceeding that did not involve the NCAA."

So, they gathered all this potentially beautiful evidence with which they might have been able to decimate Miami and/or select personnel that they in fact cannot use now. Way to go, NCAA. I wonder if Miami is thinking to itself, "That's a great case that you no longer have...good luck with that."



January 23rd, 2013 at 3:16 PM ^

i'm i'm comprehending this correctly, the article states that they gained the information through a bankruptcy deposition, which as bankruptcy has nothing to do with NCAA athletics they would not have been privy too during the normal course of an investigation.  i.e. basically a person never has to actually "talk" to the NCAA as they cant enforce a legal action/penalty such as perjury on anyone but they learned of these transgressions by sitting in on a real honest to god legal preceeding.    


January 23rd, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^

that I giggled a little at the article title on the ESPN frontpage?

"Miami allegations to wait as NCAA probes itself"

I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would love the NCAA to go "probe" themselves


January 23rd, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^

Not at all.  Thank you for pointing that out.  Can't stop laughing and it made my day.  I really hope that is some editor just having fun as opposed to someone who is oblivious to how silly it sounds. But it is ESPN, so I bet it is the latter.


January 23rd, 2013 at 2:47 PM ^

RE: the sanctions Miami has imposed on itself.  The bowl bans are pretty steep, and while the NCAA has been busy tripping over itself, the U actually got something done.

Strange days we live in when MIAMI shows more integrity and efficiency than the governing body of collegiate sports.  Not saying they are perfect, but Jesus NCAA . . .


January 23rd, 2013 at 3:27 PM ^

Miami should get away with years of rampant rule breaking just because of a technicality?? No one really believes Miami is innocent in all of this.


January 23rd, 2013 at 3:11 PM ^

When I read the article i thought that the NCAA actually found some actual evidence of wrong doing and when they realized that this might....just might...require them to actually do something they shit themselves.  

They remind me of Sargent Shultz of the old Hogan's Hero's TV show.  


January 23rd, 2013 at 4:05 PM ^

Because their agents reviewed too much information. Apparently they were just suppose to ignore that under oath deposition.

They might as well just admit they have no power to investigate anything and let program run amok since that is essentially what is happening anyway.


January 23rd, 2013 at 4:40 PM ^

They only got that information by feeding the bankruptcy lawyer questions to ask. Does it prove Miami is innocent? Of course not. And yes, the NCAA could still use any info they got through any means, because they aren't a court of law. Problem is, if they punished Miami this way, their lawyers would (I'm guessing here) destroy the NCAA in the appeals process. [internet lawyer hat, removed]


January 23rd, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^

This will decrease the penalties, but it won't eliminate them. Some of the iformation on the football program for example came from players such as Teddy Bridgewater, who will not be doing Miami any favours.  Can't see Miami getting of free as everyone remembers Paul Dee's hypocritical "high profile players recquire high profile complaince statement" all the while Miami was supplying their players with rims, strippers, hookers, and money for an abortion among other things".


January 23rd, 2013 at 5:10 PM ^

It was pretty clear from the start the ncaa was looking to make an example out of Miami for a future deterent, and most likely, rightfully so. The ridiculous letter stating "if you don't talk, we're assuming you're guilty" proved that point.

My guess is this will keep Miami from getting another bowl ban. They will probably still get scholarship hits, just maybe not as prolonged as previously thought.

And don't hate on Miami just because their illegal recruiting resources (hookers, rims, abortions, as you eloquently put) are better than what middle of nowhere state school towns can throw at recruits.


January 23rd, 2013 at 5:40 PM ^

My point is that Miami went so far over the line that they can't get off free.  If they had committed a couple of minor infractions I think they would get off.  

One of the best tweets I've ever read was by Garry Parrish after Baylor got hit for some phone calls to recruits.  

"If Baylor ever wants to advance past the Elite Eight it's gonna have to step its rules-violations game up. Phone calls only get you so far."


January 23rd, 2013 at 11:24 PM ^

No, I agree. Miami will get hit with scholarships at this point. I think before this came down it was going to be 5/year for 3 years, with the outside chance at another bowl ban. Now, I think 3-4/year for 2-3 years, I can't decide. But definitely no additional bowl ban.

Even if Miami somehow "skates," they wouldn't be getting off free. They banned themselves from two bowl games, and suspended a bunch of players last year. What worked in their favor was the fact they sucked already. Self sanctioning a Sun Bowl and a Russell Athletic Bowl doesn't make for the best trophy hunters when it comes to bloodlust for the rest of the country.


January 23rd, 2013 at 4:17 PM ^

I have been seeing a lot of criticism regarding the NCAA.  So, is there any proposition as to how they should conduct themselves differently?  Would we be better off not affiliated with the NCAA?  And, if so, how would that work?  I'm not saying I support the NCAA or that I don't, it's just I see a lot of criticism but not many suggestions.  What's the alternative?  I had this argument with a family member over Christmas and the only thing I could come up with is I wasn't ready to see college players payed and I thought their compensation was enough.  She thought college players should be not considered students and more like staff, but limited this to football and basketball.  Maybe this is outside the scope of this thread, but I'm just sort of curious what the alternative is or what are ways the NCAA could improve?


January 23rd, 2013 at 8:39 PM ^

Yeah, I think we'd be better off without the NCAA. I don't think it's going to happen, but it should and it could. You'd need someone supremely talented to make it his crusade to change the NCAA. He'd have to hold rallies across the country on campuses screaming about how these atheletes make zillions for there universities, but the universities don't pay them anything. He'd have to wage a relentless media war against the NCAA, making them the villains and the athletes the victims. Shame is the only thing that could work, I think. The universities are dependent on the federal government, and if the voters en masse pushed the federal government to attack the NCAA as a guilty, shameful institution that exploited under-privileged athletes, then maybe, just maybe, you'd get successful reform.

What would that look like? The ideal situation would be to let the schools and conferences do whatever they like. The B1G is still the B1G, but it sets whatever rules it likes, and each school does whatever it likes. SEC does what SEC likes. You'd see a ginormous variance over the first few years as it got all sorted out. But pretty soon there'd be some sort of conformity. Conferences would settle on rules. There'd be some dang interesting bowl games during those first few years as conference champions from unlimited pay leagues play conference champions from tuition-tied salary-cap leagues. Some double-dog-dang interesting scheduling decisions as some schools would refuse to play other schools that overpaid or carried rosters of 500. It would be messy. There would be mistakes. But it'd be a whole lot of fun, the kids who deserve it would get paid, and everyone would feast on good karma from the best piece of educating ever associated with the NCAA, namely, the lesson that corrupt, tyrannical organizations get destroyed.

Honestly, the more you think about the NCAA, what it has done, what it stands for, and what it's really teaching kids, the more you realize that it couldn't get much worse.


January 23rd, 2013 at 4:57 PM ^

Explain to me the conflict of interest in the case.  NCAA receives a bill from Scumbag Debtor’s lawyer for having asked questions that benefited the NCAA at a bankruptcy proceeding.  Assuming that there was even a client/attorney relationship between the lawyer and the NCAA (she could have been sending a bill because she is delusional), I can see the issue with retaining counsel in a bankruptcy case to ask questions while at the same time that counsel also represents the debtor.  That’s a potential conflict, but one more centered on the lawyer who is dumb enough to take on both clients than the NCAA who asked for the arrangement.  It seems more dumb-verging-on-shady on the NCAA's part than fraudulent (and I'd be more worried for the lawyer who thought she could represent both clients at the same time).  Is the more abhorrent conflict the fact that the NCAA might have paid the legal bills in an unrelated legal proceeding for the accuser in the investigation, giving the accuser the incentive to sing whatever song the NCAA wants him to sing?  That sounds more serious.     

And as for gathering and using information from a bankruptcy proceeding, what would have stopped the NCAA from hiring some non-conflicted lawyer to either (i) sit in on the deposition/2004 exam/341 meeting, or (ii) even ask questions at that meeting?  Isn’t bankruptcy essentially a public process?  I can sit in on a day's worth of 341 meetings and find out all sorts of awesome stuff about people's financial lives.  Worse comes to worse, counsel for the debtor (if they are awake…which isn’t always the case) could have asked the NCAA “And how are you a creditor in this case and/or entitled to ask questions here again?”.  But if I remember correctly, 2004 exams, 341 hearings and the like are open to all “parties in interest” which is pretty damn vague.  Someone who knows this stuff better than me fill me in on what I'm obviously missing.     

(God…I just defended the NCAA.  Must.  Wash.  Hands….) 


January 23rd, 2013 at 6:58 PM ^

generally one of two problems will lead to keep statements from being used.   one is where a 'state actor', meaning a law enforcement agency, violates somebody's constitutional rights and seizes evidence improperly.   example would be if officer friendly turns out to be not-so-friendly and puts a gun to your head and says 'tell me where the guy is who shot at my partner'.   violates a whole bunch of due process rights, etc.   don't ask me how i came up with this example.  bottom line is that the ncaa isn't a 'state actor' in the constitutional sense.  so no suppression there.

the second way to basically claw back a statement/evidence like that is if it is somehow seized in violation of clear privilege, for instance someone taking a doctor's files or maybe an attorney's notes for a given case.   in those instances you might be able to put the genie back in the bottle and prohibit anyone from using the statements/evidence.   bottom line on this scenario as you pointed out is that a 341 hearing (debtors hearing) is open to the public and anybody has a right to be there.  so, no improper seizing of evidence there, either.  

maybe there is some alternative way that hasn't occured to me, but i think this covers it.


January 23rd, 2013 at 5:24 PM ^

Won't improve until it in its entirety is closely observed by a judicial system that holds it accountable for the decisions it makes. Currently they have nothing as far as subpoena power, and they basicly work off of goodfaith with the universities. This alows for dishonest schools to sweep a lot of dirt under the rug as long as someone doesn't blow the horn. This causes wrongful disciplinary actions that result in millions of dollars lost or gained under faulty information, to a "case by case" basis. That in itself should amount to lawsuites, not just for the money lost/gained, but to make some noise that the NCAA needs some serious reform.